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On August 05 2012 02:56 Seuss wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2012 02:41 Ryuu314 wrote:On August 05 2012 02:37 Seuss wrote:On August 05 2012 02:12 TheYango wrote:On August 05 2012 02:05 Seuss wrote:
The fundamental problem for Rammus at this point is that if you level your W first to clear faster your Taunt only lasts 1 second. Even though you'll be practically immortal in mid-game team fights with max W, that's not very useful if no one bothers to fight you. It might work, but it's a major playstyle shift and would probably require building more like a bruiser than the tanky-cc support jungler people tend to look for. TBH not enough people really played around with Q-max on Rammus. It actually offers a good balance between clearing speed and gank strength (50 damage per rank is pretty aggressive scaling for both jungling and for ganking, as well as the increased slow %). I haven't played that much Rammus recently, but from what I tried, it felt reasonably smooth. The drawback is that you don't have higher Taunt or DBC ranks for midgame fights, but trying to tune the number of ranks you get of Powerball (somewhere like 2-4) could work out reasonably. The other drawback is that rank 5 Q costs almost three times as much mana as any rank of W. While the damage is frontloaded, it isn't significantly more than rank 5 W, and against creeps that hit you 5 times instead of 4 it's actually less once you have 50 armor or more. Still, it's pretty odd that you don't see many Rammus/Sejuani/Cho'gath jungle picks in the higher Elos considering they're next up on the tanky-cc support chain when Alistar, Nautilus, and Malphite are banned. Maybe old-style Rammus is bad/wouldn't work, but no one's really even bothering to figure out something that would. Rammus gets counter jungled really darn hard. He's extremely weak in the early game and unless you pick him up after the enemy team grabs their jungler you run the risk of running into a bad jungle matchup. Sejuani has super slow clear first few levels. She can insta-clear small camps after a while, but even when fed, it's kinda hard to carry with her. Cho'gath I think should see more play now imo. I think it was HSGG who said that Cho was good except for the unreliability of his cast times. Since Riot normalized his cast times he might see more play now? A lot of Rammus' early weakness was because he forsook both defenses and clear speed for his CC, and also because at the time of his nerfs the popular junglers were mostly fast-clearing super farmers like Shyvana, Udyr, and the like. While people stuck in that mindset might be avoiding him for that reason, someone experimenting along either of the lines of inquiry TheYango and I have discussed wouldn't necessarily have those same issues. In my experience the problem with Sejuani's early clear isn't speed so much as survivability. She can't really start boots and clear safely without a very significant leash. Her actual clear time isn't super slow. Sejuani's probably not popular because of that survivability issue and because it's hard for people to get over how much better Nautilus is before late-game. Cho'gath is definitely the most likely to become popular, especially since he was buffed. Maokai isn't super popular because he's only as good late-game as your ability to intelligently place his ultimate. His initiation is also very suicidal, and if your team decides "nope" you're screwed and everyone calls you a bad Maokai and reports you after the game for being terrible/trolling/etc.
I'd imagine that a Rammus maxing Q or leveling Q and W equally would probably do much better than the old taunt max Rammus, but you'd run into mana issues if you don't hog blue.
Honestly, I don't think Naut is really that much better than Sej. He's definitely better, but tbh I feel like people are underestimating how strong Sejuani's ganks can be especially with her ultimate up. I don't like her simply because her early levels of her W is so low damage is almost neglible (12-18 damage a second). This results in her having to tank buff camps far longer than she should and thus getting really low.
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On August 05 2012 02:45 Ryuu314 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2012 02:44 Hakanfrog wrote:
Fuck riot so dumb, why don´t they just buff the other supports instead of nerfing Janna and Soraka in every fucking patch? Every single support in the game except Leona has been nerfed significantly since their inception. To just clarify, every single support (cept Leona) has been fucking broken at some point another. It just so happens that Janna has avoided the ban hammer for a while and it's finally her turn. Soraka is just a problematic kit.
Well maybe supports could stand to be a little stronger? You could probablly buff Taric and Sona quite a bit before they would even be close to viable as any other role, I personally wish that supports could have a bigger impact on the game than they currently do. Alistar and Janna are examples of supports which can have a huge impact in teamfights with very few items, maybe other supports should be the same. Aslong as they have relatively low ratios they won´t be broken as other roles.
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Sona's poke is still pretty good I feel, you just couldn't take off half the ad's hp with Q + chord at lvl1. Taric still does his thing of stun + burst in yo face, he just doesn't heal very well. Sona and Taric both have great impacts in a team fight with their ults.
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On August 05 2012 03:44 Hakanfrog wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2012 02:45 Ryuu314 wrote:On August 05 2012 02:44 Hakanfrog wrote:
Fuck riot so dumb, why don´t they just buff the other supports instead of nerfing Janna and Soraka in every fucking patch? Every single support in the game except Leona has been nerfed significantly since their inception. To just clarify, every single support (cept Leona) has been fucking broken at some point another. It just so happens that Janna has avoided the ban hammer for a while and it's finally her turn. Soraka is just a problematic kit. Well maybe supports could stand to be a little stronger? You could probablly buff Taric and Sona quite a bit before they would even be close to viable as any other role, I personally wish that supports could have a bigger impact on the game than they currently do. Alistar and Janna are examples of supports which can have a huge impact in teamfights with very few items, maybe other supports should be the same. Aslong as they have relatively low ratios they won´t be broken as other roles.
Sona has been nerfed quite significantly lately and for good reason. I don't know if you remember, but not too long ago Sona was first pick in every single tourney game. Her versatility is through the roof with her auras+power chords. That being said I do think she's been a little overnerfed. Sona's kit is hard to balance though since it's so damn versatile.
Taric is a very niche support. He's good when you want a good middle ground between a sustain-y support and an aggressive lane. His armor aura's also extremely powerful in certain situations. Taric's ulti/stun/heal are very binary, but in general he's not a bad pick, just situational.
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Just played sona, got chalice after 2 gp10's, felt very strong, never had mana problem rest of the game~, easily worth the 900 gold on it imo
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Yea not to long ago sona/graves was the best bot lane by far.
That power cord hit like a mother fucker and graves is graves,they nerfed him as well since than tho.
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On August 05 2012 03:54 Ryuu314 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2012 03:44 Hakanfrog wrote:On August 05 2012 02:45 Ryuu314 wrote:On August 05 2012 02:44 Hakanfrog wrote:
Fuck riot so dumb, why don´t they just buff the other supports instead of nerfing Janna and Soraka in every fucking patch? Every single support in the game except Leona has been nerfed significantly since their inception. To just clarify, every single support (cept Leona) has been fucking broken at some point another. It just so happens that Janna has avoided the ban hammer for a while and it's finally her turn. Soraka is just a problematic kit. Well maybe supports could stand to be a little stronger? You could probablly buff Taric and Sona quite a bit before they would even be close to viable as any other role, I personally wish that supports could have a bigger impact on the game than they currently do. Alistar and Janna are examples of supports which can have a huge impact in teamfights with very few items, maybe other supports should be the same. Aslong as they have relatively low ratios they won´t be broken as other roles. Sona has been nerfed quite significantly lately and for good reason. I don't know if you remember, but not too long ago Sona was first pick in every single tourney game. Her versatility is through the roof with her auras+power chords. That being said I do think she's been a little overnerfed. Sona's kit is hard to balance though since it's so damn versatile. Taric is a very niche support. He's good when you want a good middle ground between a sustain-y support and an aggressive lane. His armor aura's also extremely powerful in certain situations. Taric's ulti/stun/heal are very binary, but in general he's not a bad pick, just situational.
Taric has like the highest winrate right now for supports. He absolutely crushes the lane.
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sejuani's ganks at lvl 3 or 4 are also beastly. just autoattacking after your skills are on cd is often enough to land a kill. and, of course, at 6 you have to fail pretty bad not to get a kill.
i find sejuani really interesting, there is a lot of ways she can make clutch plays. i think she would be amazing in a tournament setting, but in solo que i either snowball into an unkillable cc machine if my team can do enough damage to get kills, or they dont and we lose. i go w-q-w-e then max e first. if you are on the fence regarding her i highly recomended you give her a try.
the thing that really makes her stand out in my eyes is that you decide when a fight will happen. you have enough cc and q for escape that dying is really the players fault. sejuani is top 3 of my ranked champs in kda ratio. at some point in the game your teammates will have to come through, which isnt always the case, and is why i dont play her much anymore at low elo.
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Disclaimer: I jungle one out of maybe one hundred games.
My limited experience with Sejuani is that she is very, VERY blue dependent. If she has blue, her jungling speed is pretty good just by spamming W and E. Otherwise it's pretty sad. Also her W's cooldown is too high; I wish it was a toggle ability.
Amumu has similar problems, but Amumu has much higher damage (his E is crazy), has a defensive passive, and has a stronger ultimate...
Sejuani's lvl 4 gank is pretty crazy. She does a lot of burst... I fell victim to her quite a few times.
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On August 05 2012 04:19 Sufficiency wrote:
Disclaimer: I jungle one out of maybe one hundred games.
My limited experience with Sejuani is that she is very, VERY blue dependent. If she has blue, her jungling speed is pretty good just by spamming W and E. Otherwise it's pretty sad. Also her W's cooldown is too high; I wish it was a toggle ability.
Amumu has similar problems, but Amumu has much higher damage (his E is crazy), has a defensive passive, and has a stronger ultimate...
Sejuani's lvl 4 gank is pretty crazy. She does a lot of burst... I fell victim to her quite a few times.
the first blue is important (imo not as important as it is for mumu). after the first one tho a philo is often enough sustain, it just means you wont insta clear with a q-w-e combo, you will be restricted to a q-w or just w. people realize that w does double damage to targets u hit with q or an auto right? just turn on w and auto all the creeps and they will die quick.
mumu's ult is amazing... but then sejuani's is also amazing. it is extremely long range, has a larger aoe then it probably should, and can travel over walls. being able to stun someone over a wall and then q through the wall is very powerful. i like picking people off that overextend and sejuani absolutely excels at that.
sejuani is extremely underrated. when you have 4.5k health, randuins, fon, and fh it is just comical how much you can tank... all while your w is ticking for 200+ on squishies.
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i don't think any of the common supports need buffs to their skills right now, and i don't know why anyone would think they do. Their skills are actually brokenly powerful, that's why they can start with a fairy charm and gp10 quints and fight people in lane, then get almost no items and the least xp of anyone on the team and still be relevant late game. Think about how ridiculous your base abilities have to be for that to happen.
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On August 05 2012 03:44 Hakanfrog wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2012 02:45 Ryuu314 wrote:On August 05 2012 02:44 Hakanfrog wrote:
Fuck riot so dumb, why don´t they just buff the other supports instead of nerfing Janna and Soraka in every fucking patch? Every single support in the game except Leona has been nerfed significantly since their inception. To just clarify, every single support (cept Leona) has been fucking broken at some point another. It just so happens that Janna has avoided the ban hammer for a while and it's finally her turn. Soraka is just a problematic kit. Well maybe supports could stand to be a little stronger? You could probablly buff Taric and Sona quite a bit before they would even be close to viable as any other role, I personally wish that supports could have a bigger impact on the game than they currently do. Alistar and Janna are examples of supports which can have a huge impact in teamfights with very few items, maybe other supports should be the same. Aslong as they have relatively low ratios they won´t be broken as other roles.
if you buff taric too much then he's going to be a monster top laner, just so you know. He already is a pretty strong top laner, tbh. Also, i'm kinda confused at what your problem is. Atm, I think the supports, for the most part, are in pretty good places. Sona, taric, alistar, janna, blitz and soraka feel equally good given different circumstances. All of the above are also really potent forces in teamfights, so again, I don't get why you want to powercreep supports.
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Lol, still think Finales Funkeln sounds cooler but at least Final Spark is the same thing.
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On August 05 2012 04:27 UniversalSnip wrote:
i don't think any of the common supports need buffs to their skills right now, and i don't know why anyone would think they do. Their skills are actually brokenly powerful, that's why they can start with a fairy charm and gp10 quints and fight people in lane, then get almost no items and the least xp of anyone on the team and still be relevant late game. Think about how ridiculous your base abilities have to be for that to happen.
Pretty much this.
I probably talked about this before but I realized it watching Shurelia play. She plays Leona mid, takes almost no CS at all while laning, and just go around roaming and ganks like crazy because Leona's kit has so much CC that she doesn't need farm nor items.
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Incoming legendary Marisa skin!!!!!!!
They should let ZUN draw the portrait for it ^^
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On August 05 2012 04:36 IMoperator wrote:Lol, still think Finales Funkeln sounds cooler but at least Final Spark is the same thing.
Technically Finales Funkeln=Final Sparkle 
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On August 05 2012 04:37 Antyee wrote:Incoming legendary Marisa skin!!!!!!! They should let ZUN draw the portrait for it ^^
That might have happened if Shurelia still worked at Riot.
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Finales Funkeln will become my "bluepill."
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Why don't we just call it "Master Spark"
And also release a new legendary loli lux skin with frills everywhere and a terrible portrait art
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EPT
