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On August 05 2012 05:32 De4ngus wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2012 05:28 Vaporized wrote:On August 05 2012 05:23 TheYango wrote:On August 05 2012 05:20 Vaporized wrote:
also, i made the thread for her here i believe and said that frozen mallet was my first item after hog and philo and merc treads and people said that was stupid and redundant. i looked on solomid and there is 1 approved and 1 featured guide and they both list frozen mallet as core. i dont know the numbers on how her passive stacks with frozen mallet. i do know an autoattack makes the other dude go super slow lol. The diminshing returns on stacking slows are really shitty. CDR is absolutely the prime stat for Sejuani in terms of her in-fight effectiveness, so I'm pretty sure the only item I would get that forgoes CDR would be Aegis. yeah alright. i mained sejuani for 2 months when she came out. she is my 3rd most played champ, with top 3 kda ratio. the 2k dudes that made the guides on solomid agree. frozen mallet is very, very good on her. even if the slow only stacks up to like 30% that is significant, and makes 1 attack a peel or an instant lockdown, instead of 10% which is not inescapable. the whole reason i play sejuani is to lock people down. sure it is possible to do that without a frozen mallet. with a frozen mallet you get 25 minute surrenders and people qq'ing about cc. not to mention your w scales with hp so you are making your kit inarguably better in 2 ways by buying a frozen mallet. lmao frozen mallet sejuani. o wait first item mallet even better LOL.
constructive and insightful.
people said i was wrong 6 months ago when i made that thread. and as it turns out much better people then me build frozen mallet as core also. i honestly dont care if anyone here thinks it is good on her. one thing ive learned about this forum is that people are always 100% sure they are correct, even about things they have no idea about.
i looked into the math also, the frozen mallet slow is applied first, and then your passive slow is applied multiplicatively. so you are getting a greater then 40% slow when you buy frozen mallet. i thought maybe they stacked in a way that reduced the effectiveness of the frozen mallet slow (to lower then 40%), but that is not the case.
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United States47024 Posts
On August 05 2012 05:49 Vaporized wrote:
i looked into the math also, the frozen mallet slow is applied first, and then your passive slow is applied multiplicatively. so you are getting a greater then 40% slow when you buy frozen mallet. i thought maybe they stacked in a way that reduced the effectiveness of the frozen mallet slow (to lower then 40%), but that is not the case.
It reduces the effectiveness of your 10% slow down to 3.5%. Then when you press E, it reduces the mallet slow from 40% down to 14%.
Practically speaking, it just means that the Mallet slow is basically doing nothing during your E uptime because the E slow % is so high that any additional slow % beyond that is pretty much superfluous. I'd rather just increase the uptime on my E than pay money for a 40% slow that is doing almost nothing at all in scenarios involving my E.
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i'm fairly new to LoL, and I'm having trouble getting actually kills. I'll get 15 assists and 1 kill in some games..
Any suggestions for heros that are easy to get kills with? Also a noob should I be playing ranged characters since they're easier in lanes? What are some top tier hero's that would be a good choice to buy?
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Doesn't matter. Got kills.
The thing I don't get though is how you have a 3.0 kda as sejuani. Unless you're saving your E and R to burst people down, she doesn't seem bursty enough to get kills.
On August 05 2012 05:55 xOny wrote:
i'm fairly new to LoL, and I'm having trouble getting actually kills. I'll get 15 assists and 1 kill in some games..
Any suggestions for heros that are easy to get kills with? Also a noob should I be playing ranged characters since they're easier in lanes? What are some top tier hero's that would be a good choice to buy?
Go to the search and type in newb for the league subforum.
All champs are fine. The cheap ones are good. Ranged are easier to lane with. Try to save your burst if you really want to get the kill on your team.
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On August 05 2012 05:55 xOny wrote:
i'm fairly new to LoL, and I'm having trouble getting actually kills. I'll get 15 assists and 1 kill in some games..
Any suggestions for heros that are easy to get kills with? Also a noob should I be playing ranged characters since they're easier in lanes? What are some top tier hero's that would be a good choice to buy?
click on the hero more
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On August 05 2012 05:53 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2012 05:49 Vaporized wrote:
i looked into the math also, the frozen mallet slow is applied first, and then your passive slow is applied multiplicatively. so you are getting a greater then 40% slow when you buy frozen mallet. i thought maybe they stacked in a way that reduced the effectiveness of the frozen mallet slow (to lower then 40%), but that is not the case. It reduces the effectiveness of your 10% slow down to 3.5%. Then when you press E, it reduces the mallet slow from 40% down to 14%. Practically speaking, it just means that the Mallet slow is basically doing nothing during your E uptime because the E slow % is so high that any additional slow % beyond that is pretty much superfluous. I'd rather just increase the uptime on my E than pay money for a 40% slow that is doing almost nothing at all in scenarios involving my E.
the thing is, the 43.5% slow is from an AUTO, this is often enough to keep someone in range of your carries so that you can save your e for when you need a gap close... you q back onto them and then e and they are done. this is extremely effective. not to mention those moments when someone jumps on your carry and you have no cd's up. you just auto and suddenly they are insta peeled. you cant do this without frozen mallet. basically having a frozen mallet means very close to 100% of the time it will be impossible to escape once you auto someone 1 time. this is ridiculous. ive had absurd chases where people are flashing over walls etc and i still stay on them. it is so fun and the other team often gets very frustrated.
basically i think of frozen mallet as completing her kit. when i got sejuani i wanted a cc bot as i enjoyed playing those characters in mmo's (which LoL strongly resembles in class archetypes). she does nothing else basically. with a frozen mallet you absolutely achieve insane cc bot status. without it, it is possible in between cooldowns to escape, but with one... well people rarely escape lets just say that.
maybe this isnt for everyone. it works for me and apparently the dudes who wrote those guides.
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On August 05 2012 05:55 xOny wrote:
i'm fairly new to LoL, and I'm having trouble getting actually kills. I'll get 15 assists and 1 kill in some games..
Any suggestions for heros that are easy to get kills with? Also a noob should I be playing ranged characters since they're easier in lanes? What are some top tier hero's that would be a good choice to buy?
I think a lot of it also depends on how teams are doing.
If you are only getting assists as the ad and are not dying then your team is probably streamrolling fights with ap mids/tops bursting everything down. Thats fine. your team is winning is good.
If your not getting kills and dying a lot the problem might be your positioning or lack of protection from teammates.
Plus sometimes you just get unlucky and that soraka banana gets the kill in between your 400 dmg crits :p
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United States47024 Posts
On August 05 2012 06:12 Vaporized wrote:
basically i think of frozen mallet as completing her kit. when i got sejuani i wanted a cc bot as i enjoyed playing those characters in mmo's (which LoL strongly resembles in class archetypes). she does nothing else basically. with a frozen mallet you absolutely achieve insane cc bot status. without it, it is possible in between cooldowns to escape, but with one... well people rarely escape lets just say that.
That's the thing, there is no "between cooldowns" at 40% CDR. You have consecutive 6 second CDs that apply 3 second slows.
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From personal experience, Sejuani sets up instant burst way too well to want an item like Frozen Mallet that shines in drawn out fights. But then I'm also incredibly biased towards aura items or items with actives on tanky support champions.
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On August 05 2012 06:12 Vaporized wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2012 05:53 TheYango wrote:On August 05 2012 05:49 Vaporized wrote:
i looked into the math also, the frozen mallet slow is applied first, and then your passive slow is applied multiplicatively. so you are getting a greater then 40% slow when you buy frozen mallet. i thought maybe they stacked in a way that reduced the effectiveness of the frozen mallet slow (to lower then 40%), but that is not the case. It reduces the effectiveness of your 10% slow down to 3.5%. Then when you press E, it reduces the mallet slow from 40% down to 14%. Practically speaking, it just means that the Mallet slow is basically doing nothing during your E uptime because the E slow % is so high that any additional slow % beyond that is pretty much superfluous. I'd rather just increase the uptime on my E than pay money for a 40% slow that is doing almost nothing at all in scenarios involving my E. the thing is, the 43.5% slow is from an AUTO, this is often enough to keep someone in range of your carries so that you can save your e for when you need a gap close... you q back onto them and then e and they are done. this is extremely effective. not to mention those moments when someone jumps on your carry and you have no cd's up. you just auto and suddenly they are insta peeled. you cant do this without frozen mallet. basically having a frozen mallet means very close to 100% of the time it will be impossible to escape once you auto someone 1 time. this is ridiculous. ive had absurd chases where people are flashing over walls etc and i still stay on them. it is so fun and the other team often gets very frustrated. basically i think of frozen mallet as completing her kit. when i got sejuani i wanted a cc bot as i enjoyed playing those characters in mmo's (which LoL strongly resembles in class archetypes). she does nothing else basically. with a frozen mallet you absolutely achieve insane cc bot status. without it, it is possible in between cooldowns to escape, but with one... well people rarely escape lets just say that. maybe this isnt for everyone. it works for me and apparently the dudes who wrote those guides.
The only featured Sejuani guide on solomid does barely advocate frozen mallet as core, only as viable item to complete your build. You were talking about a guide saying you should rush it, where is that guide? Also where are the guides that advocates getting atma's impaler which you also think was a good choice?
Mostly everyone here agrees that last whisper is core on ad carry, I don't think anyone believe it should be your first big item. There is a fine line between saying a item is core and getting it first.
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Next thing he's going to tell us, is that rylais is the item after frozen mallet to get, as well, right?
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On August 05 2012 05:28 Vaporized wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2012 05:23 TheYango wrote:On August 05 2012 05:20 Vaporized wrote:
also, i made the thread for her here i believe and said that frozen mallet was my first item after hog and philo and merc treads and people said that was stupid and redundant. i looked on solomid and there is 1 approved and 1 featured guide and they both list frozen mallet as core. i dont know the numbers on how her passive stacks with frozen mallet. i do know an autoattack makes the other dude go super slow lol. The diminshing returns on stacking slows are really shitty. CDR is absolutely the prime stat for Sejuani in terms of her in-fight effectiveness, so I'm pretty sure the only item I would get that forgoes CDR would be Aegis. yeah alright. i mained sejuani for 2 months when she came out. she is my 3rd most played champ, with top 3 kda ratio. the 2k dudes that made the guides on solomid agree. frozen mallet is very, very good on her. even if the slow only stacks up to like 30% that is significant, and makes 1 attack a peel or an instant lockdown, instead of 10% which is not inescapable. the whole reason i play sejuani is to lock people down. sure it is possible to do that without a frozen mallet. with a frozen mallet you get 25 minute surrenders and people qq'ing about cc. not to mention your w scales with hp so you are making your kit inarguably better in 2 ways by buying a frozen mallet.
omg man i didn't realize you had a 2k elo guide agreeing with you too. frozen mallet has to be good. im sorry for doubting you.
i knew you were a genius from the moment you made a hecarim guide and a 2.1k guy had a solomid guide just like yours. like have you seen this man?
http://www.solomid.net/guides.php?g=32041
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On August 05 2012 06:25 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2012 06:12 Vaporized wrote:
basically i think of frozen mallet as completing her kit. when i got sejuani i wanted a cc bot as i enjoyed playing those characters in mmo's (which LoL strongly resembles in class archetypes). she does nothing else basically. with a frozen mallet you absolutely achieve insane cc bot status. without it, it is possible in between cooldowns to escape, but with one... well people rarely escape lets just say that. That's the thing, there is no "between cooldowns" at 40% CDR. You have consecutive 6 second CDs that apply 3 second slows.
one of them is 10% tho. that is not enough. there are some champs that have blinks or speed boosts that can escape with a 10% slow on them. if you auto someone and they are slowed by 10% they can flash and be out of range of your q-e combo before u can catch up. if you auto them with frozen mallet and they flash they will still be in range of q-e because of the 43.5% slow.
like i said in the sejuani thread: once u get frozen mallet you are by far the best cc bot in the game (i guess thats my opinion, but i have never played anyone as good). without it you are only one of the best, not the best, champs like naut and skarner are comparable without frozen mallet, with frozen mallet sejuani is better. there is no other champ in the game where i feel like 1 auto is all i need to permanently lock them down.
i really doubt anyone here has played as much sejuani as i have, as ive played several hundred games with her. coming from organized mmo pvp in dark age of camelot (the best game ever made), warhammer online, and rift i played cc bots where i knew my team was going to follow up on what i did because we were on vent and played together every day.
in solo que LoL this is not always the case, and the reason i dont play sejuani as much anymore. when i get a competent team in LoL with sejuani i rarely lose. if i ever join a premade 5's team i will play sejuani for sure. and like i said also, this works for me, if it doesnt work for you, or you like something better, then great, LoL is a complex game where there is more then one way to succeed.
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On August 05 2012 06:47 De4ngus wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2012 05:28 Vaporized wrote:On August 05 2012 05:23 TheYango wrote:On August 05 2012 05:20 Vaporized wrote:
also, i made the thread for her here i believe and said that frozen mallet was my first item after hog and philo and merc treads and people said that was stupid and redundant. i looked on solomid and there is 1 approved and 1 featured guide and they both list frozen mallet as core. i dont know the numbers on how her passive stacks with frozen mallet. i do know an autoattack makes the other dude go super slow lol. The diminshing returns on stacking slows are really shitty. CDR is absolutely the prime stat for Sejuani in terms of her in-fight effectiveness, so I'm pretty sure the only item I would get that forgoes CDR would be Aegis. yeah alright. i mained sejuani for 2 months when she came out. she is my 3rd most played champ, with top 3 kda ratio. the 2k dudes that made the guides on solomid agree. frozen mallet is very, very good on her. even if the slow only stacks up to like 30% that is significant, and makes 1 attack a peel or an instant lockdown, instead of 10% which is not inescapable. the whole reason i play sejuani is to lock people down. sure it is possible to do that without a frozen mallet. with a frozen mallet you get 25 minute surrenders and people qq'ing about cc. not to mention your w scales with hp so you are making your kit inarguably better in 2 ways by buying a frozen mallet. omg man i didn't realize you had a 2k elo guide agreeing with you too. frozen mallet has to be good. im sorry for doubting you. i knew you were a genius from the moment you made a hecarim guide and a 2.1k guy had a solomid guide just like yours. like have you seen this man? http://www.solomid.net/guides.php?g=32041
I laughed for a good minute when I saw that guide. Thank you good sir.
Concerning Sejuani, wouldn't getting cdr also give better stats than just health? If you build FH, you're getting armor and mana, and if you build Shur's, you're getting an incredibly powerful active. I don't play Sej or see her at all, but that's just my 2 cents.
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Rainman used to build rylais on nunu, joke's on all of you who don't know how good slow+slow+slow+slow is.
Fmallet on sejuani is like the icing on the cake.
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On August 05 2012 06:47 De4ngus wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2012 05:28 Vaporized wrote:On August 05 2012 05:23 TheYango wrote:On August 05 2012 05:20 Vaporized wrote:
also, i made the thread for her here i believe and said that frozen mallet was my first item after hog and philo and merc treads and people said that was stupid and redundant. i looked on solomid and there is 1 approved and 1 featured guide and they both list frozen mallet as core. i dont know the numbers on how her passive stacks with frozen mallet. i do know an autoattack makes the other dude go super slow lol. The diminshing returns on stacking slows are really shitty. CDR is absolutely the prime stat for Sejuani in terms of her in-fight effectiveness, so I'm pretty sure the only item I would get that forgoes CDR would be Aegis. yeah alright. i mained sejuani for 2 months when she came out. she is my 3rd most played champ, with top 3 kda ratio. the 2k dudes that made the guides on solomid agree. frozen mallet is very, very good on her. even if the slow only stacks up to like 30% that is significant, and makes 1 attack a peel or an instant lockdown, instead of 10% which is not inescapable. the whole reason i play sejuani is to lock people down. sure it is possible to do that without a frozen mallet. with a frozen mallet you get 25 minute surrenders and people qq'ing about cc. not to mention your w scales with hp so you are making your kit inarguably better in 2 ways by buying a frozen mallet. omg man i didn't realize you had a 2k elo guide agreeing with you too. frozen mallet has to be good. im sorry for doubting you. i knew you were a genius from the moment you made a hecarim guide and a 2.1k guy had a solomid guide just like yours. like have you seen this man? http://www.solomid.net/guides.php?g=32041
people acted like i was the dumbest guy in the world for building frozen mallet and there were no guides out when i made the sejuani thread. i rarely/never see anyone play sejuani so i only had my own games to gauge what worked and what didnt. those guides on solomid are from people that play a lot of sejuani at a high level and they say frozen mallet works in their games. like i said, i dont care what people here think as many people here (such as you) are closeminded and sure they are always right. for people that can think for themselves a bit, and are willing to try something different i can say frozen mallet on sejuani is extremely effective. when i say frozen mallet is good it comes from (in this case) literally hundreds of games played with her. you are saying it is bad. how many games have you played with sejuani and with frozen mallet?
as for the hecarim guide (and my play in general) i will play a champion for at least 30 games in normal drafts, trying something different in items or item build order every time and getting comfortable with their combos and power curves until i dont even have to think about it anymore. i dont try something once and come here and say it works. on that hecarim guide i played hecarim for most of three weeks and that build worked for me. people post things here i dont agree with and instead of making smart ass comments or being unneccesarily argumentative i just accept that they play differently then me and if it works for them then who cares?
you can shit on triforce pd hecarim all you want. but you know what i can say from many games of playing him exactly that way? you carry super hard. if you want a tank then dont build him that way, that should be self explanatory. if you want to carry yourself and tanking isnt necessary (you already have one on your team) then triforce pd is hilarious damage on hecarim.
i just got riven and have played only her for 15 or 20 games in a row. am i going to write a riven guide and proclaim i know definetely how to play her? absolutely not. im not even saying frozen mallet is definetly the best way to build sejuani. but in sejuani's case i know that it is effective and seeing as she is free and other people are talking about her here i mentioned that it is my favorite item to build.
critical thinking and independent thinking are both good skills to have, not just in video games, but in life. there is no substition for trying something yourself and coming to your own conclusions. i honestly was very surprised when i looked at the solomid guides for sejuani this afternoon and saw they both listed frozen mallet as core. arguing that it doesnt work when multiple people who have played it numerous times say it does, is just asinine honestly. if there was a way to block you somehow here, i would. you add nothing.
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On August 05 2012 04:19 Sufficiency wrote:
Disclaimer: I jungle one out of maybe one hundred games.
My limited experience with Sejuani is that she is very, VERY blue dependent. If she has blue, her jungling speed is pretty good just by spamming W and E. Otherwise it's pretty sad. Also her W's cooldown is too high; I wish it was a toggle ability.
Amumu has similar problems, but Amumu has much higher damage (his E is crazy), has a defensive passive, and has a stronger ultimate...
Sejuani's lvl 4 gank is pretty crazy. She does a lot of burst... I fell victim to her quite a few times.
Wait, how does amumu have a defensive passive, exactly? O.o
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On August 05 2012 07:20 sylverfyre wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2012 04:19 Sufficiency wrote:
Disclaimer: I jungle one out of maybe one hundred games.
My limited experience with Sejuani is that she is very, VERY blue dependent. If she has blue, her jungling speed is pretty good just by spamming W and E. Otherwise it's pretty sad. Also her W's cooldown is too high; I wish it was a toggle ability.
Amumu has similar problems, but Amumu has much higher damage (his E is crazy), has a defensive passive, and has a stronger ultimate...
Sejuani's lvl 4 gank is pretty crazy. She does a lot of burst... I fell victim to her quite a few times. Wait, how does amumu have a defensive passive, exactly? O.o
Probs means the passive of his E.
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On August 05 2012 07:20 sylverfyre wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2012 04:19 Sufficiency wrote:
Disclaimer: I jungle one out of maybe one hundred games.
My limited experience with Sejuani is that she is very, VERY blue dependent. If she has blue, her jungling speed is pretty good just by spamming W and E. Otherwise it's pretty sad. Also her W's cooldown is too high; I wish it was a toggle ability.
Amumu has similar problems, but Amumu has much higher damage (his E is crazy), has a defensive passive, and has a stronger ultimate...
Sejuani's lvl 4 gank is pretty crazy. She does a lot of burst... I fell victim to her quite a few times. Wait, how does amumu have a defensive passive, exactly? O.o
the passive on e
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Mallet is horrendous on Sejuani.
You need to realize that there are tons of bad players who do horrible builds and write horrible guides regardless of their Elo.
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EPT
