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United States37500 Posts
On August 10 2012 02:19 Shiv. wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 02:14 NeoIllusions wrote:
People need to stop trolling...
MS Quint on support? Sure, you can walk faster to get that Dazzle in but you're looking at it in a chasing scenario. Of fucking course +speed is going to be better than no speed. But in a laning situation, how exactly are those MS Quints going to help you trade? Better position and common sense on how to lane makes up for it.
If you value outpacing your enemies so much, just get Boots of Mobility. So just because it isn't played by everyone it's trolling all of a sudden? How are GP10 Quints going to help me trade in lane? It's not like you have to chose your quintessences based on what purely helps you trading in lane.
That was meant to be two separate ideas. I'm telling people who are suggesting Bruta and Mejai's on supports to stop posting.
I understand the reasons for MS Quints but I still think those are faulty reasons. I don't think MS Quints are troll, simply bad play style.
GP10 Quints get you ahead slightly. More gold towards that faster Philo, Boots, and/or wards.
Edit: AP Quints are perfectly justified. On a support like Sona, who's built to harass, barring GP10 Quints, compare MS to AP and tell me you'd rather have MS.
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On August 10 2012 02:14 NeoIllusions wrote:
People need to stop trolling...
MS Quint on support? Sure, you can walk faster to get that Dazzle in but you're looking at it in a chasing scenario. Of fucking course +speed is going to be better than no speed. But in a laning situation, how exactly are those MS Quints going to help you trade? Better position and common sense on how to lane makes up for it.
If you value outpacing your enemies so much, just get Boots of Mobility.
Sorry if you consider that trolling, but like every high elo support has switched from gp10 quints to MS quints.
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On August 10 2012 02:18 NeoIllusions wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 02:15 MooMooMugi wrote:
I get boots on mobility on supports when I dont get mercs vs double AP or ninja tabi on non-taric supports I do this too. I'm a fan of clutch Soraka heals, zoomzoom around the map for fast wards and getting back into lane, poking with Sona Q with ease, etc. MS Quints just feels stupid to me. Runes are meant to optimize laning phase, not niche scenarios where X runes could be better.
How are MS quints "trolling"?
GP10 runes don't help you in trades either, if that's the metric you're going by. MS quints may well allow you to land an additional AA or spell (before they tumble/blink/etc. out of range) that you'd have missed otherwise. They also help you get out if you're caught out of position (while warding, when jungler shows up and you were overextended, etc.).
If you mean to optimize laning phase, GP10 are much more of a "troll" pick than MS quints...
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On August 10 2012 02:19 Shiv. wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 02:14 NeoIllusions wrote:
People need to stop trolling...
MS Quint on support? Sure, you can walk faster to get that Dazzle in but you're looking at it in a chasing scenario. Of fucking course +speed is going to be better than no speed. But in a laning situation, how exactly are those MS Quints going to help you trade? Better position and common sense on how to lane makes up for it.
If you value outpacing your enemies so much, just get Boots of Mobility. So just because it isn't played by everyone it's trolling all of a sudden? How are GP10 Quints going to help me trade in lane? It's not like you have to chose your quintessences based on what purely helps you trading in lane. Why would anyone besides APs ever run them based on that assumption?
Bruta Taric is pretty troll lol
MS Quints though I think sacrifice WAY too much for a support. GP10 Quints are insanely good for someone already so gold starved. And bot lane is really short anyway. For the most part, the extra maybe +15 movement speed from Quints won't make or break a lane. Simply being smart with positioning should generally fix that. That level of difference in movement speed only really starts to show in long chases. I can see the value, but then I play Leona and stuff. No need to MS when you already have E.
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Do people not fucking read before posting? he clearly specified in next post he was talking about the Mejais and Bruta comments...
Ms quints are nearly useless in laning phase, and any ward clearing/roaming duties you need to do are more than adequately covered by mobie boots.
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On August 10 2012 02:24 NeoIllusions wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 02:19 Shiv. wrote:On August 10 2012 02:14 NeoIllusions wrote:
People need to stop trolling...
MS Quint on support? Sure, you can walk faster to get that Dazzle in but you're looking at it in a chasing scenario. Of fucking course +speed is going to be better than no speed. But in a laning situation, how exactly are those MS Quints going to help you trade? Better position and common sense on how to lane makes up for it.
If you value outpacing your enemies so much, just get Boots of Mobility. So just because it isn't played by everyone it's trolling all of a sudden? How are GP10 Quints going to help me trade in lane? It's not like you have to chose your quintessences based on what purely helps you trading in lane. That was meant to be two separate ideas. I'm telling people who are suggesting Bruta and Mejai's on supports to stop posting. I understand the reasons for MS Quints but I still think those are faulty reasons. I don't think MS Quints are troll, simply bad play style. GP10 Quints get you ahead slightly. More gold towards that faster Philo, Boots, and/or wards. Edit: AP Quints are perfectly justified. On a support like Sona, who's built to harass, barring GP10 Quints, compare MS to AP and tell me you'd rather have MS.
I'd rather have the MS than the AP, makes it much easier to get those Qs in actually. The AP may be nice but it's only good in the first few levels, the ms will stay good all game long. I'd still run gp10quints regardless.
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On August 10 2012 02:27 wei2coolman wrote:
Do people not fucking read before posting? he clearly specified in next post he was talking about the Mejais and Bruta comments...
Ms quints are nearly useless in laning phase, and any ward clearing/roaming duties you need to do are more than adequately covered by mobie boots.
And they were all clearly typing their responses before seeing his next post.
I mean people start boots for a reason. Sure the quints aren't as big a deal but the same can be said about most runes compared to items.
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On August 10 2012 02:28 JackDino wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 02:24 NeoIllusions wrote:On August 10 2012 02:19 Shiv. wrote:On August 10 2012 02:14 NeoIllusions wrote:
People need to stop trolling...
MS Quint on support? Sure, you can walk faster to get that Dazzle in but you're looking at it in a chasing scenario. Of fucking course +speed is going to be better than no speed. But in a laning situation, how exactly are those MS Quints going to help you trade? Better position and common sense on how to lane makes up for it.
If you value outpacing your enemies so much, just get Boots of Mobility. So just because it isn't played by everyone it's trolling all of a sudden? How are GP10 Quints going to help me trade in lane? It's not like you have to chose your quintessences based on what purely helps you trading in lane. That was meant to be two separate ideas. I'm telling people who are suggesting Bruta and Mejai's on supports to stop posting. I understand the reasons for MS Quints but I still think those are faulty reasons. I don't think MS Quints are troll, simply bad play style. GP10 Quints get you ahead slightly. More gold towards that faster Philo, Boots, and/or wards. Edit: AP Quints are perfectly justified. On a support like Sona, who's built to harass, barring GP10 Quints, compare MS to AP and tell me you'd rather have MS. I'd rather have the MS than the AP, makes it much easier to get those Qs in actually.
Actually, against someone who is positioning properly it doesn't at all. Lane is such a small area that getting from A to B 0.1 seconds faster isn't worth anything. Maybe if you're chasing someone down from tower to tower you can catch them with your quints, but otherwise it won't make a difference. AP quints, on the other hand, make a difference every time you cast a spell.
(I still think there's some merit to using move speed quints on blitz/taric/leona, but only at my elo and below. Good positioning still >)
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On August 10 2012 02:31 mordek wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 02:27 wei2coolman wrote:
Do people not fucking read before posting? he clearly specified in next post he was talking about the Mejais and Bruta comments...
Ms quints are nearly useless in laning phase, and any ward clearing/roaming duties you need to do are more than adequately covered by mobie boots. And they were all clearly typing their responses before seeing his next post. I mean people start boots for a reason. Sure the quints aren't as big a deal but the same can be said about most runes compared to items.
Boot starts are only common in tourney games (or super aggressive supports) in which whole team movements in lvl 1 fights are more important than initial buildup of gp10 items.
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On August 10 2012 02:28 JackDino wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 02:24 NeoIllusions wrote:On August 10 2012 02:19 Shiv. wrote:On August 10 2012 02:14 NeoIllusions wrote:
People need to stop trolling...
MS Quint on support? Sure, you can walk faster to get that Dazzle in but you're looking at it in a chasing scenario. Of fucking course +speed is going to be better than no speed. But in a laning situation, how exactly are those MS Quints going to help you trade? Better position and common sense on how to lane makes up for it.
If you value outpacing your enemies so much, just get Boots of Mobility. So just because it isn't played by everyone it's trolling all of a sudden? How are GP10 Quints going to help me trade in lane? It's not like you have to chose your quintessences based on what purely helps you trading in lane. That was meant to be two separate ideas. I'm telling people who are suggesting Bruta and Mejai's on supports to stop posting. I understand the reasons for MS Quints but I still think those are faulty reasons. I don't think MS Quints are troll, simply bad play style. GP10 Quints get you ahead slightly. More gold towards that faster Philo, Boots, and/or wards. Edit: AP Quints are perfectly justified. On a support like Sona, who's built to harass, barring GP10 Quints, compare MS to AP and tell me you'd rather have MS. I'd rather have the MS than the AP, makes it much easier to get those Qs in actually. The AP may be nice but it's only good in the first few levels, the ms will stay good all game long. I'd still run gp10quints regardless.
completely unneeded, if they are running from you to avoid q, mission accomplished.
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On August 10 2012 02:24 NeoIllusions wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 02:19 Shiv. wrote:On August 10 2012 02:14 NeoIllusions wrote:
People need to stop trolling...
MS Quint on support? Sure, you can walk faster to get that Dazzle in but you're looking at it in a chasing scenario. Of fucking course +speed is going to be better than no speed. But in a laning situation, how exactly are those MS Quints going to help you trade? Better position and common sense on how to lane makes up for it.
If you value outpacing your enemies so much, just get Boots of Mobility. So just because it isn't played by everyone it's trolling all of a sudden? How are GP10 Quints going to help me trade in lane? It's not like you have to chose your quintessences based on what purely helps you trading in lane. That was meant to be two separate ideas. I'm telling people who are suggesting Bruta and Mejai's on supports to stop posting. I understand the reasons for MS Quints but I still think those are faulty reasons. I don't think MS Quints are troll, simply bad play style. GP10 Quints get you ahead slightly. More gold towards that faster Philo, Boots, and/or wards. Edit: AP Quints are perfectly justified. On a support like Sona, who's built to harass, barring GP10 Quints, compare MS to AP and tell me you'd rather have MS.
MejaiRaka pretty legit. Spam R every time there's a fight, infinite assists hue hue.
On August 10 2012 01:20 Seuss wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 00:27 Requizen wrote:On August 10 2012 00:05 Seuss wrote:On August 09 2012 23:05 Requizen wrote:
More random thoughts on Diana (jungle).
I concede defeat on the build front. Tanky AP isn't her thing, she's really all damage and needs more and more AP to continue being useful and scary. Of course, on a non-fed jungle salary that's somewhat limiting. Guise is great, Sheen works really well. I built Chalice and, while I could spam stuff in the jungle with impunity, I really felt the lack of damage. Glacial would probably still be my favored Armor item, but I think I'm going to just eschew focusing on defenses altogether. DRings are my next focus, 1 or 2 before any mid or late game items. Only "tanky" (if you can call it that) item that I'll be getting will be Merc's, because CC demolishes her like any other melee dps/assassin.
I've been running 9/21, but I think I'll be switching to 21/9 since my build will also be focusing more on damage than defense. Once you hit level 2~3, you don't even need defenses anyway because you clear so bloody fast. I'm still up in the air between mpen and AS marks, but I think AS is better overall, especially since I like Guise and Abyssal as items, get the mpen out of Offense tree, and with the AS marks you can pretty much clear/push with nothing but autos.
As far as later items go, I don't like AS items though. In my mind, for AS to be effective, you need sticking power so you can constantly auto. With only the one slow (Moonfall) and her teleport, anyone with a slow, sprint, or CC will make it very hard for her to stick, even with Red. Following that line of thought, and somewhat related to my "more damage less tanky items" conclusion, I've been considering Rylai. Yes, it's somewhat tanky because of the health, but it has a lot of AP, decent build items (grabbing Belt or Blasting Rod is nice even without the full item), and she needs the sticking power. Only issue is that all of her abilities only proc the 15% slow except her ult. It requires some testing, I think, but also not an item I'd rush.
Similarly, I want to test out Revolver a bit. I know I originally ignored it because spell vamp doesn't scale with her shield, but I'm focusing less on her shield's innate tankiness and more on her damage now, so a pure AP item that gives a bit of sustain (especially landing Moonfall -> W+Q for big AoE healing) may not be amiss. It's also nice to get into WotA if you want a double WotA comp but have an AD bruiser or straight tank top.
My issue with her is that I kept thinking of her and playing her like Skarner or Udyr, thinking as a bruiser and what not. But she's more like Shaco/Xin/Jax, a damage jungler, which I realize now. I think the reason is that, when I first saw her shield and that she was designed as a counterpart to Leona, I was thinking of her defenses. But her shield is more used for the damage on it, and it's not a tank ability by a long shot. She needs damage to be effective, and she needs to act like an assassin more than a fighter. She might be a bit tankier than someone like Shaco or Fizz or something thanks to W, but it by no means brings her up to a Skarner or Shen level.
Anyway, thoughts during my drive and breakfast. Sorry for the random wall of text. Cross reference your current thoughts with the discussion of why melee AD carries do not work. The problem that faces a pure AP Diana is the same problem that faces a melee AD or any melee range champion who does not build defenses, by definition you're in range to eat everything the enemy team has to offer. The "damage junglers" you referenced all address this issue by building defenses. Shaco has enough problems late-game without adding to them by forsaking defenses. Xin and Jax, despite having defensive steroids, can't afford to build pure damage because they'd get murdered in team fights. If Diana had consistent escape mechanism, ala LeBlanc or Kassadin, she might have been able to circumvent this issue. She doesn't, and for that reason I think completely eschewing defenses is a mistake. That said, I recognize you're probably at the Elo where a Xin Zhao can rush a Black Cleaver and just demolish teams because there's no coordination or focus. That being the case you're probably correct to take advantage of that and focus on damage. You're correct in that it's scary to jump into melee as Diana with no defenses, but then again, that's what she is. The difference between her and Jax/Xin is that they can both be pretty scary with a single damage item and the rest defensive or hybrid defense/damage. Either one with just TF followed by Randuin/Maw/Wit's/GA/any combination is going to be a damage terror. Unless it's like, a 15 minute DC, Diana with just one AP item and then the rest defensive isn't going to be scary damage. For her mid to late game to be scary, she needs more AP. That can take the form of some hybrid items (Abyssal, for instance, is still very good for her), but things like Chalice for MR, FH for Armor, or big ticket defense items like GA aren't really her thing. (Note: Athene's Grail is a great item on her, but she can't sit on Chalice. I'd rather go Codex -> Athenes than Chalice -> Athenes.) So when I say "eschew defenses", that doesn't rule out Abyssal, Rylai or the like, but I really would feel pained to buy a straight tank item on her, except maybe GA as a final slot late late game. She needs a bit to survive diving, but her shield helps with that, and she should be able to burst down/zone out the big damage dealers on the other team. Her job is to kill things, and she does that by exploding them rather than acting like Xin or Jax and sticking with autos. I'm not sure what to say at this point. I employed exactly the style of play you say doesn't work to great effect at a reasonably high Elo. My best game I spent nearly 4000g on pure tank/support items before even looking at damage, though I think that was overkill. It's been so effective I've been rethinking how I approach jungle Akali. I'll be sure to try your style at some point, but I think you're underestimating the potential of simply being an unpeelable AP bruiser.
I just can't feel it. If you're going to build pure tank/support items, why would you play a champion that only has 1 CC and a teleport? If I was going to do AP damage and only build tank items, I'd play Naut and be way more useful to the team. Diana's kit is literally all damage except her E, there's no reason to pick her over anyone else if you just want to be an unkillable jerk. If you do build like that, yeah you're unkillable, but you're not doing enough damage to be a threat and will be ignored every teamfight.
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United States37500 Posts
On August 10 2012 02:28 JackDino wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 02:24 NeoIllusions wrote:On August 10 2012 02:19 Shiv. wrote:On August 10 2012 02:14 NeoIllusions wrote:
People need to stop trolling...
MS Quint on support? Sure, you can walk faster to get that Dazzle in but you're looking at it in a chasing scenario. Of fucking course +speed is going to be better than no speed. But in a laning situation, how exactly are those MS Quints going to help you trade? Better position and common sense on how to lane makes up for it.
If you value outpacing your enemies so much, just get Boots of Mobility. So just because it isn't played by everyone it's trolling all of a sudden? How are GP10 Quints going to help me trade in lane? It's not like you have to chose your quintessences based on what purely helps you trading in lane. That was meant to be two separate ideas. I'm telling people who are suggesting Bruta and Mejai's on supports to stop posting. I understand the reasons for MS Quints but I still think those are faulty reasons. I don't think MS Quints are troll, simply bad play style. GP10 Quints get you ahead slightly. More gold towards that faster Philo, Boots, and/or wards. Edit: AP Quints are perfectly justified. On a support like Sona, who's built to harass, barring GP10 Quints, compare MS to AP and tell me you'd rather have MS. I'd rather have the MS than the AP, makes it much easier to get those Qs in actually. The AP may be nice but it's only good in the first few levels, the ms will stay good all game long. I'd still run gp10quints regardless.
If you have trouble landing Sona Q's, then yes, MS Quints may be better for you.
For me, I ward brushes early and harass when I know the enemy AD is coming forward to CS (tangent but I can't stress this enough for a good Support player), a little bit more AP works better for my Sona who opens QWQWQR. I poke harder and heal for a little bit more. I get more mileage out of that AP than I would +6% speed.
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On August 10 2012 02:32 Perplex wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 02:28 JackDino wrote:On August 10 2012 02:24 NeoIllusions wrote:On August 10 2012 02:19 Shiv. wrote:On August 10 2012 02:14 NeoIllusions wrote:
People need to stop trolling...
MS Quint on support? Sure, you can walk faster to get that Dazzle in but you're looking at it in a chasing scenario. Of fucking course +speed is going to be better than no speed. But in a laning situation, how exactly are those MS Quints going to help you trade? Better position and common sense on how to lane makes up for it.
If you value outpacing your enemies so much, just get Boots of Mobility. So just because it isn't played by everyone it's trolling all of a sudden? How are GP10 Quints going to help me trade in lane? It's not like you have to chose your quintessences based on what purely helps you trading in lane. That was meant to be two separate ideas. I'm telling people who are suggesting Bruta and Mejai's on supports to stop posting. I understand the reasons for MS Quints but I still think those are faulty reasons. I don't think MS Quints are troll, simply bad play style. GP10 Quints get you ahead slightly. More gold towards that faster Philo, Boots, and/or wards. Edit: AP Quints are perfectly justified. On a support like Sona, who's built to harass, barring GP10 Quints, compare MS to AP and tell me you'd rather have MS. I'd rather have the MS than the AP, makes it much easier to get those Qs in actually. Actually, against someone who is positioning properly it doesn't at all. Lane is such a small area that getting from A to B 0.1 seconds faster isn't worth anything. Maybe if you're chasing someone down from tower to tower you can catch them with your quints, but otherwise it won't make a difference. AP quints, on the other hand, make a difference every time you cast a spell. (I still think there's some merit to using move speed quints on blitz/taric/leona, but only at my elo and below. Good positioning still >)
For what it's worth Chauster often uses MS quints on Taric. Personally I just feel like I get stuns off that I wouldn't otherwise with the MS quints, both in lane and out of lane when chasing.
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On August 10 2012 02:24 NeoIllusions wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 02:19 Shiv. wrote:On August 10 2012 02:14 NeoIllusions wrote:
People need to stop trolling...
MS Quint on support? Sure, you can walk faster to get that Dazzle in but you're looking at it in a chasing scenario. Of fucking course +speed is going to be better than no speed. But in a laning situation, how exactly are those MS Quints going to help you trade? Better position and common sense on how to lane makes up for it.
If you value outpacing your enemies so much, just get Boots of Mobility. So just because it isn't played by everyone it's trolling all of a sudden? How are GP10 Quints going to help me trade in lane? It's not like you have to chose your quintessences based on what purely helps you trading in lane. That was meant to be two separate ideas. I'm telling people who are suggesting Bruta and Mejai's on supports to stop posting. .
My bad, sorry.
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On August 10 2012 01:32 AsmodeusXI wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 01:25 Simberto wrote:On August 10 2012 00:29 AsmodeusXI wrote:On August 10 2012 00:26 Gorsameth wrote:On August 10 2012 00:21 AsmodeusXI wrote:On August 10 2012 00:17 Gorsameth wrote:On August 10 2012 00:13 TheLink wrote:
How is no-one talking about Diana's login music? Thought I might sneak in a game or 2 before bed but I've spent 10 minutes listening to this on repeat now. Your about 50 pages late. I'll still talk about how awesome it is. I got your back. (it is 50 pages back tho)  Also, on the subject of other unimportant things, is anyone else sad there's no weird Leona/Diana interaction buff/message or whatever? I assume one would have been found already if there were, and I know at least from personal experience that having them on opposing teams doesn't seem to do anything. It is kinda sad yes especially considering there is already the case of Zilian and Volibear but then again Nasus and Renekton would also be a case but isnt. I DEMAND MOAR ATTENTION TO LORE IN GAMEPLAY. That's probably a TL first, right? Recently, i have been asking myself if only major celestial bodies get avatars. Or are there a bunch of women on that solari peak that are the avatars of some random asteroid or star far away which have the ability to be completely uninteresting, for example? "I am the chosen of 89115 - XRS!" It's not too far from this thought that we get a Chosen of Mars, Mercury, and Venus (or their Runeterran equivalents) and then we get a Sailor Moon skin team. I am undecided if I would love this or LOATHE IT.
My fiance would love it. She's a huge Sailor Moon fan.
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On August 10 2012 02:27 wei2coolman wrote:
Do people not fucking read before posting? he clearly specified in next post he was talking about the Mejais and Bruta comments...
Ms quints are nearly useless in laning phase and any ward clearing/roaming duties you need to do are more than adequately covered by mobie boots.
Gp10 quints are worth less in lane than MS quints let alone any quints in the game i believe.
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United States37500 Posts
On August 10 2012 02:35 QuakerOats wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 02:32 Perplex wrote:On August 10 2012 02:28 JackDino wrote:On August 10 2012 02:24 NeoIllusions wrote:On August 10 2012 02:19 Shiv. wrote:On August 10 2012 02:14 NeoIllusions wrote:
People need to stop trolling...
MS Quint on support? Sure, you can walk faster to get that Dazzle in but you're looking at it in a chasing scenario. Of fucking course +speed is going to be better than no speed. But in a laning situation, how exactly are those MS Quints going to help you trade? Better position and common sense on how to lane makes up for it.
If you value outpacing your enemies so much, just get Boots of Mobility. So just because it isn't played by everyone it's trolling all of a sudden? How are GP10 Quints going to help me trade in lane? It's not like you have to chose your quintessences based on what purely helps you trading in lane. That was meant to be two separate ideas. I'm telling people who are suggesting Bruta and Mejai's on supports to stop posting. I understand the reasons for MS Quints but I still think those are faulty reasons. I don't think MS Quints are troll, simply bad play style. GP10 Quints get you ahead slightly. More gold towards that faster Philo, Boots, and/or wards. Edit: AP Quints are perfectly justified. On a support like Sona, who's built to harass, barring GP10 Quints, compare MS to AP and tell me you'd rather have MS. I'd rather have the MS than the AP, makes it much easier to get those Qs in actually. Actually, against someone who is positioning properly it doesn't at all. Lane is such a small area that getting from A to B 0.1 seconds faster isn't worth anything. Maybe if you're chasing someone down from tower to tower you can catch them with your quints, but otherwise it won't make a difference. AP quints, on the other hand, make a difference every time you cast a spell. (I still think there's some merit to using move speed quints on blitz/taric/leona, but only at my elo and below. Good positioning still >) For what it's worth Chauster often uses MS quints on Taric. Personally I just feel like I get stuns off that I wouldn't otherwise with the MS quints, both in lane and out of lane when chasing.
Yet again, situationally, MS on Taric is ok. Especially so if you have an AD partner that has a gap closer who can capitalize on your speedy stun (Graves or Vayne). But from last page, I'm under the impression where we're talking about generic Support rune pages.
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On August 10 2012 01:30 Zdrastochye wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 01:21 TheYango wrote:On August 10 2012 01:17 JackDino wrote:On August 10 2012 01:15 TheYango wrote:On August 10 2012 01:08 Sponkz wrote:
Also regarding taric i'm starting to like boots -> hog -> tabi -> aegis -> work towards frozen heart. Makes him a super strong force. If your team needs to wait on the support to finish FH at like 40 minutes instead of having Jungle/Top build it, something has gone very wrong. I think it's more to make himself tankier even if his team already has one. In 90% of cases, Armor is going to be Taric's least necessary defensive stat because of his passive armor from W. Which he loses just for using his ability. No, I think armor is most important than MR to Taric, because he's still going to be taking mostly physical damage for the first 20 minutes. If you gimp yourself early on Taric and end up being a free kill every time their AD right clicks on you (obviously a good support wouldn't be that out of position) then you pretty much fucked yourself because Taric gets worse as time goes on.
He only loses the personal passive armor, he still benefits from his own passive aura. So you drop from +60 armor to +30 armor while shatter is on cooldown.
Also, kindlegem-based items give HP, which is usually what supports like best anyway - doubly so for taric who gets free armor. AP carries are often not going to dump cooldowns (or only short cooldowns) on a support unless you're overextended and they can pick you off without starting a fight with anyone else. The CDR is really useful for taric as well, because your teamfight presence is strongly linked to how often you can stun. I've become more fond of zekes lately, when my team has a bruiser top (as opposed to an AP top.) Shurelias is still great on him, helps a lot with getting your team to follow through on your stun.
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On August 10 2012 02:40 NeoIllusions wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 02:35 QuakerOats wrote:On August 10 2012 02:32 Perplex wrote:On August 10 2012 02:28 JackDino wrote:On August 10 2012 02:24 NeoIllusions wrote:On August 10 2012 02:19 Shiv. wrote:On August 10 2012 02:14 NeoIllusions wrote:
People need to stop trolling...
MS Quint on support? Sure, you can walk faster to get that Dazzle in but you're looking at it in a chasing scenario. Of fucking course +speed is going to be better than no speed. But in a laning situation, how exactly are those MS Quints going to help you trade? Better position and common sense on how to lane makes up for it.
If you value outpacing your enemies so much, just get Boots of Mobility. So just because it isn't played by everyone it's trolling all of a sudden? How are GP10 Quints going to help me trade in lane? It's not like you have to chose your quintessences based on what purely helps you trading in lane. That was meant to be two separate ideas. I'm telling people who are suggesting Bruta and Mejai's on supports to stop posting. I understand the reasons for MS Quints but I still think those are faulty reasons. I don't think MS Quints are troll, simply bad play style. GP10 Quints get you ahead slightly. More gold towards that faster Philo, Boots, and/or wards. Edit: AP Quints are perfectly justified. On a support like Sona, who's built to harass, barring GP10 Quints, compare MS to AP and tell me you'd rather have MS. I'd rather have the MS than the AP, makes it much easier to get those Qs in actually. Actually, against someone who is positioning properly it doesn't at all. Lane is such a small area that getting from A to B 0.1 seconds faster isn't worth anything. Maybe if you're chasing someone down from tower to tower you can catch them with your quints, but otherwise it won't make a difference. AP quints, on the other hand, make a difference every time you cast a spell. (I still think there's some merit to using move speed quints on blitz/taric/leona, but only at my elo and below. Good positioning still >) For what it's worth Chauster often uses MS quints on Taric. Personally I just feel like I get stuns off that I wouldn't otherwise with the MS quints, both in lane and out of lane when chasing. Yet again, situationally, MS on Taric is ok. Especially so if you have an AD partner that has a gap closer who can capitalize on your speedy stun (Graves or Vayne). But from last page, I'm under the impression where we're talking about generic Support rune pages.
I need to get me one of those because right now my supports are running off my mage rune page with a support mastery set up. Darn 6300 IP for a darn rune page.
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On August 10 2012 02:40 NeoIllusions wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 02:35 QuakerOats wrote:On August 10 2012 02:32 Perplex wrote:On August 10 2012 02:28 JackDino wrote:On August 10 2012 02:24 NeoIllusions wrote:On August 10 2012 02:19 Shiv. wrote:On August 10 2012 02:14 NeoIllusions wrote:
People need to stop trolling...
MS Quint on support? Sure, you can walk faster to get that Dazzle in but you're looking at it in a chasing scenario. Of fucking course +speed is going to be better than no speed. But in a laning situation, how exactly are those MS Quints going to help you trade? Better position and common sense on how to lane makes up for it.
If you value outpacing your enemies so much, just get Boots of Mobility. So just because it isn't played by everyone it's trolling all of a sudden? How are GP10 Quints going to help me trade in lane? It's not like you have to chose your quintessences based on what purely helps you trading in lane. That was meant to be two separate ideas. I'm telling people who are suggesting Bruta and Mejai's on supports to stop posting. I understand the reasons for MS Quints but I still think those are faulty reasons. I don't think MS Quints are troll, simply bad play style. GP10 Quints get you ahead slightly. More gold towards that faster Philo, Boots, and/or wards. Edit: AP Quints are perfectly justified. On a support like Sona, who's built to harass, barring GP10 Quints, compare MS to AP and tell me you'd rather have MS. I'd rather have the MS than the AP, makes it much easier to get those Qs in actually. Actually, against someone who is positioning properly it doesn't at all. Lane is such a small area that getting from A to B 0.1 seconds faster isn't worth anything. Maybe if you're chasing someone down from tower to tower you can catch them with your quints, but otherwise it won't make a difference. AP quints, on the other hand, make a difference every time you cast a spell. (I still think there's some merit to using move speed quints on blitz/taric/leona, but only at my elo and below. Good positioning still >) For what it's worth Chauster often uses MS quints on Taric. Personally I just feel like I get stuns off that I wouldn't otherwise with the MS quints, both in lane and out of lane when chasing. Yet again, situationally, MS on Taric is ok. Especially so if you have an AD partner that has a gap closer who can capitalize on your speedy stun (Graves or Vayne). But from last page, I'm under the impression where we're talking about generic Support rune pages.
Like MS quints are good on any given agressive support simply because it makes setting up for kills easier. However i've taken notice that whenever i'm playing soraka, enemies tend to apply pressure because aside from flash she's pretty easy to catch. Boots opening along with MS quints make me hard to catch. Guess it's a preference style, i mainly started this discussion because some people said they prefered gp10 quints and they're really bad for quint slots.
For me, as a support, i feel mobility should come from your runes/masteries not from your items.
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EPT
