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On August 10 2012 00:27 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 00:05 Seuss wrote:On August 09 2012 23:05 Requizen wrote:
More random thoughts on Diana (jungle).
I concede defeat on the build front. Tanky AP isn't her thing, she's really all damage and needs more and more AP to continue being useful and scary. Of course, on a non-fed jungle salary that's somewhat limiting. Guise is great, Sheen works really well. I built Chalice and, while I could spam stuff in the jungle with impunity, I really felt the lack of damage. Glacial would probably still be my favored Armor item, but I think I'm going to just eschew focusing on defenses altogether. DRings are my next focus, 1 or 2 before any mid or late game items. Only "tanky" (if you can call it that) item that I'll be getting will be Merc's, because CC demolishes her like any other melee dps/assassin.
I've been running 9/21, but I think I'll be switching to 21/9 since my build will also be focusing more on damage than defense. Once you hit level 2~3, you don't even need defenses anyway because you clear so bloody fast. I'm still up in the air between mpen and AS marks, but I think AS is better overall, especially since I like Guise and Abyssal as items, get the mpen out of Offense tree, and with the AS marks you can pretty much clear/push with nothing but autos.
As far as later items go, I don't like AS items though. In my mind, for AS to be effective, you need sticking power so you can constantly auto. With only the one slow (Moonfall) and her teleport, anyone with a slow, sprint, or CC will make it very hard for her to stick, even with Red. Following that line of thought, and somewhat related to my "more damage less tanky items" conclusion, I've been considering Rylai. Yes, it's somewhat tanky because of the health, but it has a lot of AP, decent build items (grabbing Belt or Blasting Rod is nice even without the full item), and she needs the sticking power. Only issue is that all of her abilities only proc the 15% slow except her ult. It requires some testing, I think, but also not an item I'd rush.
Similarly, I want to test out Revolver a bit. I know I originally ignored it because spell vamp doesn't scale with her shield, but I'm focusing less on her shield's innate tankiness and more on her damage now, so a pure AP item that gives a bit of sustain (especially landing Moonfall -> W+Q for big AoE healing) may not be amiss. It's also nice to get into WotA if you want a double WotA comp but have an AD bruiser or straight tank top.
My issue with her is that I kept thinking of her and playing her like Skarner or Udyr, thinking as a bruiser and what not. But she's more like Shaco/Xin/Jax, a damage jungler, which I realize now. I think the reason is that, when I first saw her shield and that she was designed as a counterpart to Leona, I was thinking of her defenses. But her shield is more used for the damage on it, and it's not a tank ability by a long shot. She needs damage to be effective, and she needs to act like an assassin more than a fighter. She might be a bit tankier than someone like Shaco or Fizz or something thanks to W, but it by no means brings her up to a Skarner or Shen level.
Anyway, thoughts during my drive and breakfast. Sorry for the random wall of text. Cross reference your current thoughts with the discussion of why melee AD carries do not work. The problem that faces a pure AP Diana is the same problem that faces a melee AD or any melee range champion who does not build defenses, by definition you're in range to eat everything the enemy team has to offer. The "damage junglers" you referenced all address this issue by building defenses. Shaco has enough problems late-game without adding to them by forsaking defenses. Xin and Jax, despite having defensive steroids, can't afford to build pure damage because they'd get murdered in team fights. If Diana had consistent escape mechanism, ala LeBlanc or Kassadin, she might have been able to circumvent this issue. She doesn't, and for that reason I think completely eschewing defenses is a mistake. That said, I recognize you're probably at the Elo where a Xin Zhao can rush a Black Cleaver and just demolish teams because there's no coordination or focus. That being the case you're probably correct to take advantage of that and focus on damage. You're correct in that it's scary to jump into melee as Diana with no defenses, but then again, that's what she is. The difference between her and Jax/Xin is that they can both be pretty scary with a single damage item and the rest defensive or hybrid defense/damage. Either one with just TF followed by Randuin/Maw/Wit's/GA/any combination is going to be a damage terror. Unless it's like, a 15 minute DC, Diana with just one AP item and then the rest defensive isn't going to be scary damage. For her mid to late game to be scary, she needs more AP. That can take the form of some hybrid items (Abyssal, for instance, is still very good for her), but things like Chalice for MR, FH for Armor, or big ticket defense items like GA aren't really her thing. (Note: Athene's Grail is a great item on her, but she can't sit on Chalice. I'd rather go Codex -> Athenes than Chalice -> Athenes.) So when I say "eschew defenses", that doesn't rule out Abyssal, Rylai or the like, but I really would feel pained to buy a straight tank item on her, except maybe GA as a final slot late late game. She needs a bit to survive diving, but her shield helps with that, and she should be able to burst down/zone out the big damage dealers on the other team. Her job is to kill things, and she does that by exploding them rather than acting like Xin or Jax and sticking with autos.
I'm not sure what to say at this point. I employed exactly the style of play you say doesn't work to great effect at a reasonably high Elo. My best game I spent nearly 4000g on pure tank/support items before even looking at damage, though I think that was overkill. It's been so effective I've been rethinking how I approach jungle Akali.
I'll be sure to try your style at some point, but I think you're underestimating the potential of simply being an unpeelable AP bruiser.
That gives me hope(?) they won't nerf her because I'm totally going to abuse the crap out of her.
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United States47024 Posts
On August 10 2012 01:17 JackDino wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 01:15 TheYango wrote:On August 10 2012 01:08 Sponkz wrote:
Also regarding taric i'm starting to like boots -> hog -> tabi -> aegis -> work towards frozen heart. Makes him a super strong force. If your team needs to wait on the support to finish FH at like 40 minutes instead of having Jungle/Top build it, something has gone very wrong. I think it's more to make himself tankier even if his team already has one.
In 90% of cases, Armor is going to be Taric's least necessary defensive stat because of his passive armor from W.
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On August 09 2012 17:50 TwoToneTerran wrote:
Wingsofdeath would be my favorite streamer if his name wasn't so stupid.
Choosing to dislike someone who produces content that you enjoy just because of their name seems even more stupid.
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On August 10 2012 01:21 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 01:17 JackDino wrote:On August 10 2012 01:15 TheYango wrote:On August 10 2012 01:08 Sponkz wrote:
Also regarding taric i'm starting to like boots -> hog -> tabi -> aegis -> work towards frozen heart. Makes him a super strong force. If your team needs to wait on the support to finish FH at like 40 minutes instead of having Jungle/Top build it, something has gone very wrong. I think it's more to make himself tankier even if his team already has one. In 90% of cases, Armor is going to be Taric's least necessary defensive stat because of his passive armor from W.
Unless they're putting out some serious AoE damage though you never really need MR on supports like Taric/Leona/Blitz/Alistar. If their AP carry wants to burst me down over someone else they're welcome to it. And you generally have scaling MR glyphs + aegis anyway.
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On August 10 2012 00:29 AsmodeusXI wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 00:26 Gorsameth wrote:On August 10 2012 00:21 AsmodeusXI wrote:On August 10 2012 00:17 Gorsameth wrote:On August 10 2012 00:13 TheLink wrote:
How is no-one talking about Diana's login music? Thought I might sneak in a game or 2 before bed but I've spent 10 minutes listening to this on repeat now. Your about 50 pages late. I'll still talk about how awesome it is. I got your back. (it is 50 pages back tho)  Also, on the subject of other unimportant things, is anyone else sad there's no weird Leona/Diana interaction buff/message or whatever? I assume one would have been found already if there were, and I know at least from personal experience that having them on opposing teams doesn't seem to do anything. It is kinda sad yes especially considering there is already the case of Zilian and Volibear but then again Nasus and Renekton would also be a case but isnt. I DEMAND MOAR ATTENTION TO LORE IN GAMEPLAY. That's probably a TL first, right?
Recently, i have been asking myself if only major celestial bodies get avatars. Or are there a bunch of women on that solari peak that are the avatars of some random asteroid or star far away which have the ability to be completely uninteresting, for example? "I am the chosen of 89115 - XRS!"
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I just saw this on reddit. I think we need more bebop pigs in games:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/SZdWb.jpg)
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On August 10 2012 01:24 TheLink wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 01:21 TheYango wrote:On August 10 2012 01:17 JackDino wrote:On August 10 2012 01:15 TheYango wrote:On August 10 2012 01:08 Sponkz wrote:
Also regarding taric i'm starting to like boots -> hog -> tabi -> aegis -> work towards frozen heart. Makes him a super strong force. If your team needs to wait on the support to finish FH at like 40 minutes instead of having Jungle/Top build it, something has gone very wrong. I think it's more to make himself tankier even if his team already has one. In 90% of cases, Armor is going to be Taric's least necessary defensive stat because of his passive armor from W. Unless they're putting out some serious AoE damage though you never really need MR on supports like Taric/Leona/Blitz/Alistar. If their AP carry wants to burst me down over someone else they're welcome to it. And you generally have scaling MR glyphs + aegis anyway.
A fair number of bot lane combinations have enough magic damage that if you're making a generic support rune page it's still worth getting flat MRes in Blues. (Corki, Ez, Trist, Leona, Taric to name but a few). If you have enough rune pages to make specialised rune pages for specific supports, then you are a richer person than I haha.
Also, as for Yellows I have only ever liked GP10 Yellows on Leona and Taric. Even then, Armour Yellows would also have worked fine.
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On August 10 2012 01:27 Chiharu Harukaze wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 01:24 TheLink wrote:On August 10 2012 01:21 TheYango wrote:On August 10 2012 01:17 JackDino wrote:On August 10 2012 01:15 TheYango wrote:On August 10 2012 01:08 Sponkz wrote:
Also regarding taric i'm starting to like boots -> hog -> tabi -> aegis -> work towards frozen heart. Makes him a super strong force. If your team needs to wait on the support to finish FH at like 40 minutes instead of having Jungle/Top build it, something has gone very wrong. I think it's more to make himself tankier even if his team already has one. In 90% of cases, Armor is going to be Taric's least necessary defensive stat because of his passive armor from W. Unless they're putting out some serious AoE damage though you never really need MR on supports like Taric/Leona/Blitz/Alistar. If their AP carry wants to burst me down over someone else they're welcome to it. And you generally have scaling MR glyphs + aegis anyway. A fair number of bot lane combinations have enough magic damage that if you're making a generic support rune page it's still worth getting flat MRes in Blues. (Corki, Ez, Trist, Leona, Taric to name but a few). If you have enough rune pages to make specialised rune pages for specific supports, then you are a richer person than I haha. Also, as for Yellows I have only ever liked GP10 Yellows on Leona and Taric. Even then, Armour Yellows would also have worked fine.
Interesting, I only use gp10 yellows on passive supports, and opt for armor yellows for leona and taric, (all while keeping gp10 quints).
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On August 10 2012 01:21 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 01:17 JackDino wrote:On August 10 2012 01:15 TheYango wrote:On August 10 2012 01:08 Sponkz wrote:
Also regarding taric i'm starting to like boots -> hog -> tabi -> aegis -> work towards frozen heart. Makes him a super strong force. If your team needs to wait on the support to finish FH at like 40 minutes instead of having Jungle/Top build it, something has gone very wrong. I think it's more to make himself tankier even if his team already has one. In 90% of cases, Armor is going to be Taric's least necessary defensive stat because of his passive armor from W.
Which he loses just for using his ability. No, I think armor is most important than MR to Taric, because he's still going to be taking mostly physical damage for the first 20 minutes. If you gimp yourself early on Taric and end up being a free kill every time their AD right clicks on you (obviously a good support wouldn't be that out of position) then you pretty much fucked yourself because Taric gets worse as time goes on.
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United States15536 Posts
On August 10 2012 01:25 Simberto wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 00:29 AsmodeusXI wrote:On August 10 2012 00:26 Gorsameth wrote:On August 10 2012 00:21 AsmodeusXI wrote:On August 10 2012 00:17 Gorsameth wrote:On August 10 2012 00:13 TheLink wrote:
How is no-one talking about Diana's login music? Thought I might sneak in a game or 2 before bed but I've spent 10 minutes listening to this on repeat now. Your about 50 pages late. I'll still talk about how awesome it is. I got your back. (it is 50 pages back tho) Also, on the subject of other unimportant things, is anyone else sad there's no weird Leona/Diana interaction buff/message or whatever? I assume one would have been found already if there were, and I know at least from personal experience that having them on opposing teams doesn't seem to do anything. It is kinda sad yes especially considering there is already the case of Zilian and Volibear but then again Nasus and Renekton would also be a case but isnt. I DEMAND MOAR ATTENTION TO LORE IN GAMEPLAY. That's probably a TL first, right? Recently, i have been asking myself if only major celestial bodies get avatars. Or are there a bunch of women on that solari peak that are the avatars of some random asteroid or star far away which have the ability to be completely uninteresting, for example? "I am the chosen of 89115 - XRS!"
It's not too far from this thought that we get a Chosen of Mars, Mercury, and Venus (or their Runeterran equivalents) and then we get a Sailor Moon skin team.
I am undecided if I would love this or LOATHE IT.
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On August 10 2012 01:32 AsmodeusXI wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 01:25 Simberto wrote:On August 10 2012 00:29 AsmodeusXI wrote:On August 10 2012 00:26 Gorsameth wrote:On August 10 2012 00:21 AsmodeusXI wrote:On August 10 2012 00:17 Gorsameth wrote:On August 10 2012 00:13 TheLink wrote:
How is no-one talking about Diana's login music? Thought I might sneak in a game or 2 before bed but I've spent 10 minutes listening to this on repeat now. Your about 50 pages late. I'll still talk about how awesome it is. I got your back. (it is 50 pages back tho) Also, on the subject of other unimportant things, is anyone else sad there's no weird Leona/Diana interaction buff/message or whatever? I assume one would have been found already if there were, and I know at least from personal experience that having them on opposing teams doesn't seem to do anything. It is kinda sad yes especially considering there is already the case of Zilian and Volibear but then again Nasus and Renekton would also be a case but isnt. I DEMAND MOAR ATTENTION TO LORE IN GAMEPLAY. That's probably a TL first, right? Recently, i have been asking myself if only major celestial bodies get avatars. Or are there a bunch of women on that solari peak that are the avatars of some random asteroid or star far away which have the ability to be completely uninteresting, for example? "I am the chosen of 89115 - XRS!" It's not too far from this thought that we get a Chosen of Mars, Mercury, and Venus (or their Runeterran equivalents) and then we get a Sailor Moon skin team. I am undecided if I would love this or LOATHE IT.
Captain Planet Jarman skin please.
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United States47024 Posts
On August 10 2012 01:30 Zdrastochye wrote:
Which he loses just for using his ability. No, I think armor is most important than MR to Taric, because he's still going to be taking mostly physical damage for the first 20 minutes. If you gimp yourself early on Taric and end up being a free kill every time their AD right clicks on you (obviously a good support wouldn't be that out of position) then you pretty much fucked yourself because Taric gets worse as time goes on.
Who said anything about the first 20 minutes?
The discussion is about Frozen Heart after Aegis, which you won't even START getting components for until after like 25 minutes.
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United States15536 Posts
On August 10 2012 01:34 Zdrastochye wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 01:32 AsmodeusXI wrote:On August 10 2012 01:25 Simberto wrote:On August 10 2012 00:29 AsmodeusXI wrote:On August 10 2012 00:26 Gorsameth wrote:On August 10 2012 00:21 AsmodeusXI wrote:On August 10 2012 00:17 Gorsameth wrote:On August 10 2012 00:13 TheLink wrote:
How is no-one talking about Diana's login music? Thought I might sneak in a game or 2 before bed but I've spent 10 minutes listening to this on repeat now. Your about 50 pages late. I'll still talk about how awesome it is. I got your back. (it is 50 pages back tho) Also, on the subject of other unimportant things, is anyone else sad there's no weird Leona/Diana interaction buff/message or whatever? I assume one would have been found already if there were, and I know at least from personal experience that having them on opposing teams doesn't seem to do anything. It is kinda sad yes especially considering there is already the case of Zilian and Volibear but then again Nasus and Renekton would also be a case but isnt. I DEMAND MOAR ATTENTION TO LORE IN GAMEPLAY. That's probably a TL first, right? Recently, i have been asking myself if only major celestial bodies get avatars. Or are there a bunch of women on that solari peak that are the avatars of some random asteroid or star far away which have the ability to be completely uninteresting, for example? "I am the chosen of 89115 - XRS!" It's not too far from this thought that we get a Chosen of Mars, Mercury, and Venus (or their Runeterran equivalents) and then we get a Sailor Moon skin team. I am undecided if I would love this or LOATHE IT. Captain Planet Jarman skin please.
Classic cartoon skins then? Darkwing Duck Anivia?
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On August 10 2012 01:30 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 01:27 Chiharu Harukaze wrote:On August 10 2012 01:24 TheLink wrote:On August 10 2012 01:21 TheYango wrote:On August 10 2012 01:17 JackDino wrote:On August 10 2012 01:15 TheYango wrote:On August 10 2012 01:08 Sponkz wrote:
Also regarding taric i'm starting to like boots -> hog -> tabi -> aegis -> work towards frozen heart. Makes him a super strong force. If your team needs to wait on the support to finish FH at like 40 minutes instead of having Jungle/Top build it, something has gone very wrong. I think it's more to make himself tankier even if his team already has one. In 90% of cases, Armor is going to be Taric's least necessary defensive stat because of his passive armor from W. Unless they're putting out some serious AoE damage though you never really need MR on supports like Taric/Leona/Blitz/Alistar. If their AP carry wants to burst me down over someone else they're welcome to it. And you generally have scaling MR glyphs + aegis anyway. A fair number of bot lane combinations have enough magic damage that if you're making a generic support rune page it's still worth getting flat MRes in Blues. (Corki, Ez, Trist, Leona, Taric to name but a few). If you have enough rune pages to make specialised rune pages for specific supports, then you are a richer person than I haha. Also, as for Yellows I have only ever liked GP10 Yellows on Leona and Taric. Even then, Armour Yellows would also have worked fine. Interesting, I only use gp10 yellows on passive supports, and opt for armor yellows for leona and taric, (all while keeping gp10 quints).
Best generic support page is ms quints, arm seals, arm marks, mres glyphs. Fuck gp10, make plays.
On August 10 2012 01:35 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 01:30 Zdrastochye wrote:
Which he loses just for using his ability. No, I think armor is most important than MR to Taric, because he's still going to be taking mostly physical damage for the first 20 minutes. If you gimp yourself early on Taric and end up being a free kill every time their AD right clicks on you (obviously a good support wouldn't be that out of position) then you pretty much fucked yourself because Taric gets worse as time goes on. Who said anything about the first 20 minutes? The discussion is about Frozen Heart after Aegis, which you won't even START getting components for until after like 25 minutes.
It's more for the glacial than for the actual frozen heart that i buy it. Dat cdr and mana.
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On August 10 2012 01:30 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 01:27 Chiharu Harukaze wrote:On August 10 2012 01:24 TheLink wrote:On August 10 2012 01:21 TheYango wrote:On August 10 2012 01:17 JackDino wrote:On August 10 2012 01:15 TheYango wrote:On August 10 2012 01:08 Sponkz wrote:
Also regarding taric i'm starting to like boots -> hog -> tabi -> aegis -> work towards frozen heart. Makes him a super strong force. If your team needs to wait on the support to finish FH at like 40 minutes instead of having Jungle/Top build it, something has gone very wrong. I think it's more to make himself tankier even if his team already has one. In 90% of cases, Armor is going to be Taric's least necessary defensive stat because of his passive armor from W. Unless they're putting out some serious AoE damage though you never really need MR on supports like Taric/Leona/Blitz/Alistar. If their AP carry wants to burst me down over someone else they're welcome to it. And you generally have scaling MR glyphs + aegis anyway. A fair number of bot lane combinations have enough magic damage that if you're making a generic support rune page it's still worth getting flat MRes in Blues. (Corki, Ez, Trist, Leona, Taric to name but a few). If you have enough rune pages to make specialised rune pages for specific supports, then you are a richer person than I haha. Also, as for Yellows I have only ever liked GP10 Yellows on Leona and Taric. Even then, Armour Yellows would also have worked fine. Interesting, I only use gp10 yellows on passive supports, and opt for armor yellows for leona and taric, (all while keeping gp10 quints).
Imo it makes more sense the way Chiharu does it. Taric/Leona have natural defensive steroids from their respective Ws so the need for armor is much lower. Passive supports, while they won't be front-lining as much as Taric/Leona, they will and do take hits here and there especially in lane where the support makes a lot of the plays. Couple that with the fact that most supports have low base stats you're going to want to be a little tankier in lane or risk gettin blown up.
That being said, I use gp10 runes on all my supports but that's cause i'm too lazy/cheap to make multiple rune pages for my supports x]
On August 10 2012 01:35 Sponkz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 01:35 TheYango wrote:On August 10 2012 01:30 Zdrastochye wrote:
Which he loses just for using his ability. No, I think armor is most important than MR to Taric, because he's still going to be taking mostly physical damage for the first 20 minutes. If you gimp yourself early on Taric and end up being a free kill every time their AD right clicks on you (obviously a good support wouldn't be that out of position) then you pretty much fucked yourself because Taric gets worse as time goes on. Who said anything about the first 20 minutes? The discussion is about Frozen Heart after Aegis, which you won't even START getting components for until after like 25 minutes. It's more for the glacial than for the actual frozen heart that i buy it. Dat cdr and mana.
Tbh I really don't think FH or Glacial is that good on supports. You get better stats building aura items like Aegis, Zeke. If you really want CDR, Kindlegem items provide plenty. Shurelias/Zekes or Shurelia/Locket+ masteries pretty much caps you out at cdr and it's much more useful than having a Glacial. Supports don't really use that much mana either so the mana portion of Glacial's somewhat wasted.
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On August 10 2012 01:35 Sponkz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 01:30 wei2coolman wrote:On August 10 2012 01:27 Chiharu Harukaze wrote:On August 10 2012 01:24 TheLink wrote:On August 10 2012 01:21 TheYango wrote:On August 10 2012 01:17 JackDino wrote:On August 10 2012 01:15 TheYango wrote:On August 10 2012 01:08 Sponkz wrote:
Also regarding taric i'm starting to like boots -> hog -> tabi -> aegis -> work towards frozen heart. Makes him a super strong force. If your team needs to wait on the support to finish FH at like 40 minutes instead of having Jungle/Top build it, something has gone very wrong. I think it's more to make himself tankier even if his team already has one. In 90% of cases, Armor is going to be Taric's least necessary defensive stat because of his passive armor from W. Unless they're putting out some serious AoE damage though you never really need MR on supports like Taric/Leona/Blitz/Alistar. If their AP carry wants to burst me down over someone else they're welcome to it. And you generally have scaling MR glyphs + aegis anyway. A fair number of bot lane combinations have enough magic damage that if you're making a generic support rune page it's still worth getting flat MRes in Blues. (Corki, Ez, Trist, Leona, Taric to name but a few). If you have enough rune pages to make specialised rune pages for specific supports, then you are a richer person than I haha. Also, as for Yellows I have only ever liked GP10 Yellows on Leona and Taric. Even then, Armour Yellows would also have worked fine. Interesting, I only use gp10 yellows on passive supports, and opt for armor yellows for leona and taric, (all while keeping gp10 quints). Best generic support page is ms quints, arm seals, arm marks, mres glyphs. Fuck gp10, make plays.
Ms quints are terrible on supports imo. Pretty useless most of the time.... unless you do the whole roaming support meta thingy.
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On August 10 2012 01:35 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 01:30 Zdrastochye wrote:
Which he loses just for using his ability. No, I think armor is most important than MR to Taric, because he's still going to be taking mostly physical damage for the first 20 minutes. If you gimp yourself early on Taric and end up being a free kill every time their AD right clicks on you (obviously a good support wouldn't be that out of position) then you pretty much fucked yourself because Taric gets worse as time goes on. Who said anything about the first 20 minutes? The discussion is about Frozen Heart after Aegis, which you won't even START getting components for until after like 25 minutes.
What you're saying about armor not being important for Taric is flawed though. You should build armor unless your bot lane has lots of magic damage, or if for some reason they have like 3 primarily magic damage champs.
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On August 10 2012 01:39 Zdrastochye wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 01:35 TheYango wrote:On August 10 2012 01:30 Zdrastochye wrote:
Which he loses just for using his ability. No, I think armor is most important than MR to Taric, because he's still going to be taking mostly physical damage for the first 20 minutes. If you gimp yourself early on Taric and end up being a free kill every time their AD right clicks on you (obviously a good support wouldn't be that out of position) then you pretty much fucked yourself because Taric gets worse as time goes on. Who said anything about the first 20 minutes? The discussion is about Frozen Heart after Aegis, which you won't even START getting components for until after like 25 minutes. What you're saying about armor not being important for Taric is flawed though. You should build armor unless your bot lane has lots of magic damage, or if for some reason they have like 3 primarily magic damage champs.
If you somehow are able to afford a Glacial before laning phase ends you're probably stompin hard enough and will win the game anyways... After laning, your aura+aegis is generally more than enough armor for you. Tabis can be good if you really really need the armor.
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On August 10 2012 01:39 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 01:35 Sponkz wrote:On August 10 2012 01:30 wei2coolman wrote:On August 10 2012 01:27 Chiharu Harukaze wrote:On August 10 2012 01:24 TheLink wrote:On August 10 2012 01:21 TheYango wrote:On August 10 2012 01:17 JackDino wrote:On August 10 2012 01:15 TheYango wrote:On August 10 2012 01:08 Sponkz wrote:
Also regarding taric i'm starting to like boots -> hog -> tabi -> aegis -> work towards frozen heart. Makes him a super strong force. If your team needs to wait on the support to finish FH at like 40 minutes instead of having Jungle/Top build it, something has gone very wrong. I think it's more to make himself tankier even if his team already has one. In 90% of cases, Armor is going to be Taric's least necessary defensive stat because of his passive armor from W. Unless they're putting out some serious AoE damage though you never really need MR on supports like Taric/Leona/Blitz/Alistar. If their AP carry wants to burst me down over someone else they're welcome to it. And you generally have scaling MR glyphs + aegis anyway. A fair number of bot lane combinations have enough magic damage that if you're making a generic support rune page it's still worth getting flat MRes in Blues. (Corki, Ez, Trist, Leona, Taric to name but a few). If you have enough rune pages to make specialised rune pages for specific supports, then you are a richer person than I haha. Also, as for Yellows I have only ever liked GP10 Yellows on Leona and Taric. Even then, Armour Yellows would also have worked fine. Interesting, I only use gp10 yellows on passive supports, and opt for armor yellows for leona and taric, (all while keeping gp10 quints). Best generic support page is ms quints, arm seals, arm marks, mres glyphs. Fuck gp10, make plays. Ms quints are terrible on supports imo. Pretty useless most of the time.... unless you do the whole roaming support meta thingy.
What? Try 1/16/13 with MS quints and notice how often you can catch people off guard for easy trading. Stop overrating gp10 seriously.
@Ryuu
I'm getting glacial after i get my aegis and kindlegem (read previous page). I don't get reverie.
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On August 10 2012 01:40 Ryuu314 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 01:39 Zdrastochye wrote:On August 10 2012 01:35 TheYango wrote:On August 10 2012 01:30 Zdrastochye wrote:
Which he loses just for using his ability. No, I think armor is most important than MR to Taric, because he's still going to be taking mostly physical damage for the first 20 minutes. If you gimp yourself early on Taric and end up being a free kill every time their AD right clicks on you (obviously a good support wouldn't be that out of position) then you pretty much fucked yourself because Taric gets worse as time goes on. Who said anything about the first 20 minutes? The discussion is about Frozen Heart after Aegis, which you won't even START getting components for until after like 25 minutes. What you're saying about armor not being important for Taric is flawed though. You should build armor unless your bot lane has lots of magic damage, or if for some reason they have like 3 primarily magic damage champs. If you somehow are able to afford a Glacial before laning phase ends you're probably stompin hard enough and will win the game anyways...
Well I'm assuming you're not playing Taric to not try to get kills. Live by the sword die by the karthus ult.
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EPT
