EPT[Patch 1.0.0.143: MidJuly-Zyra] General Discussion - Page 5
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
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Osmoses
Sweden5302 Posts
On July 19 2012 10:59 WaveofShadow wrote: No it didn't. If anything the reduced range just nerfed him all around. Have a look at some Reddit math: I don't know where those numbers are coming from, but I assuming they only concern his auto. His missile damage was buffed, and that's where most of his damage comes from. | ||
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Shirokuma
United States39 Posts
On July 19 2012 17:23 DURRHURRDERP wrote: Ryuu314 I would answer you seriously but first can I ask you three questions? 1) What's your elo? 2) What's your Kassadin winrate? 3) Have you actually done the numbers behind the Kassadin change? Er...? Why are you trying to whine at somebody who's right? Here's the math since you seem to be either A) too lazy to do it yourself or B) not kind enough to post the numbers you came up with. Lvl 11 Kassadin, just bought RoA, standard 21/0/9 page and standard AP runes. This is more or less the definition of Kass's mid game. Total AP - 111 1st Ult Old - 145.6 1st Ult New - 158.9 2nd Ult Old - 235.6 2nd Ult New - 228.9 3rd Ult Old - 325.6 3rd Ult New - 298.9 It makes almost 0 difference. The first cast is stronger because of the increased AP ratio, but stacking it at all levels has been reduced because subsequent stacks of the ult don't apply it. Kass players will feel 0 impact from this change. | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On July 19 2012 17:48 Shirokuma wrote: Er...? Why are you trying to whine at somebody who's right? Here's the math since you seem to be either A) too lazy to do it yourself or B) not kind enough to post the numbers you came up with. Lvl 11 Kassadin, just bought RoA, standard 21/0/9 page and standard AP runes. This is more or less the definition of Kass's mid game. Total AP - 111 1st Ult Old - 145.6 1st Ult New - 158.9 2nd Ult Old - 235.6 2nd Ult New - 228.9 3rd Ult Old - 325.6 3rd Ult New - 298.9 It makes almost 0 difference. The first cast is stronger because of the increased AP ratio, but stacking it at all levels has been reduced because subsequent stacks of the ult don't apply it. Kass players will feel 0 impact from this change. It still seems like a buff though. I think most Kass players rarely go beyond two stacks. | ||
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Shirokuma
United States39 Posts
On July 19 2012 17:50 Sufficiency wrote: It still seems like a buff though. I think most Kass players rarely go beyond two stacks. It is, but an incredibly minor one until end game, where your ult will do ~200 or so extra damage on the initial cast. In laning, 9 out of 10 times you're using R to get you in range to immediately cast Q, maybe E, and then back out. You're not dropping yourself on top of the AP carry to let them chase you down and burst you as soon as silence fades, so the damage from the ult shouldn't be a factor anyways. Compare this to the buff that increased the cooldown of his ult and you'll agree that this one seems fairly irrelevant. | ||
Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21242 Posts
http://www.lolking.net/summoner/na/20921409#profile Took like 2 seconds  Were you hoping he was like unranked or something? | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
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Cubu
1171 Posts
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Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21242 Posts
On July 19 2012 18:00 Ryuu314 wrote: I'm not even arguing whether it's a buff or nerf. I just think it's a completely pointless change that will have very little effect on Kassadin's gameplay. Sure, it's a damage buff when you hit 130+ AP at low stacks, which is definitely nice, and I have used it for damage before. The damage on R even helped me win exchanges and gotten me kills I otherwise wouldn't have gotten, but ultimately, Kassadin's ult is used for the insane maneuverability. The damage is a bonus. This change does next to nothing for him because stacking the ult results in lower damage than before; only the initial riftwalk is buffed. And correct me if I'm wrong, but in teamfights if you're riftwalking into the enemy team you're probably going to get cc'd and killed instantly cause you're still pretty squishy even if you build Roa->Abyssal. http://i.imgur.com/85ISo.jpg Using ult for damage~ | ||
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DURRHURRDERP
Canada929 Posts
2142, 70.2% winrate on Kassadin (I play him in recent ranked games too, check my match history). (fk ninja'd) In fact I can do one better. I've been recording my games since around the beginning of the month on an excel spreadsheet and I can provide some more stats for my games. Kassadin games: 1) July 7th - 2104 -> 2116 (W) : 7 / 1 / 6 2) July 8th - 1995 -> 2007 (W) : 4 / 0 / 1 3) July 10th - 2046 -> 2058 (W) : 6 / 3 / 12 4) July 11th - 2043 -> 2056 (W) : 17 / 3 / 18 5) July 12th - 2082 -> 2095 (W) : 10 / 1 / 11 6) July 12th - 2071 -> 2056 (L) : 4 / 3 / 5 7) July 13th - 2058 -> 2069 (W) : 3 / 0 / 11 8) July 13th - 2033 -> 2047 (W) : 10 / 3 / 8 9) July 13th - 2070 -> 2083 (W) : 10 / 3 / 9 10) July 14th - 2099 -> 2087 (L) : 1 / 4 / 2 11) July 14th - 2087 -> 2075 (L) : 7 / 6 / 5 12) July 14th - 2087 -> 2077 (L) : 8 / 5 / 4 13) July 14th - 2076 -> 2090 (W) : 4 / 3 / 9 14) July 18th - 2102 -> 2116 (W) : 15 / 3 / 13 15) July 18th - 2116 -> 2129 (W) : 7 / 1 / 9 16) July 18th - 2129 -> 2142 (W) : 11 / 3 / 11 As for the numbers: Kassadin Riftwalk Damage reduced to 60/70/80 from 60/90/120 Ability Power ratio increased to 0.8 from 0.5 First of all the breakeven point is 67 AP at lvl 2 of his ult (lvl 11) and 133 AP at lvl 3 (lvl 16). If you only have 67 AP at lvl 11 and 133 AP at lvl 16 on Kassadin you're not playing him right. Second, if you're not using your ult as a component of your burst (especially in teamfights), you're also not playing him right. During a teamfight you're only going to be using the 1st cast (and at most a 2nd cast to finish) as part of your burst. After using your full burst on 1-2 targets you generally won't have the mana (blue buff or not) to chase very far with your charged ults so you wait for it to get back to 1 cast anyway. | ||
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DURRHURRDERP
Canada929 Posts
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Lmui
Canada6208 Posts
The cheapest way to build a large mana pool is actually getting a tear. It's the most cost efficient item if you just need the mana pool and sona charges a tear extremely quickly. It also provides some mp5 (even more if you count the fact that every time you cast a skill, its mana cost is 4 less than normal since you gain 4 mana from the tear charging.) The other item that's viable is a chalice which gives sona MR and massive mana regeneration in combination with a shurelyas. It's not something I personally like since I like rushing aegis on sona to complement her W resists. On playing sona though: Against semi-passive lanes involving supports like janna, soraka, , I like Q>W>E>R going QWQEQ I personally haven't played her as much recently but I think her level 4 combo might be a bit wince inducing. With Q aura up, she has: 96 damage powerchord + 67 damage autoattack 67 damage autoattack while hitting W+E Q for 100 damage 96 damage powerchord +67 damage auto = ~500 damage combo With ~40 of each resist that'll still do ~350 damage, pretty scary for a support. There's no CC but paired with a sufficiently bursty AD like tristana, that could probably burst someone down pretty hard. Looking at the numbers, it's ~100 damage higher than a leona would do at the same level, including the 3 sunlight procs that she can put out. It looks like it has potential if you can get around how innately squishy sona is in comparison to some other supports. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
Another random question while watching Gosu Pepper soloQing with LS on his team: can somebody explain me how does LS fall off late game? When I look at him, he's got a lot of utility (one of the best AS slows in the game), innate tankiness that entices him to build resistances, good mobility.... is it the range of his cc (E+ult) and the fact that he lacks offensive steroids to compensate for his need to build tanky that make him drop? Nocturne for example doesn't look much better to me, but he's got a good AD and AS steroid to compensate for the lack of damage in his tanky builds. | ||
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DURRHURRDERP
Canada929 Posts
On July 19 2012 17:55 Shirokuma wrote: It is, but an incredibly minor one until end game, where your ult will do ~200 or so extra damage on the initial cast. In laning, 9 out of 10 times you're using R to get you in range to immediately cast Q, maybe E, and then back out. You're not dropping yourself on top of the AP carry to let them chase you down and burst you as soon as silence fades, so the damage from the ult shouldn't be a factor anyways. Compare this to the buff that increased the cooldown of his ult and you'll agree that this one seems fairly irrelevant. Actually I pretty much do this. | ||
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Lmui
Canada6208 Posts
On July 19 2012 18:01 Cubu wrote: why did they nerf urgot? He made a poor ad carry and a poor tank. Spamming acid hunter from safety was all that he was good for. He was never an AD carry, he is an AD ranged caster and a lane dominator. He's good with soraka, taric, janna all of which make him stupidly hard to kill and in addition, wrecked the enemy duo bot. Soraka gives him infinite mana and allows him to open a dorans blade for more damage, taric stun + armor shred, janna gives a massive AD steroid. If he hit his corrosive charge and then 3 acid hunters at level 3, you're going to lose a third to half your health pretty easily. After brutalizer, with taric/janna, he could take off 60% of someone's health with three acid hunters. It mandated perfect play from the enemy AD carry just to stay alive and farm in lane. His midgame also happened to be absurdly strong since his ultimate meant that having an AD carry poke at a tower was pretty much a death sentence for the AD. There was no good way to push a tower in the midgame safely beyond having a large advantage beforehand or just throwing creeps at it. | ||
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JackDino
Gabon6219 Posts
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Plague1503
Croatia466 Posts
Not sure how to level skills though, I did w (for the passive) > Q > E and then max R > Q > E > W, is there a better way? Should I max W before E? | ||
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Goragoth
New Zealand1065 Posts
Another question: what's the best way to build on-hit Lulu? Been playing her as support a bit in low-level blind pick normals, and if we don't have a proper AD carry pick or the AD carry is really bad I'll try to pick up the slack instead. Lulu with a ton of ASpd is the funniest thing too: constant stream of pixie dust. | ||
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Shirokuma
United States39 Posts
On July 19 2012 19:07 Goragoth wrote: Quick question since Sona was being discussed: what about her makes building her as AD carry (semi) viable vs other ranged supports? Another question: what's the best way to build on-hit Lulu? Been playing her as support a bit in low-level blind pick normals, and if we don't have a proper AD carry pick or the AD carry is really bad I'll try to pick up the slack instead. Lulu with a ton of ASpd is the funniest thing too: constant stream of pixie dust. Solid attack animation, self buffs, and her passive lets you level people with Q + a triforce. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
AP Evelynn will be able to easily oneshot people with DFG, however Leblanc can already do that on a much lower cooldown and she is ranged so I doubt that'll be much of a problems. | ||
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