EPT[Patch 1.0.0.143: MidJuly-Zyra] General Discussion - Page…
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On July 31 2012 00:43 ItsFunToLose wrote: same goes for 5,000% more gold than enemy top lane. Not really sure what your point is. That a player that I watch make retarded plays in lane has a higher probability of making retarded plays later in the game as well. Do you get players that get trashed in lane that end up playing very well in fights? Yes. Do you get players that get way ahead in lane and throw their advantage by making stupid decisions later? Yes. But it's far more frequent that players that play well do so the whole game, and players that play poorly also do so the whole game. | ||
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
On July 31 2012 00:49 VirgilSC2 wrote: I had a game with LPractice yesterday where I was TF against Lux mid, and anyone in TeamSpeak could probably vouch for the amount of times I said "WTF that was nowhere near me!" in reference to Lux Qs The laser bug has been around for a while though, even direct hits sometimes bug out. I've seen it specifically with Lux where a laser went right through me. (and i was at like 150 hp) | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23464 Posts
It's also much easier to play well when you're ahead than when you're behind. "Taxing" lanes should be based on overall farm denied from their lane//gained by you versus how much he'd gain getting all the farm himself, don't base your judgement on self-righteous assement of worth of the player. | ||
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BlackPaladin
United States9316 Posts
On July 31 2012 01:04 Slayer91 wrote: You DO NOT have to be retarded to fall behind really far in a top lane. Sometimes even trying to cs is a calculated risk before you have any wards. It's also much easier to play well when you're ahead than when you're behind. "Taxing" lanes should be based on overall farm denied from their lane//gained by you versus how much he'd gain getting all the farm himself, don't base your judgement on self-righteous assement of worth of the player. This. Half the bs being spewed so far in favor of taxing sounds like people who never even played top lane before.... | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On July 31 2012 01:04 Slayer91 wrote: You DO NOT have to be retarded to fall behind really far in a top lane. Sometimes even trying to cs is a calculated risk before you have any wards. There's a difference between falling behind and playing like shit. You can tell the difference. The one falling behind is getting pushed out, has a bad matchup, is getting camped, etc. The one playing like shit is standing in lane with 20% health and no mana, is diving when the enemy is full health, has teleport but never comes to fights even when there's a ward on Dragon, and wanders in to contest enemy buffs when the entire enemy team is mia. Like I said, you assist the former and don't take his farm. The latter is likely a lost cause. Edit: Yes, it's kind of a dick move to judge people, but I only do it when it's very obvious that the person is just a bad player. My original example (Veigar vs Akali, Veigar literally died every time he was in lane, 70 CS behind at all points, blames everyone else, facechecks their blue when the enemy jungler is mia) is what I'm talking about, not taxing someone who's just behind. | ||
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On July 31 2012 01:15 zulu_nation8 wrote: so by "taxing" a losing lane you essentially make sure he can never catch up and have any positive impact on the game and also piss off someone whos already probably raging and on tilt, sounds like a good plan to win game. Did you even read what I posted? I have no problem helping people behind, camping for them or giving them buffs/farm if necessary. Did my actions in that game suck for Veigar? Yeah, probably. He was probably angry and raging at his monitor, and that sucks. Would giving him Blue and not taking the wave's worth of farm have made him play better? I'm going to go with no. When I watch him stand under the enemy turret at half health vs Akali and a missing jungle (I think it was WW), that farm doesn't stop him from dying instantly. He didn't land a stun but like, twice all game, and missed about 50% of his Dark Matters (that's the meteor, right? Don't play him :S) even against just creeps. So yeah, if my taking his farm and blues meant I go 6-1-12 (or something like that) and we win the game, well that sucks for him. If it was a normal I wouldn't care, but I only get like 1-2 rankeds per night during the work week, I'm not going to give it up so a guy can learn to be better while we lose. Edit: This also isn't something I just decided by talking to him. 15 minutes in he's at half her farm and 0-4 ish, and shows no signs of playing safe or buying wards. I do not regret marking him off as lost cause. I didn't want to post all that info because it belongs in QQ thread, but that's the kind of person I'm talking about. They basically already make the game a 4v5 (4.5v5 at best, since they occasionally draw fire from you), so I feel no shame in cutting him out. | ||
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Simberto
Germany12072 Posts
On July 31 2012 00:43 VirgilSC2 wrote: Yes, we're under the assumption that said solo laner is already below 50% of his opponents gold and basically can't even go into lane anymore. Then you're running into the issue where your jungler isn't 100% on the dynamic of WHEN to shove top lane. If the wave is reset middle, or pushing towards their tower already, it's a good time to shove it back to their tower and let the tower reset the wave again. If the wave is pushing towards YOUR tower it's best to leave it alone and let your solo lane farm under tower UNLESS the enemy is already so far ahead that your tower is inconsequential to them killing you. Which brings us to another point. If you just died/backed out of your lane, and won't be back there for another 30 seconds, and your jungler goes in there and, depending on situation, shoves to turret or takes lasthits, don't spam retreat on him. It is SO annoying. I know what i do. You won't be back there anytime soon. If i push your lane, i do it in a way that it will reset back to middle before you are back. Or i might just take some lasthits instead of letting the tower have those. You lose NOTHING. NOTHING at all. So don't be all clingy about your lane that noone may touch it. After all, you would take my golems or wraiths without a second thought, so don't get all sad if i ever touch one creep in your lane that does not influence you at all. Different Topic: Skarner. I read someone saying something about Wits End on him on the last page. What is the verdict here, is Wits End or Sheen better on him? I'd have guessed that given his skillsset, if you build sheen on anyone, it should be him. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23464 Posts
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
On July 31 2012 01:24 Requizen wrote: Did you even read what I posted? I have no problem helping people behind, camping for them or giving them buffs/farm if necessary. Did my actions in that game suck for Veigar? Yeah, probably. He was probably angry and raging at his monitor, and that sucks. Would giving him Blue and not taking the wave's worth of farm have made him play better? I'm going to go with no. When I watch him stand under the enemy turret at half health vs Akali and a missing jungle (I think it was WW), that farm doesn't stop him from dying instantly. He didn't land a stun but like, twice all game, and missed about 50% of his Dark Matters (that's the meteor, right? Don't play him :S) even against just creeps. So yeah, if my taking his farm and blues meant I go 6-1-12 (or something like that) and we win the game, well that sucks for him. If it was a normal I wouldn't care, but I only get like 1-2 rankeds per night during the work week, I'm not going to give it up so a guy can learn to be better while we lose. Edit: This also isn't something I just decided by talking to him. 15 minutes in he's at half her farm and 0-4 ish, and shows no signs of playing safe or buying wards. I do not regret marking him off as lost cause. I didn't want to post all that info because it belongs in QQ thread, but that's the kind of person I'm talking about. They basically already make the game a 4v5 (4.5v5 at best, since they occasionally draw fire from you), so I feel no shame in cutting him out. it just sounds like youre mad at someone feeding rather than trying to win the game. You don't have to give him blue but taking his farm that he could've had is 100% stupid. | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On July 31 2012 01:28 Simberto wrote: Which brings us to another point. If you just died/backed out of your lane, and won't be back there for another 30 seconds, and your jungler goes in there and, depending on situation, shoves to turret or takes lasthits, don't spam retreat on him. It is SO annoying. I know what i do. You won't be back there anytime soon. If i push your lane, i do it in a way that it will reset back to middle before you are back. Or i might just take some lasthits instead of letting the tower have those. You lose NOTHING. NOTHING at all. So don't be all clingy about your lane that noone may touch it. After all, you would take my golems or wraiths without a second thought, so don't get all sad if i ever touch one creep in your lane that does not influence you at all. Different Topic: Skarner. I read someone saying something about Wits End on him on the last page. What is the verdict here, is Wits End or Sheen better on him? I'd have guessed that given his skillsset, if you build sheen on anyone, it should be him. Wit's. AS is boss on him because of his passive (more hits means more shield and more damage), and the defenses are great. Sheen is a good item on him if you're going more straight damage (the AP to shield is minuscule from a defensive standpoint), especially if you're rushing TF. However, most of the time you're building tanky-dps on him, and the MR keeps you alive while fighting and lets you spam your shield more. If you get fed out the butt and can rush a super fast TF, I'd say go for it, but I prefer Wit's 99% of the time. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23464 Posts
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
Sure, sometimes it backfires, but it still comes back to the point that I will put more faith in myself than someone else. That way, if I fuck up, I can actually blame myself and then work to get better instead of wondering what if Edit: Also, skill shots have been very unreliable lately. I'll get hit by ones that I shouldn't get hit by or I will miss something that clearly should have hit. Not sure what they did, but they must have messed up the coding somewhere. | ||
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nyxnyxnyx
Indonesia2978 Posts
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On July 31 2012 01:32 zulu_nation8 wrote: it just sounds like youre mad at someone feeding rather than trying to win the game. You don't have to give him blue but taking his farm that he could've had is 100% stupid. How is it stupid? The gold is either going to go to me or him (or no one, since his last hitting was balls). If I let him take it, it would have been wasted. If I took it myself, I could get items faster, or buy wards (which he wasn't doing) for the team, or pick up an Oracles. That gold is going to go somewhere, it's better for the team if it goes somewhere that's going to be useful. I didn't do it out of pettiness, I wasn't flaming him while taking his farm. If I let him have it, it was more or less wasted. Could he have gotten a DC earlier? Maybe, but that would not have helped him, since he either died instantly without doing damage or missed half his combo. It's not petty to be efficient. | ||
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Simberto
Germany12072 Posts
On July 31 2012 01:36 nyxnyxnyx wrote: what are everyone's thoughts on revive shen. yay or nay? In my opinion, does not sound too good. You change your splitpushing shen monster to someone who is in a teamfight two times. But usually, shen is not really one of the first guys to die anyways. It works on karthus because people want to kill him, but shen should be one of the last people to die unless he gets caught anyways, and at that point revive is not so useful anymore. And if you do the splitpushing you should want to do, it is completely useless since you then have no ult to back it up anymore. Also, you are obviously weaker in lane, which always needs to be considered, too. But i don't really have experience with it, either. | ||
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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Navi
5286 Posts
1. The person they are stealing from has superior scaling or snowballing And 2. The person in question normally has a tough time csing Whenever a jungler comes and steals easy cs from, say, kassadin, or a support who is holding a different lane (and they really deserve that extra farm and gold) I kind of facepalm. If theres an immediate objective that must be rushed to or pushing an enemy creepwave to tower would make no difference or even help your laner then "taxing" the lane is fine imo. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On July 31 2012 01:36 nyxnyxnyx wrote: what are everyone's thoughts on revive shen. yay or nay? Revive always feels like there are too many "if"s to making it work. - Your revive needs to be up (the CD is stupid long) - You need to have Ult or TP to get back into the fight (having no combat/escape summoners presents its own significant problems, both for laning and teamfighting if you take TP, and if you don't you can't use ult to split push because you need to have the ult to get back into the fight after dying). - You need to die early enough that there are still people worth ulting to after you Revive (teamfights need to be engaged in a way that you're the first to die--and there are a lot of teamcomps that simply don't allow you to be the first one to die). | ||
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