EPTFor example, you could know a champ can do A. You're confident with A, and you feel it's good to do, but if done, the opponent often will do B, which you didn't know is a good way to counter your A. So you try to counter with doing C, but then they do D. Higher level players often really know matchups more intimately than a lower level player will, so learn from how they play, how they react to different movements and situations, instead of yell "WHY WON'T YOU GIVE ME A BREAK!!!??" ask yourself "what could I have done better?" or "in this situation what would be better than going to lane to get tower dove and die 2 seconds later?" You'll never learn if you're spoon fed bullshit like "oh, yeah man, you're awesome, here, kill me so I can feed your ego." Learn from your mistakes and maybe ask those players for pointers on how to improve. That's the point of this practice group, isn't it?
[NA] TeamLiquid Practice Group - Page 25
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BlackPaladin
United States9316 Posts
For example, you could know a champ can do A. You're confident with A, and you feel it's good to do, but if done, the opponent often will do B, which you didn't know is a good way to counter your A. So you try to counter with doing C, but then they do D. Higher level players often really know matchups more intimately than a lower level player will, so learn from how they play, how they react to different movements and situations, instead of yell "WHY WON'T YOU GIVE ME A BREAK!!!??" ask yourself "what could I have done better?" or "in this situation what would be better than going to lane to get tower dove and die 2 seconds later?" You'll never learn if you're spoon fed bullshit like "oh, yeah man, you're awesome, here, kill me so I can feed your ego." Learn from your mistakes and maybe ask those players for pointers on how to improve. That's the point of this practice group, isn't it? | ||
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JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/pPRzU.jpg) Feel free to mock the AP item, it was bought with GP5 earned while I was having a cigarette, which was the longest portion of the game I spent without dying. This isn't a fun learning environment. It isn't conducive to learning either, because the "Practice" part of the whole thing is physically fucking impossible when you're getting shit on like this. And that frustrating of a game isn't going to make anyone give a shit. At no point have I asked people to let me farm them or hand me free kills. Feel free to quote me where I said that, or stop accusing me of requesting it. If I have a game like this against random people, it happens, tough shit. If I have it in what's supposed to be a friendly practice environment, it's annoying. A pro football player playing backyard 2 hand touch with his kid and his kid's friends isn't going to land bonebreaking hits, because the whole fun thing kinda goes out the window. A football team in training isn't going to try to kill each other, because they want people able to bring their A game on the field. Like I said. If you guys don't want a fun, noob-friendly learning environment, that's up to you. But be willing to say that. Don't put it off as crying. Oh, and I'm tired of getting told to "ask for advice". Advice isn't going to help with bad mechanics, which is by far my biggest problem. I last hit for shit, and I overextend a hair trying to last hit. That's shit where you need time practicing it to improve. Not time spent dead. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On July 29 2012 12:18 JingleHell wrote: Oh, and I'm tired of getting told to "ask for advice". Advice isn't going to help with bad mechanics, which is by far my biggest problem. I last hit for shit, and I overextend a hair trying to last hit. That's shit where you need time practicing it to improve. Not time spent dead. In which case, the most efficient way to practice is to spam 1v1 and 2v2 practice, which Navi said like 10 pages ago lol. | ||
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De4ngus
United States6533 Posts
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ReedTheBest
6 Posts
On July 29 2012 11:58 NeoIllusions wrote: For clarity, how many times did Jingle die in lane? Jingle gave up first blood and it started to snowball. He probably died about 8 times before the outer tower was downed. We were tower doven multiple times at least 3. I mostly think the tower dives were a bit excessive as they were reckless and unecessary and usually got the divers killed but also killed jingle everytime. I hope he doesn't mind me saying this...but aaerox (who i assume is a good, respected player) was raging on how assholish the other team was being. and that he never tries this hard to shit on the other team and next time he plays with those guys he will go tryhard mode. The thing is that you guys know you can crush jingle in lane. i mean he had 30cs at 15 minutes. do you really need to farm him for more kills at the tower? | ||
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HazMat
United States17077 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
On July 29 2012 12:35 HazMat wrote: Jingle afk'd in 2 inhouses out of 4 that I've played with him. Yea but it's us. That's funny, I remember one where I fucked up and hit the wrong button to chat when RL popped up and I had to leave on short notice at something like 35-40 minutes in, but unless you're counting the one being talked about, where I went for a smoke because the game was already over, you're full of shit to say twice. | ||
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De4ngus
United States6533 Posts
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Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21248 Posts
On July 29 2012 12:31 De4ngus wrote: i come into channel everyday asking if anyone want 1v1 or 2v2 practice but people only seem to wanna do 5v5 inhouses lol. also jinglehell, advice does help with bad mechanics. Despite the pretense of "improving," most people actually just want to play random pick-up in houses which are really really bad for actually trying to improve compared to the other options... As people said, it's basically the same as solo queue with a slightly politer group of people in terms of how much you're gonna get out of it lol... If you want to learn mechanics, just play 1v1/2v2 lanes. Much more efficient. If you want to practice, play scrims with a regular group of people on the same team. | ||
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Nehsb
United States380 Posts
On July 29 2012 12:18 JingleHell wrote:Oh, and I'm tired of getting told to "ask for advice". Advice isn't going to help with bad mechanics, which is by far my biggest problem. I last hit for shit, and I overextend a hair trying to last hit. That's shit where you need time practicing it to improve. Not time spent dead. If you want some feedback: you need to pay way more attention to creepwave size for engaging. Your first death was because you tried to engage into us when we had 7 creeps attacking you. Again, sorry for diving you so much. On a sidenote, I don't like the "balance lanes" solution; I've learned a lot from laning vs. milo, aaerox, etc. because they abuse opportunities. I also don't like "don't snowball lanes" because I'd like to learn how to stop a lane from snowballing. I would prefer just to have better communication inside a game as to whether or not it would be ok to lane how, etc. Like, JingleHell said before the game something along the lines of "I don't want to lane vs. stxz" but I didn't realize it was a serious request until after the game. | ||
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JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
On July 29 2012 12:43 Nehsb wrote: On a sidenote, I don't like the "balance lanes" solution; I've learned a lot from laning vs. milo, aaerox, etc. because they abuse opportunities. You're also in a position where small tricks and techniques are more relevant. If a bronze league enters MLG as a competitor, does he have a chance at winning as long as he knows every recent development in the meta? | ||
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Nehsb
United States380 Posts
On July 29 2012 12:47 JingleHell wrote: You're also in a position where small tricks and techniques are more relevant. If a bronze league enters MLG as a competitor, does he have a chance at winning as long as he knows every recent development in the meta? Hmm, could you make it very clear before the game that you were serious about "I don't want to lane vs. stxz?" Because I just saw that as a non-serious semi-compliment to stxz, instead of an actual request. In general I think these situations could be avoided if there was just more communication between the teams. On July 29 2012 12:42 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: Despite the pretense of "improving," most people actually just want to play random pick-up in houses which are really really bad for actually trying to improve compared to the other options... As people said, it's basically the same as solo queue with a slightly politer group of people in terms of how much you're gonna get out of it lol... If you want to learn mechanics, just play 1v1/2v2 lanes. Much more efficient. If you want to practice, play scrims with a regular group of people on the same team. I don't completely agree; sure most of my games have been pretty average, but theres a few games with the higher elo players who've taught me a lot by laning vs. me/giving me advice. | ||
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AUGcodon
Canada536 Posts
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JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
On July 29 2012 12:53 Nehsb wrote: Hmm, could you make it very clear before the game that you were serious about "I don't want to lane vs. stxz?" Because I just saw that as a non-serious semi-compliment to stxz, instead of an actual request. In general I think these situations could be avoided if there was just more communication between the teams. I seriously doubt it would help, because frankly, the community is showing it's face pretty clearly here. You, at least, seem to understand where I'm coming from, as do a few others, but overall, the whole "Just another crybaby noob d-bag" attitude is pretty pathetic. I'm doing my best to avoid ad homs about the type of person who takes pleasure in those kinds of statement, but I don't see a whole lot of value in spending my somewhat limited leisure time trying to excavate tiny shards of fun from curbstomps, and if the community is a waste of effort, the solo queue makes a whole lot more sense to me. Especially if the overall community consensus is that you improve at a game by not actually playing because you're dead. | ||
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BlackPaladin
United States9316 Posts
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Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21248 Posts
On July 29 2012 12:53 Nehsb wrote: I don't completely agree; sure most of my games have been pretty average, but theres a few games with the higher elo players who've taught me a lot by laning vs. me/giving me advice. You don't need to play a full 5v5 game to benefit from that sort of advice :\ A 10 minute 1v1 session would yield just as much, if not more... | ||
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bakarofl
49 Posts
Most people will just have too much fun and enjoyment in smashing someone way worse than them so don't even bother until you get better yourself PS: if shitting on someone that's probably sub 1k elo is fun, then stick to beginner coop vs ai please | ||
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HazMat
United States17077 Posts
On July 29 2012 12:59 JingleHell wrote: I seriously doubt it would help, because frankly, the community is showing it's face pretty clearly here. You, at least, seem to understand where I'm coming from, as do a few others, but overall, the whole "Just another crybaby noob d-bag" attitude is pretty pathetic. I'm doing my best to avoid ad homs about the type of person who takes pleasure in those kinds of statement, but I don't see a whole lot of value in spending my somewhat limited leisure time trying to excavate tiny shards of fun from curbstomps, and if the community is a waste of effort, the solo queue makes a whole lot more sense to me. Especially if the overall community consensus is that you improve at a game by not actually playing because you're dead. Judging by the popularity of these and people's endorsments I think people are actually enjoying these and learning and maybe you're doing something wrong if you find it a waste of time. I'm just confused how you can shit talk the community so much with 9k+ posts. Just martyr yourself already. | ||
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DURRHURRDERP
Canada929 Posts
For example, this was what happened after my first game with you (and, god willing, only game), and also the reason why I do not wish to play with or against you in the future in these practice games: Context: Jinglehell built manamune/CDR boots on varus and went like 0-7, noone really even noticed his build until after the game. JingleHell joined the room. TechnoMelody joined the room. barackopala joined the room. xFrawr joined the room. kerrDOG2 X17 joined the room. DURRHURRDERP joined the room. Bezelheim joined the room. ticklishmusic joined the room. MCMilo joined the room. SG Bear Barbsq joined the room. MCMilo: what the hell MCMilo: build DURRHURRDERP: ? DURRHURRDERP: i learn from da legend of games MCMilo: manamune ionian brutalizer MCMilo: got to be kidding me JingleHell: don't wana play with noobs, go play ranked, shithead JingleHell: in other words, kiss my ass MCMilo: ? barackopala: .-. DURRHURRDERP: uh ticklishmusic: chillllllllllll a little MCMilo: ???????????????????????? MCMilo: ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????/ JingleHell: or approachit hella better barackopala: dude im unranked and even i know how to play an AD carry, just dont try to get those items next time barackopala: please. MCMilo: or understand that just getting normal items MCMilo: is better MCMilo: than that JingleHell: want to offer advice, don't talk shit, offer advice MCMilo: lol. DURRHURRDERP: ok DURRHURRDERP: jinglehell i give u advice MCMilo: there's no such advice needed in my honest opinion barackopala: Well, it seems we got a player to go to bannlist @-@ DURRHURRDERP: dont buy those items DURRHURRDERP: on ad carry ticklishmusic: adc start boots +3 ticklishmusic: then rush ie and beserkers DURRHURRDERP: blitz dont rush FH either DURRHURRDERP: esp when amumu gets it kerrDOG2 X17: yea u need tear kerrDOG2 X17: on blitz DURRHURRDERP: no kerrDOG2 X17: 2k shields JingleHell: manamune was actually suggested for a lot of AD builds last time i played this game regularly DURRHURRDERP: lol ticklishmusic: too gold starved, i said screw it DURRHURRDERP: tear isnt good either TechnoMelody: Shurelias DURRHURRDERP: u could have got like MCMilo: oh man.. DURRHURRDERP: shurelya / zekes etc DURRHURRDERP: since amumu got aegis JingleHell: so yeah, maybe I could spend twelve hours learning the entire current metagame, or I could try to have fun by playing ticklishmusic: usually i do philo>boots>kage>aegis ticklishmusic: yeah ticklishmusic: i wanted glacial for cdr and mana MCMilo: great ticklishmusic: but then i was just so poor so i said screw it MCMilo: now i'm bad guy ggg DURRHURRDERP: jinglehell if you're unsure of what to build why didnt you ask someone on your team DURRHURRDERP: ? DURRHURRDERP: instead of getting defensive when people look at your items after the game and tell you its bad (after the fact) JingleHell: because my team decided to troll me at the start by telling me go AP JingleHell: so why the hell would i ask questions MCMilo: LOL kerrDOG2 X17: rofl MCMilo: WHAT MCMilo: LOL JingleHell: when they mention it was a joke last second kerrDOG2 X17: umad MCMilo: :< JingleHell: ticklish told me that shit during select, milo JingleHell: so yeah JingleHell: would you ask after that? MCMilo: yes... MCMilo: i ask everything i'm not sure of MCMilo: to a person MCMilo: that i know is more knowledgable MCMilo: :/ JingleHell: i wouldn't. bad advice suggests i should just do what i remember from forever ago MCMilo: oh boy. You could have saved everyone the trouble and simply asked before or during the game what are good items on Varus, but you chose to waste your own time (and everyone else's) by doing a build that is terrible simply out of pride and ego. Also you claimed that someone told you to build AP Varus before the game (obviously a joke) and because of that one comment it was obvious that no one wanted to help you. | ||
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