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On July 12 2012 01:17 Seuss wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 00:04 Vaporized wrote:i played several more jayce games yesterday. i saw the approved jungle guide at solomid and i tried his build. it worked better then anything else i have tried in the jungle, but still was rather unsatisfying. its a q-w-e order to max and was ok. he did have a lot of little tips to maximize jayces clear and use his ult passives to clear asap, plus some videos on how to do combos. it was a good guide really, but his first clear is still abysmally bad. here is a link to the guide if anyone wants to check it out. http://solomid.net/guides.php?g=29470i tried some different builds top lane also with great success. i cant stop with my gp5 builds. dorans might give me a stronger early game (where with gp5 he is truly weak), but once you get your first damage item the game can quickly swing to your favor. i went philo hog merc tread bt wits hexdrinker triforce maw and was dominating. i just started getting maw on champs like jayce and hecarim and man that is a good item. i also maxed q first in lane instead of e and it was amazing for poke and wave clearing. i havent tried a true ad build (ie pd bt etc) maybe i will give that a shot tonight. I'm 190% certain that WQE is a better opening on Jayce. Hammer-Q's damage is non-existent at rank 1/without bonus AD and has a ridiculously long cooldown. Range-Q's damage is less than that of Hammer-W's. Meanwhile, Range-W is an auto-reset + three quick attacks. There's really no contest between level 1 Q and level 1 W, even if you plan on maxing Q first. Also, CA+5p is always a glaring red flag. Junglers who require that opening to clear safely and effectively are never competitive.
im not sure what your point is. no one said he was a good jungler.
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is awesome32281 Posts
On July 12 2012 01:25 Alaric wrote:
Do you dislike counterjungling with Mundo because cloth+5 is quite safer when doing so, instead of boots+3, or is it an exception in your book?
Keyword: require
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On July 12 2012 01:32 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 01:31 Perplex wrote:On July 12 2012 01:17 Seuss wrote:On July 12 2012 00:04 Vaporized wrote:i played several more jayce games yesterday. i saw the approved jungle guide at solomid and i tried his build. it worked better then anything else i have tried in the jungle, but still was rather unsatisfying. its a q-w-e order to max and was ok. he did have a lot of little tips to maximize jayces clear and use his ult passives to clear asap, plus some videos on how to do combos. it was a good guide really, but his first clear is still abysmally bad. here is a link to the guide if anyone wants to check it out. http://solomid.net/guides.php?g=29470i tried some different builds top lane also with great success. i cant stop with my gp5 builds. dorans might give me a stronger early game (where with gp5 he is truly weak), but once you get your first damage item the game can quickly swing to your favor. i went philo hog merc tread bt wits hexdrinker triforce maw and was dominating. i just started getting maw on champs like jayce and hecarim and man that is a good item. i also maxed q first in lane instead of e and it was amazing for poke and wave clearing. i havent tried a true ad build (ie pd bt etc) maybe i will give that a shot tonight. I'm 190% certain that WQE is a better opening on Jayce. Hammer-Q's damage is non-existent at rank 1/without bonus AD and has a ridiculously long cooldown. Range-Q's damage is less than that of Hammer-W's. Meanwhile, Range-W is an auto-reset + three quick attacks. There's really no contest between level 1 Q and level 1 W, even if you plan on maxing Q first. Also, CA+5p is always a glaring red flag. Junglers who require that opening to clear safely and effectively are never competitive. "If you're on some site that tells you to start with cloth5, hit X, delete that shit from your bookmarks, and never go back" -Saintvicious Cloth+5 is the default start on Mundo for both Lilballz and WE.YJTM from what I've seen. That said, what Monte said is correct--junglers that are required to start Cloth+5 are generally too gimped, but preferring such a start isn't necessarily wrong.
Didnt know you could jungle mundo without cloth without like a hella massive leash i didnt think.
get so low till after your first clear
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If you take armor quints then you can open boots without much issue. It's what I've ended up defaulting to with Mundo, but I stopped playing Mundo because I suck with him real hard.
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On July 12 2012 01:43 arb wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 01:32 TheYango wrote:On July 12 2012 01:31 Perplex wrote:On July 12 2012 01:17 Seuss wrote:On July 12 2012 00:04 Vaporized wrote:i played several more jayce games yesterday. i saw the approved jungle guide at solomid and i tried his build. it worked better then anything else i have tried in the jungle, but still was rather unsatisfying. its a q-w-e order to max and was ok. he did have a lot of little tips to maximize jayces clear and use his ult passives to clear asap, plus some videos on how to do combos. it was a good guide really, but his first clear is still abysmally bad. here is a link to the guide if anyone wants to check it out. http://solomid.net/guides.php?g=29470i tried some different builds top lane also with great success. i cant stop with my gp5 builds. dorans might give me a stronger early game (where with gp5 he is truly weak), but once you get your first damage item the game can quickly swing to your favor. i went philo hog merc tread bt wits hexdrinker triforce maw and was dominating. i just started getting maw on champs like jayce and hecarim and man that is a good item. i also maxed q first in lane instead of e and it was amazing for poke and wave clearing. i havent tried a true ad build (ie pd bt etc) maybe i will give that a shot tonight. I'm 190% certain that WQE is a better opening on Jayce. Hammer-Q's damage is non-existent at rank 1/without bonus AD and has a ridiculously long cooldown. Range-Q's damage is less than that of Hammer-W's. Meanwhile, Range-W is an auto-reset + three quick attacks. There's really no contest between level 1 Q and level 1 W, even if you plan on maxing Q first. Also, CA+5p is always a glaring red flag. Junglers who require that opening to clear safely and effectively are never competitive. "If you're on some site that tells you to start with cloth5, hit X, delete that shit from your bookmarks, and never go back" -Saintvicious Cloth+5 is the default start on Mundo for both Lilballz and WE.YJTM from what I've seen. That said, what Monte said is correct--junglers that are required to start Cloth+5 are generally too gimped, but preferring such a start isn't necessarily wrong. Didnt know you could jungle mundo without cloth without like a hella massive leash i didnt think. get so low till after your first clear
ya pretty much my feeling too. i always start cloth when i play mundo,
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On July 12 2012 01:45 Vaporized wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 01:43 arb wrote:On July 12 2012 01:32 TheYango wrote:On July 12 2012 01:31 Perplex wrote:On July 12 2012 01:17 Seuss wrote:On July 12 2012 00:04 Vaporized wrote:i played several more jayce games yesterday. i saw the approved jungle guide at solomid and i tried his build. it worked better then anything else i have tried in the jungle, but still was rather unsatisfying. its a q-w-e order to max and was ok. he did have a lot of little tips to maximize jayces clear and use his ult passives to clear asap, plus some videos on how to do combos. it was a good guide really, but his first clear is still abysmally bad. here is a link to the guide if anyone wants to check it out. http://solomid.net/guides.php?g=29470i tried some different builds top lane also with great success. i cant stop with my gp5 builds. dorans might give me a stronger early game (where with gp5 he is truly weak), but once you get your first damage item the game can quickly swing to your favor. i went philo hog merc tread bt wits hexdrinker triforce maw and was dominating. i just started getting maw on champs like jayce and hecarim and man that is a good item. i also maxed q first in lane instead of e and it was amazing for poke and wave clearing. i havent tried a true ad build (ie pd bt etc) maybe i will give that a shot tonight. I'm 190% certain that WQE is a better opening on Jayce. Hammer-Q's damage is non-existent at rank 1/without bonus AD and has a ridiculously long cooldown. Range-Q's damage is less than that of Hammer-W's. Meanwhile, Range-W is an auto-reset + three quick attacks. There's really no contest between level 1 Q and level 1 W, even if you plan on maxing Q first. Also, CA+5p is always a glaring red flag. Junglers who require that opening to clear safely and effectively are never competitive. "If you're on some site that tells you to start with cloth5, hit X, delete that shit from your bookmarks, and never go back" -Saintvicious Cloth+5 is the default start on Mundo for both Lilballz and WE.YJTM from what I've seen. That said, what Monte said is correct--junglers that are required to start Cloth+5 are generally too gimped, but preferring such a start isn't necessarily wrong. Didnt know you could jungle mundo without cloth without like a hella massive leash i didnt think. get so low till after your first clear ya pretty much my feeling too. i always start cloth when i play mundo, and if i have a teammate who doesnt then they inevitably will be too low to gank.
All you have to do is have bot/top and mid there for your leash and you take almost no damage from Blue at all....the problem is convincing people in SoloQ at low levels to help more than casting a spell and running back to lane.
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is awesome32281 Posts
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lmao, I love aphro so much sometimes.
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On July 12 2012 01:36 Vaporized wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 01:17 Seuss wrote:On July 12 2012 00:04 Vaporized wrote:i played several more jayce games yesterday. i saw the approved jungle guide at solomid and i tried his build. it worked better then anything else i have tried in the jungle, but still was rather unsatisfying. its a q-w-e order to max and was ok. he did have a lot of little tips to maximize jayces clear and use his ult passives to clear asap, plus some videos on how to do combos. it was a good guide really, but his first clear is still abysmally bad. here is a link to the guide if anyone wants to check it out. http://solomid.net/guides.php?g=29470i tried some different builds top lane also with great success. i cant stop with my gp5 builds. dorans might give me a stronger early game (where with gp5 he is truly weak), but once you get your first damage item the game can quickly swing to your favor. i went philo hog merc tread bt wits hexdrinker triforce maw and was dominating. i just started getting maw on champs like jayce and hecarim and man that is a good item. i also maxed q first in lane instead of e and it was amazing for poke and wave clearing. i havent tried a true ad build (ie pd bt etc) maybe i will give that a shot tonight. I'm 190% certain that WQE is a better opening on Jayce. Hammer-Q's damage is non-existent at rank 1/without bonus AD and has a ridiculously long cooldown. Range-Q's damage is less than that of Hammer-W's. Meanwhile, Range-W is an auto-reset + three quick attacks. There's really no contest between level 1 Q and level 1 W, even if you plan on maxing Q first. Also, CA+5p is always a glaring red flag. Junglers who require that opening to clear safely and effectively are never competitive. im not sure what your point is. no one said he was a good jungler.
.....im starting to think you're just a huge troll.
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I can do boots but I'll back after my first clear (gotta buy tabi anyway), or generally if I level 2 gank with boots either we get immediate results (kill, or he flees/flashes and I immediatly withdraw) either I get very low clearing blue and have to back some camps after.
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What the... Jayce should be able to do his first clear quite fast, I wonder if people are playing him properly?
I need to try it out after this game.
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On July 12 2012 02:09 Shikyo wrote:
What the... Jayce should be able to do his first clear quite fast, I wonder if people are playing him properly?
I need to try it out after this game.
its so bad, really it is. get to 6 or so and u clear very fast, but until then it is awful.
and to the guy who said im a troll... lol you have 4000 posts and i have never noticed your username or sig. the guy whose post i said was useless pretty much came in and said 'jayce jungle is not viable,' after me and the other guy were saying how bad it was already, like his word was the final say on the subject. jayce jungle may very well not be viable BUT making definitive statements about a champ that has been out a few days is so dumb.
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On July 12 2012 01:36 Vaporized wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 01:17 Seuss wrote:On July 12 2012 00:04 Vaporized wrote:i played several more jayce games yesterday. i saw the approved jungle guide at solomid and i tried his build. it worked better then anything else i have tried in the jungle, but still was rather unsatisfying. its a q-w-e order to max and was ok. he did have a lot of little tips to maximize jayces clear and use his ult passives to clear asap, plus some videos on how to do combos. it was a good guide really, but his first clear is still abysmally bad. here is a link to the guide if anyone wants to check it out. http://solomid.net/guides.php?g=29470i tried some different builds top lane also with great success. i cant stop with my gp5 builds. dorans might give me a stronger early game (where with gp5 he is truly weak), but once you get your first damage item the game can quickly swing to your favor. i went philo hog merc tread bt wits hexdrinker triforce maw and was dominating. i just started getting maw on champs like jayce and hecarim and man that is a good item. i also maxed q first in lane instead of e and it was amazing for poke and wave clearing. i havent tried a true ad build (ie pd bt etc) maybe i will give that a shot tonight. I'm 190% certain that WQE is a better opening on Jayce. Hammer-Q's damage is non-existent at rank 1/without bonus AD and has a ridiculously long cooldown. Range-Q's damage is less than that of Hammer-W's. Meanwhile, Range-W is an auto-reset + three quick attacks. There's really no contest between level 1 Q and level 1 W, even if you plan on maxing Q first. Also, CA+5p is always a glaring red flag. Junglers who require that opening to clear safely and effectively are never competitive. im not sure what your point is. no one said he was a good jungler.
The basic setup is the most important part of a jungle guide, and that setup was not very good. I'm a firm believer in proper optimization, even if you're playing an underpowered champion.
On July 12 2012 01:32 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 01:31 Perplex wrote:On July 12 2012 01:17 Seuss wrote:On July 12 2012 00:04 Vaporized wrote:i played several more jayce games yesterday. i saw the approved jungle guide at solomid and i tried his build. it worked better then anything else i have tried in the jungle, but still was rather unsatisfying. its a q-w-e order to max and was ok. he did have a lot of little tips to maximize jayces clear and use his ult passives to clear asap, plus some videos on how to do combos. it was a good guide really, but his first clear is still abysmally bad. here is a link to the guide if anyone wants to check it out. http://solomid.net/guides.php?g=29470i tried some different builds top lane also with great success. i cant stop with my gp5 builds. dorans might give me a stronger early game (where with gp5 he is truly weak), but once you get your first damage item the game can quickly swing to your favor. i went philo hog merc tread bt wits hexdrinker triforce maw and was dominating. i just started getting maw on champs like jayce and hecarim and man that is a good item. i also maxed q first in lane instead of e and it was amazing for poke and wave clearing. i havent tried a true ad build (ie pd bt etc) maybe i will give that a shot tonight. I'm 190% certain that WQE is a better opening on Jayce. Hammer-Q's damage is non-existent at rank 1/without bonus AD and has a ridiculously long cooldown. Range-Q's damage is less than that of Hammer-W's. Meanwhile, Range-W is an auto-reset + three quick attacks. There's really no contest between level 1 Q and level 1 W, even if you plan on maxing Q first. Also, CA+5p is always a glaring red flag. Junglers who require that opening to clear safely and effectively are never competitive. "If you're on some site that tells you to start with cloth5, hit X, delete that shit from your bookmarks, and never go back" -Saintvicious Cloth+5 is the default start on Mundo for both Lilballz and WE.YJTM from what I've seen. That said, what Monte said is correct--junglers that are required to start Cloth+5 are generally too gimped, but preferring such a start isn't necessarily wrong.
I knew that Mundo would come up before I even posted that.
As you and others noted, the issue isn't the opening itself, but requiring that opening. Mundo can clear and be in a position to gank starting boots + 3p if you use any form of sustain Quints with or without a leash, or he can start CA + 5p and run Movespeed Quints, or he can start Regrowth/Vampiric Scepter. He has options, and what you choose depends on the situation and your needs.
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On July 12 2012 02:16 Vaporized wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 02:09 Shikyo wrote:
What the... Jayce should be able to do his first clear quite fast, I wonder if people are playing him properly?
I need to try it out after this game. its so bad, really it is. get to 6 or so and u clear very fast, but until then it is awful. and to the guy who said im a troll... lol you have 4000 posts and i have never noticed your username or sig. the guy whose post i said was useless pretty much came in and said 'jayce jungle is not viable,' after me and the other guy were saying how bad it was already, like his word was the final say on the subject. jayce jungle may very well not be viable BUT making definitive statements about a champ that has been out a few days is so dumb.
It was an approved guide that you linked saying it was good. Monte pointed out what he felt was an obvious flaw. I have no idea why you'd post saying you don't know who De4ngus or Seuss are. If you have a problem with his point of W before Q you could explain why?
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Mundo and shyv are like exceptions on champs who have an awkward first clear but monster clear later on so it makes up for it.
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On July 12 2012 02:23 Slayer91 wrote:
Mundo and shyv are like exceptions on champs who have an awkward first clear but monster clear later on so it makes up for it.
I get quite low on shyv on first clear without a very good pull when starting boots3, even with defensive masteries.
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you started a discussion on Jayce jungle, then he replied giving what he thinks is a better build, however notes that although he thinks this skill order is better, he still feels jayce jungle isn't very good. And you take it personally for some reason? again troll being misused (but when isn't it) I thought the original reply was reasonable don't know why you took it so badly. If you want to post stuff w/o counter arguments this isn't the place.
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On July 12 2012 02:26 JackDino wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 02:23 Slayer91 wrote:
Mundo and shyv are like exceptions on champs who have an awkward first clear but monster clear later on so it makes up for it. I get quite low on shyv on first clear without a very good pull when starting boots3, even with defensive masteries.
That's what I just said, isn't it? Mundo and shyv sometimes start cloth for early counterjungling/in general because they lose more hp but after that they clear really fast losing not that much hp if you have some regen/potions.
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EPT
