EPTALSO YAY JUNGLE NUNU BUFFS!
[Patch 1.0.0.141: Draven] General Discussion - Page 246
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
ALSO YAY JUNGLE NUNU BUFFS! | ||
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1ntrigue
Australia948 Posts
On July 03 2012 17:12 iCanada wrote: I am pretty pumped about the QoL changes on Orianna. Going from some other mages back to Ori feels aweful because things can be pretty unresponsive. The worst is when you QRW and because you input commands to fast you just end up with QW. Frsutrating. ALSO YAY JUNGLE NUNU BUFFS! So true re Orianna. For me, I never manage to get the shield on me despite spamming the button  Edit: looking at the PBE changes, maybe it's not a buff after all? The decreased base numbers and AP ratio on Q are really devastating unless they decrease the CD significantly. | ||
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
On July 03 2012 16:43 PrinceXizor wrote: i don't even think you read what i wrote. because you are arguing against nothing that i wrote. it's not even that they are difficult to win, they are often impossible to win without a mistake from the other team. you can play perfectly while down xp/gold in team fights and almost every time if the opponent doesn't make mistakes, and like i said before, there are very very few ways of forcing mistakes in lol. it's like you didn't understand/read anything i wrote. Every sentence you're written is pointless or wrong. "it's not even that they are difficult to win, they are often impossible to win without a mistake from the other team." Team fights are impossible to win without a mistake from the other team, So if the other team plays a fight perfectly they will always win, I agree. "you can play perfectly while down xp/gold in team fights and almost every time if the opponent doesn't make mistakes, and like i said before, there are very very few ways of forcing mistakes in lol. " This is a very advanced sentence that I'm sure will go over most people's heads. So what you're essentially saying is you can play a fight perfectly but because you're under leveled and underfarmed, you will lose regardless of how perfectly you played. This argument is both wrong and pointless. Small gold differences can easily be made up by better teamfighting. If the other team is a lot more gold then yes, they win fights unless they fuck up. "and like i said before, there are very very few ways of forcing mistakes in lol. it's like you didn't understand/read anything i wrote." There are so many mistakes every fight in every game of pro level LoL. I understand what you wrote and think it's wrong. | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On July 03 2012 16:45 arb wrote: I dunno what you mean by forcing mistakes? the only things i cans ee like that are getting caught by an ali combo or a dark binding or a fist or something. you shouldnt be able to force the team to make mistakes if they're playing well ? making mistakes should be on the other team id think? Forcing mistakes is a key part of most multiplayer games, whether it's a physical sport, a mental sport, or an esport. You are attempting to put your opponent in a situation where the first thing or most likely thing they will do, is exactly what you want. this is different from baiting, where you try to you encourage an outcome, you force mistakes by eliminating options. consider the following (I believe it was a Dreamhack game someone can correct me if i'm wrong) Purple is taking baron, and Blue is just back from death and on the way there. Blue feints in to force 1 player to leave baron pit to try to hold them off. Purple has three options at this point: 1. Take baron > team fight, this scenario relies on the person guarding the group to be strong and make good decisions and avoid taking damage. 2. Abandon baron > team fight, then scenario is very hard to accomplish successfully, you are already low on life from baron and backed up against a wall. in addition there is the chance of a baron snipe which can remove all hope from the team fight with the new baron buff. 3. Take baron > Retreat, overall the safest and most sensible thing all 5 players had flash up, they can take baron flash out the back and be home free. blue has 10 seconds to figure out how to force a mistake in this situation. The possible mistakes to be made are: If forced into option 1, blue team has a distinct health advantage, which would allow blue team to snipe a carry/support very quickly and turn the battle into their favor immediately. If forced into option 2, blue team can pin them near baron to take advantage of the baron damage, they can also set up for a baron snipe. Option 3 is without mistake, it is unlikely that blue can get a large enough advantage if purple chooses to go down option three. so step 1 blue must eliminate this as an option. Blue walks up and exhuasts the guard as baron gets low. This eliminates option 3 as a choice, because purple will go down 4v5 if they abandon the guard. Blue then moves in on the baron pit but doesn't throw out any spells. This eliminates the abandonment option as they will be fighting with baron attacking as well, so purple is forced to blow spells to try to keep baron theirs, as well as quickly end baron in order be at the highest possible health when baron dies. Then just as baron dies, blue has multiple players flash /jump in in some way and immediately begin taking out the carry. Blue just forced purple to make a mistake, they forced purple into using spells (and thus having them on cooldown for the start of a fight) and they forced purple into fighting an engagement they could not win. Blue kill the carry the support the jungler and mid lane, and the top lane gets away for purple with baron buff, but blue pushes 2 base towers and inhibs, and purple GGs. that scenario is a forced mistake. blue systematically eliminated the options in order to force the outcome they planned for. Blue still could have abandoned the guard and flashed out and held off a 5v4 under a turret. but the option seemed less attractive than the other two immediately because they would be accepting an unfavorable outcome (which was actually the best possible outcome because of the situation and blue's actions). | ||
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CaffeineFree-_-
United States712 Posts
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spinesheath
Germany8679 Posts
Blue doesn't force anything, they just abuse the mistimed baron attempt. "Forcing a mistake" is nonsense anyways. Either an action is the optimal play, then it's not a mistake, or it isn't, but then it isn't forced because there exists another option. | ||
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Ferrose
United States11378 Posts
Jayce's numbers look ridiculous... | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
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Ferrose
United States11378 Posts
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De4ngus
United States6533 Posts
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r.Evo
Germany14080 Posts
On July 03 2012 17:45 spinesheath wrote: The only mistake there would be purple doing baron without enough time to do it and too weak to just turn on blue. Blue doesn't force anything, they just abuse the mistimed baron attempt. "Forcing a mistake" is nonsense anyways. Either an action is the optimal play, then it's not a mistake, or it isn't, but then it isn't forced because there exists another option. It depends. The goal should be "if you put enough pressure on someone the likelyhood of him making a mistake increases" - That's usually what people mean by saying "You should try to force mistakes". However, the basic problem in the wall of text above is: "lol game won by baron fight not by fight for inhibs lol". Nerf baron plz. | ||
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Zhiroo
Kosovo2724 Posts
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On July 03 2012 18:31 r.Evo wrote: It depends. The goal should be "if you put enough pressure on someone the likelyhood of him making a mistake increases" - That's usually what people mean by saying "You should try to force mistakes". However, the basic problem in the wall of text above is: "lol game won by baron fight not by fight for inhibs lol". Nerf baron plz. well the only things that teams try to stand their ground for are dragon and baron. teams will even cede inhibs. | ||
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Parnage
United States7414 Posts
Primary thoughts, his Hammer mode E(Thundering Blow) is a tad too strong. I could see him acting like a volibear in this respect so I am expecting those numbers to be lower or lowered soon after release. His ability to switch from ranged to melee allows for quick players to chain damaging spells together and allow for disturbing amounts of damage with little items. Give him a Trinity Force and the guy's pretty much set. Jayce is mobile as hell. Good luck catching him. Between his passive's speed boost and acceleration boost the guy's like trying to catch a Nidalee. Build armour seems to shut him down fairly hard. Curious to see what he could do with an early brutalizer. I like him, if I played top lane I'd probly say day 1 buy if his Thundering Blow stays how it is on PBE. | ||
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Deleted User 101379
4849 Posts
On July 03 2012 18:27 De4ngus wrote: looks like 600 hp at lvl 1 to me o.o From what i understand, "per level" usually means "after the first level", so his health is still quite high but not that high. He still looks very strong, similar to darius though with slightly lower base armor. The skill they will nerf first after release will be his E. On level 5 20% of the targets maximum life as magic damage... uhm... yeah... Vayne is getting jealous about that... | ||
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Lmui
Canada6223 Posts
Alistar: Was a long time coming. Previously, he could spam heal all day without ever running out of mana, it was only headbutt+pulv combos that really cost mana. Caitlyn: Nice buff but doesn't address some of the other issues with her, she'll be even better at picking off people from a mile away but like before, unless you hit a squishy, it does pretty mediocre damage. Janna: Might be a bit overkill. Her W passive nerf isn't too unexpected, it made her uncatchable late game. The massive cooldown nerf gimps AP janna a lot though, it was her best harass tool. Orianna: Overall, a nerf to her. She does a little bit more damage until level 8 when she has to put more than one point into Q. The expected Q cd reduction didn't happen which is disappointing. Hopefully the QoL changes made it through. Soraka: Heal's armour buff was ridiculous on some characters like urgot/graves in lane. Now you have 17 seconds to kill any soraka lane, up from 15. Good change, Sona: She might see some more play now that her early laning is alright. I feel that a mana reduction on her W would've been better to address the problems that I see but charging up a power chord is going to be much cheaper overall in terms of mana. Item changes: athenes: Good buffs, it was a good item to try but it was a niche item relegated to swain/galio. Now it might be something we see on more characters. QSS: Still an amazing item. I don't like losing the bit of MR, the recipe cost increase should've been all but it's still going to be built pretty regularly. TL;DR, Globals were too strong and cd nerfs were pretty much expected across the board. Supports have their power levelled via nerfing the stronger ones over buffing weaker ones in most cases. We will probably still see a lot of janna but less soraka. Sona will probably see a lot more play. Her damage didn't increase but her ability to poke got improved. | ||
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spinesheath
Germany8679 Posts
On July 03 2012 18:31 r.Evo wrote: It depends. The goal should be "if you put enough pressure on someone the likelyhood of him making a mistake increases" - That's usually what people mean by saying "You should try to force mistakes". However, the basic problem in the wall of text above is: "lol game won by baron fight not by fight for inhibs lol". Nerf baron plz. According to that wall of text he actually meant "making it inevitable for the enemy team to not make a mistake". However, such a "mistake" actually isn't a mistake. The mistake lies further ahead, where the enemy team allowed themselves to get into a position where even the optimal play was not favorable for them. Games are always won by those who make less mistakes. If a team doesn't make any mistakes, they win. A team that doesn't make mistakes can't be "forced to make mistakes" because that would require an earlier mistake. Not abusing a mistake the enemy made also is a mistake. This post is full of mistakes. | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On July 03 2012 18:49 Morfildur wrote: From what i understand, "per level" usually means "after the first level", so his health is still quite high but not that high. He still looks very strong, similar to darius though with slightly lower base armor. The skill they will nerf first after release will be his E. On level 5 20% of the targets maximum life as magic damage... uhm... yeah... Vayne is getting jealous about that... http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Ashe_the_Frost_Archer for example It makes no sense to me that they'd use a different system than LoL wiki, but then again 510 makes more sense (Still crazyhigh) | ||
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