EPTOn June 30 2012 02:59 Zhiroo wrote:
Yay login queue in EUW
Yay login queue in EUW
Of course, they just released the patch which implemented upgrades like the Maokai / Lee Sin bug and the login queue. I'm very happy for this very useful patch.
[Patch 1.0.0.141: Draven] General Discussion - Page 210
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
Of course, they just released the patch which implemented upgrades like the Maokai / Lee Sin bug and the login queue. I'm very happy for this very useful patch. | ||
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TheSamuraj
Netherlands27 Posts
Its true that supports are starving for gold and I would love to go roaming more to get assists but solo bot just doens't work out in this meta. But a 40% (or less) "assist" rate for minions I would love but it has to be deep down the utility tree because if everybody can get it (replacement for ward masterie) they would because more gold! Since we are talking about masteries did u ever thought about the Mercenary and Sage mastery? Sage gives bonus EXP on assists and kills while Mercenary gives extra gold on assists and kills. Why not switch those two around in the mastery trees? Support get more gold and the tanks usually dont pick it up ( junglers might). | ||
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Vlanitak
Norway3045 Posts
succsess its back! | ||
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barbsq
United States5348 Posts
On June 30 2012 02:36 Morfildur wrote: It is possible if you get assists or tower kills and skip all warding except for the common starting wards of supports, otherwise the math doesn't allow for it: + Show Spoiler + For those calculations i will ignore the no-income period at the start of the game: Starting gold: 515 Gold from base income: 13/10 Gold from Gp10 runes: 5.25/10 Gold from Masteries: 2/10 Earliest time you can get Philosophers without any last hits or assists and starting with common Faerie Charm, 2 wars, 1 pink ward, 1 potion: Income 20.25/10 = ~5:06 Earliest time you can get HoG after that Income 25.25/10 = 5:26 later, i.e. ~10:30 Shurelyas cost after having Philosophers: 1400 Time to get Shurelyas: Income of 30.25/10: ~7:42, i.e. ~18:15-18:30 At 18:30 minutes you can reliably get shurelyas if you don't buy boots or any wards and potions past the initial. Dragon kill, assists and towerkills take around 60s away from that time. (150g/30.25*10 = 49.5s if it's after PS&HoG) You really have to win your lane and have a jungler that kills the dragon constantly to manage 15 minute Shurelyas. Personally i prefer to focus on wards and get Aegis before Shurelyas since with good ward coverage i find Shurelyas to be less useful while Aegis can change a fight... but then again, i'm a noob :p EDIT: Forgot mastery gold. Fixed. Reverie is so fking good tho, if I had to pick between a reverie or an aegis, then i'd choose reverie every time. Regardless, how does ward coverage change how good it is? Good use of reverie seems kinda unrelated to good ward coverage o.O | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
On June 30 2012 03:03 Shikyo wrote: If shurelyas regen isn't enough and you need a chalice instead you are doing something very very wrong depends on the support IMHO. I think chalice has it's place on Janna and Sona, but not really anyone else. | ||
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Node
United States2159 Posts
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
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barbsq
United States5348 Posts
On June 30 2012 03:02 TheSamuraj wrote: What i've been doing the past time is getting philo+hog+boots+chalice because the support is chosen because of her abilities. ability spamming > item actives for me. I do get shurelya's, aegis and locket but later. Its true that supports are starving for gold and I would love to go roaming more to get assists but solo bot just doens't work out in this meta. But a 40% (or less) "assist" rate for minions I would love but it has to be deep down the utility tree because if everybody can get it (replacement for ward masterie) they would because more gold! Since we are talking about masteries did u ever thought about the Mercenary and Sage mastery? Sage gives bonus EXP on assists and kills while Mercenary gives extra gold on assists and kills. Why not switch those two around in the mastery trees? Support get more gold and the tanks usually dont pick it up ( junglers might). afaik, both masteries are actually really terrible, just from a purely from a stuff-gained/mastery-points-spent perspective. | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
On June 30 2012 03:09 barbsq wrote: afaik, both masteries are actually really terrible, just from a purely from a stuff-gained/mastery-points-spent perspective. Sage is actually pretty decent for 1 point on supports IMO. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On June 30 2012 03:03 barbsq wrote: Reverie is so fking good tho, if I had to pick between a reverie or an aegis, then i'd choose reverie every time. Regardless, how does ward coverage change how good it is? Good use of reverie seems kinda unrelated to good ward coverage o.O Not really a good comparison. Reverie is useful for chasing, engaging, escaping, ganking, general mobility, etc. But for a straight-up teamfight, Aegis is king. On June 30 2012 03:07 Node wrote: I like the idea of encouraging the support to actually get CS, as it would have the effect of delaying the AD carry's items a bit, possibly encouraging them to mix up their itemization some. Go for some more mid-tier items instead of the basic expensive ones. Gawd, I am sick of getting the same five items every game I play AD. It could also maybe mix up the lanes a bit, get the support to take CS from places other than bot lane. I'd imagine that it should be a split from across everyone. 10 CS off everyone is ~300 gold per person, which probably won't mean the difference between finishing an item or not. But +1500 gold on your support could be a huge deal. | ||
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Xevious
United States2086 Posts
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On June 30 2012 03:10 Mogwai wrote: maybe I'm the only one who runs out of gas on Janna, but in prolonged fights I find myself oom on Janna without Chalice. You're just used to playing OP bruisers with no mana costs  | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On June 30 2012 03:10 Mogwai wrote: maybe I'm the only one who runs out of gas on Janna, but in prolonged fights I find myself oom on Janna without Chalice. Sage is actually pretty decent for 1 point on supports IMO. ~1050 mana at around lvl 10(Just an example), assuming full mana at the start of the fight if you spam everything on cd and assuming R > E > W > Q the fight would need to last for around 33 seconds without counting in mana regen. That's not too relevant though. However assuming you don't need to use everything on cd and assuming you have some normal regen (Maybe 20 mp5) you should last around 45 seconds. However the question we need to ask is: Would that fight have lasted 45 seconds in the first place if we had our Shurelyas done rather than getting a Chalice instead? | ||
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barbsq
United States5348 Posts
On June 30 2012 03:10 Mogwai wrote: maybe I'm the only one who runs out of gas on Janna, but in prolonged fights I find myself oom on Janna without Chalice. don't use tornado so much. Overuse of tornado is the most mana-draining thing you can do with janna. Liberal use of shield and zephyr barely uses any mana at all. | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
On June 30 2012 03:18 Shikyo wrote: ~1050 mana at around lvl 10(Just an example), assuming full mana at the start of the fight if you spam everything on cd and assuming R > E > W > Q the fight would need to last for around 33 seconds without counting in mana regen. full mana at the start of the fight is an unfair assumption cause I'm constantly throwing out Es and Qs in poke phase. Also factor in that I'm @ 40% CDR by the time I buy chalice (10 from masteries, 15 from CDR boots, 15 from reverie). I dunno, I just keep finding myslef oom after a long ass teamfight with 1200 gold on Janna, so I back, buy 5 wards and a chalice and feel better about the rest of the game. On June 30 2012 03:19 barbsq wrote: don't use tornado so much. Overuse of tornado is the most mana-draining thing you can do with janna. Liberal use of shield and zephyr barely uses any mana at all. but... but... it's so fucking good. I want to use it all the time and if Chalice lets me take the gloves off for tornado usage... that seems worth it to me. | ||
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barbsq
United States5348 Posts
On June 30 2012 03:10 TheYango wrote: Not really a good comparison. Reverie is useful for chasing, engaging, escaping, ganking, general mobility, etc. But for a straight-up teamfight, Aegis is king. the guy I was responding to specifically said he would rather have aegis over reverie, and I was stating my opinion (which, I am quite aware, is very biased in reverie's favor) that i would much rather have a reverie on my team than an aegis, assuming that I could only have 1 (which is a faulty assumption, but nevertheless gets the point across). | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On June 30 2012 03:20 Mogwai wrote: full mana at the start of the fight is an unfair assumption cause I'm constantly throwing out Es and Qs in poke phase. Also factor in that I'm @ 40% CDR by the time I buy chalice (10 from masteries, 15 from CDR boots, 15 from reverie). I dunno, I just keep finding myslef oom after a long ass teamfight with 1200 gold on Janna, so I back, buy 5 wards and a chalice and feel better about the rest of the game. but... but... it's so fucking good. I want to use it all the time and if Chalice lets me take the gloves off for tornado usage... that seems worth it to me. Chalice after Shurelyas should be fine, I was thinking about prioritizing it over Shurelyas, though yeah CDR >_> | ||
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