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On June 30 2012 03:20 Mogwai wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 03:18 Shikyo wrote:On June 30 2012 03:10 Mogwai wrote:maybe I'm the only one who runs out of gas on Janna, but in prolonged fights I find myself oom on Janna without Chalice. On June 30 2012 03:09 barbsq wrote:On June 30 2012 03:02 TheSamuraj wrote:
What i've been doing the past time is getting philo+hog+boots+chalice because the support is chosen because of her abilities. ability spamming > item actives for me. I do get shurelya's, aegis and locket but later.
Its true that supports are starving for gold and I would love to go roaming more to get assists but solo bot just doens't work out in this meta. But a 40% (or less) "assist" rate for minions I would love but it has to be deep down the utility tree because if everybody can get it (replacement for ward masterie) they would because more gold!
Since we are talking about masteries did u ever thought about the Mercenary and Sage mastery? Sage gives bonus EXP on assists and kills while Mercenary gives extra gold on assists and kills. Why not switch those two around in the mastery trees? Support get more gold and the tanks usually dont pick it up ( junglers might). afaik, both masteries are actually really terrible, just from a purely from a stuff-gained/mastery-points-spent perspective. Sage is actually pretty decent for 1 point on supports IMO. ~1050 mana at around lvl 10(Just an example), assuming full mana at the start of the fight if you spam everything on cd and assuming R > E > W > Q the fight would need to last for around 33 seconds without counting in mana regen. full mana at the start of the fight is an unfair assumption cause I'm constantly throwing out Es and Qs in poke phase. Also factor in that I'm @ 40% CDR by the time I buy chalice (10 from masteries, 15 from CDR boots, 15 from reverie). I dunno, I just keep finding myslef oom after a long ass teamfight with 1200 gold on Janna, so I back, buy 5 wards and a chalice and feel better about the rest of the game. Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 03:19 barbsq wrote:On June 30 2012 03:10 Mogwai wrote:
maybe I'm the only one who runs out of gas on Janna, but in prolonged fights I find myself oom on Janna without Chalice.
don't use tornado so much. Overuse of tornado is the most mana-draining thing you can do with janna. Liberal use of shield and zephyr barely uses any mana at all. but... but... it's so fucking good. I want to use it all the time and if Chalice lets me take the gloves off for tornado usage... that seems worth it to me.
Why would u use tornado in the poke phase? It does no dmg, and doesn't knock up long enough to to really capitalize it if you're hitting them @ 1300 range. Tornado is for committing and disengaging (imo), and I would never throw it out like I would an ezreal Q or kogmaw R.
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On June 30 2012 03:25 barbsq wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 03:20 Mogwai wrote:On June 30 2012 03:18 Shikyo wrote:On June 30 2012 03:10 Mogwai wrote:maybe I'm the only one who runs out of gas on Janna, but in prolonged fights I find myself oom on Janna without Chalice. On June 30 2012 03:09 barbsq wrote:On June 30 2012 03:02 TheSamuraj wrote:
What i've been doing the past time is getting philo+hog+boots+chalice because the support is chosen because of her abilities. ability spamming > item actives for me. I do get shurelya's, aegis and locket but later.
Its true that supports are starving for gold and I would love to go roaming more to get assists but solo bot just doens't work out in this meta. But a 40% (or less) "assist" rate for minions I would love but it has to be deep down the utility tree because if everybody can get it (replacement for ward masterie) they would because more gold!
Since we are talking about masteries did u ever thought about the Mercenary and Sage mastery? Sage gives bonus EXP on assists and kills while Mercenary gives extra gold on assists and kills. Why not switch those two around in the mastery trees? Support get more gold and the tanks usually dont pick it up ( junglers might). afaik, both masteries are actually really terrible, just from a purely from a stuff-gained/mastery-points-spent perspective. Sage is actually pretty decent for 1 point on supports IMO. ~1050 mana at around lvl 10(Just an example), assuming full mana at the start of the fight if you spam everything on cd and assuming R > E > W > Q the fight would need to last for around 33 seconds without counting in mana regen. full mana at the start of the fight is an unfair assumption cause I'm constantly throwing out Es and Qs in poke phase. Also factor in that I'm @ 40% CDR by the time I buy chalice (10 from masteries, 15 from CDR boots, 15 from reverie). I dunno, I just keep finding myslef oom after a long ass teamfight with 1200 gold on Janna, so I back, buy 5 wards and a chalice and feel better about the rest of the game. On June 30 2012 03:19 barbsq wrote:On June 30 2012 03:10 Mogwai wrote:
maybe I'm the only one who runs out of gas on Janna, but in prolonged fights I find myself oom on Janna without Chalice.
don't use tornado so much. Overuse of tornado is the most mana-draining thing you can do with janna. Liberal use of shield and zephyr barely uses any mana at all. but... but... it's so fucking good. I want to use it all the time and if Chalice lets me take the gloves off for tornado usage... that seems worth it to me. Why would u use tornado in the poke phase? It does no dmg, and doesn't knock up long enough to to really capitalize it if you're hitting them @ 1300 range. Tornado is for committing and disengaging (imo), and I would never throw it out like I would an ezreal Q or kogmaw R.
Absolutely agree, I think that harrassing with Tornado is a huge mistake most Jannas make. The tornado is an extremely important defensive tool, one of the best in the entire game. If you just use it to harrass (Like 99% of the jannas do), then the opposing aggressive lane(Say Taric Trist) have a free ticket to killing your AD carry. It's very important to save the tornado during laning.
(Same holds true for fights as well, I'd only use it as anti-engage and to follow up on your teammate initiation, it being down gives opposing team a huge window of opportunity)
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it totally does knock up for long enough to let your team capitalize in my experience. it has a bullshit hitbox that can nick someone and combo into like, a free binding or just guarantee mystic shot/living artillery/etc. also, just charging it up can buy your ranged AD time to poke at the tower with a free counter initiation vs. anything other than Malphite.
EDIT: I agree during laning, but in teamfights, meh, I think you're wasting tornado's potential if you're not using it to poke and zone on towers because of its absurdly low CD. it's not like you don't still have R and W to peel if they try to hard commit after you shoot a tornado, and after you use those two, Qs off CD again because Janna's utterly bullshit OP.
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United States47024 Posts
On June 30 2012 03:23 Mogwai wrote:
yea, I'd say reverie is king of support items. control of initiation/disengage is a lot more powerful on average than aegis aura.
I mean, the other iffy thing about that comparison is that the relative value of the Aegis stats is high early and poorer late, while Reverie is pretty useful the entire game.
Personally I hate support Aegis because at 30+ mins the value of the stats is pretty meh. But on a jungle who can get it at ~15 mins, thats a totally different story.
On Janna: both sides need to specify whether they're maxing Q or W second. They're both situationally valid but they play very differently (particularly in regards to Q usage). Absolutely pointless to discuss this without specifying because one person could be talking about rank 1 Q and the other side rank 5.
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I can't think of a single situation where I'd want to max q over w. Q, in my mind, is a complete 1 point wonder. Getting up to 16% ms and 48% slow is 100x more valuable than some cdr on tornado. Not only that, but it also lets you invest in boots 2 later (quite often I hit above boots 2 movespeed with other characters on janna with boots 1).
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On June 30 2012 03:57 barbsq wrote:
I can't think of a single situation where I'd want to max q over w. Q, in my mind, is a complete 1 point wonder. Getting up to 16% ms and 48% slow is 100x more valuable than some cdr on tornado. Not only that, but it also lets you invest in boots 2 later (quite often I hit above boots 2 movespeed with other characters on janna with boots 1).
Personally I've always gone R>E>W>Q
Never really took the time to think about it, generally just going through the motions, but I've always had good success with it.
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agreed, W > Q on support janna. Can't see a reason to max Q over W when you're support. Still shoot off a bunch of level 1 tornadoes pre-initiation, get on my level.
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On June 30 2012 04:13 Mogwai wrote:
agreed, W > Q on support janna. Can't see a reason to max Q over W when you're support. Still shoot off a bunch of level 1 tornadoes pre-initiation, get on my level.
Isn't soniv now at your lvl? 
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I don't even know what that's supposed to mean...
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i dunno what that's supposed to mean either, but still, DAMN, SICK BURN ON SONIV.
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We're all apprentices to Mogwai
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On June 30 2012 04:24 MooMooMugi wrote:
We're all apprentices to Mogwai
Agreed.
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On June 30 2012 04:24 MooMooMugi wrote:
We're all apprentices to Mogwai
Pretty sure it wasn't Gizbro who carried at the Friendly Fire tourney. That was ALL bly
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i carried through flaccid
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On June 29 2012 21:27 Blyf wrote:
I have been having great fun playing Twitch solo top for a few months now, and have risen from around 1450 to 1600 Elo doing it. I'd love to share the ins and outs, but I'll probably not be able to maintain a champion guide thread, so how do You think I should go about it?
Share the sekrits with me, I think we're now officially two people on TL who play him. I think that's still a smaller fanbase than Karma has. =P
When do you pick him? He just has some god aweful matchups (WK/Irelia come to mind) that I tend to just switch to jungle if I see those coming up.
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On June 30 2012 04:35 r.Evo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 21:27 Blyf wrote:
I have been having great fun playing Twitch solo top for a few months now, and have risen from around 1450 to 1600 Elo doing it. I'd love to share the ins and outs, but I'll probably not be able to maintain a champion guide thread, so how do You think I should go about it? Share the sekrits with me, I think we're now officially two people on TL who play him. I think that's still a smaller fanbase than Karma has. =P When do you pick him? He just has some god aweful matchups (WK/Irelia come to mind) that I tend to just switch to jungle if I see those coming up.
Well, Karma's fanbase is at least me and Mogwai, so at best you're equal.
I think Twitch is an extremely underrated champion. I've personally never played him, but I think he's good.
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Twitch has insane early game ganks and snowballs your lanes so hard, forcing the enemy team to dump their money into pink wards, I like him as well
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On June 30 2012 04:43 MooMooMugi wrote:
Twitch has insane early game ganks and snowballs your lanes so hard, forcing the enemy team to dump their money into pink wards, I like him as well
Pink wards, which are useless unless you buy like 4 of them. Been saying this since forever, jungle twitch is retarded. Oh you warded the middle of the lane? Nps I'll come from behind. Oh you warded river? nps I'll walk down the lane. Oh you warded river and the middle of the lane? nps I'll come from behind(only if mid).
Oh you warded middle of the lane and river? lol 250g gone that's about 1 wave of cs spend on wards, while I'll just go trough the lane brush which isn't covered by pink ward.
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been thinking about it, but why not just get a mana manip instead of chalice on janna if you have mana problems. It's slightly less mana regen for about half the cost, and you only lose 30 mres, but instead get mana-regen for teammates around you. And in any case, if it's after reverie, then the game is probably at a point where 30 mres isn't going to make a difference. It also has the potential to be built into soul-shroud, although I'm not sure that's necessarily the best purchase decision, but at the very least, mana manip isn't any more of a dead-end item than chalice would be.
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United States37500 Posts
I still remember supports that opened Mana Manip back during beta. Not always support champions that we have now but some sort of caster champ, Soraka included.
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EPT
