I just started my project "Forever strong!" - an account with ONLY Noxus-affiliated champions. If I find it fun enough, I might even do it for the other factions. However, here is the list of champions:
Cassiopeia Darius (Draven) Katarina LeBlanc Sion Swain Talon Urgot Vladimir
Willing Champions
Annie Dr. Mundo Riven Shaco Singed Warwick
I only took those who are either part of the Noxian military, closely affiliated with the Noxian political landscape or where I can reasonably assume they would fight for Noxus. I didn't include Annie at first, but upon reading her lore I found out that Noxus uses her, lorewise. Riven is obvious, while not part of the Noxian society/hierarchy anymore she loves her country. Shaco is a crazy mass murderer, no reason for him not to fight. I excluded most other Zaunite champions since they have no part in in the Zaun-Noxus alliance/politics. I also excluded Mordekaiser and Gragas, while both are strongly connected to Noxus I doubt they care about the politics.
There is only one problem: Noxus has apparently not a single support in it's roster. I guess I would have to play Talon support, the closest thing available. The only AD carry is Urgot, who isn't even a real AD carry (fucking Sivir, she just HAD TO defect...).
The cool thing is, that Noxus has a VERY firm grip on the top lane and a decently strong jungle line-up. Mid lane is a bit tricky though, really a mixed bag.
Luckily, Noxus being one of the primary factions they can field enough champions to enable draft mode and ranked games. I doubt Bilgewater or Freljord can do that :D Demacia has probably even more champions...
However, I just started the account (bought Darius with leftover money from a Paysafe Card), the rest will be bought with only IP. This is gonna be fun :D
Kat is a fantastic support. I main her as my support champion of choice.
On May 31 2012 02:17 little fancy wrote: Short question purely out of personal interest:
How often do you see Darius in your draft games (both normal and ranked)?
I have seen more Shens than Darii (wtf plural?!) and this should mean something since I almost never see a Shen. I didn't play too much the past days, but even the days after his release I never saw him except in coop games.
Out of maybe 25-30 games since his release I didn't see him once. Neither in my team nor in the enemy team.
Only times I've seen him were in blind picks. He's literally been banned every draft game I've played since this patch came out.
Pretty much this. He dunked everything first three days or so, now he perma banned. People dont even try to not ban him if they first pick because they dont even like having him on their own team.
On May 31 2012 01:03 Alaric wrote: Uh, you've got LB, Swain, Annie, Cass, Talon, Vlad, Katarina, Sion as mid champs, and even possibly WW, how do you manage to find this "tricky"? x)
Its not about having champs that can do it, its about champs that can do it well. And if you discount gimmicky champs like Sion/Katarina/Talon for mid, you are left with subpar choices (Annie, Swain etc) or highly sought after picks/bans (LB, Vlad, Cass). Sure, Noxus has quite a few mid-capable champions, but are they good AND always available? Not so much. Depends on when you can pick and stuff. Once I'm 30, that is. Until then I can play all the champs I want, of course :D
Why would you actually need any other champion than Cassiopiea mid?
I doubt you will get into a lot of games where you have to play mid and both Cassiopiea and Vladimir are banned. The support part is trickier, maybe you should try leblanc support or just a straight up kill lane.
I played shaco support once. You would be amazed at how many supports just refuse to give up brush control, even if you have 4 boxes in there waiting. Many a kill.
On May 31 2012 02:55 TheLink wrote: I played shaco support once. You would be amazed at how many supports just refuse to give up brush control, even if you have 4 boxes in there waiting. Many a kill.
Shaco support only good for brush control. Funny thing is Shaco can't even do anything with brush control, not like you know... almost every other aggressive support.
Ooooooh! Watch out, I'ma two-Shiv you from the brush!
On May 30 2012 22:35 Numy wrote: Well isn't Leona's stuff harder to land then all of Nautilus's? His anchor seems quite easy to land and has to have some sick play by the enemy to dodge it.
yeah, also his numbers are stronger and he has a slow and, in case of cooldowns, just jumps around in a teamfight stunning everything that's near him. What's your point?
On May 30 2012 22:22 Shiv. wrote: I still think that a Nautilus-esque kit ... is just inherently too good to really balance without making them useless. I don't see a soft spot for Nautilus, just because the sheer amount of CC he offers [...] I'm not sure how Riot would balance these numbers without rendering him utterly ineffective.
Not sure if I'm just really dumb and don't get your point at all or if it just doesn't make any sense. Leona works on much higher cooldowns, typically has less resources to itemize for CDR, while FH and Shurelya's, both core on Naut, cap him for CDR. That's not exactly a problem of the champion, but that's what we're working with a realistic game scenario. Also, he has stun that he can apply pretty much unconditionally on everything in sight in a teamfight, a plain point and click AoE slow that scales with levels, and an point and click stun ultimate that has the potential to fuck up their whole team. While doing that, he deals a metric fuckton of damage for the amount of utility he offers. Leona has an ultimate that's avoidable (ever tried flashing Nautilus ult?), that rarely stuns more than one target in a teamfight, is reliant on a low range skillshot in order to get her stun off. Nautilus' Q is a LOT better than Leona's E at everything her E is supposed to do, PLUS it lets him get out of tricky situations. And yeah, as said, his passive is pretty much her Q for a single target fight, with the funny little twist he can apply it to multiple people. I'm really not trying to be a dick, I made a genuine effort to understand your post, but whats the point of comparing Nautilus' numbers to Leona's numbers when their kit has the same feel to it (HEY WHAT'S UP I DISABLE PEOPLE), but works completely different?
His point is probably that every kit is made of numbers, and theoretically all numbers can be balanced. For instance, to make it easier to land Leona's CC, increase skillshot hitboxes and stun radius. To keep them at the same difficulty but increase the reward for landing them, increase CC duration/amount/damage et cetera.
@Haasts Yes, they could be put at the same power level, however that puts the burden on Riot to find the perfect balance between two champions, and then both would have to be kept within the entire roster's power level. Unfortunately they can only deal with changes that affect the entire roster (such as changing/adding an item or minion/monster/mastery mechanics) on a champ-by-champ basis, so there will be periods of imbalance.
@ Shiv. - Apologies for being a bit unclear/curt; typed those out earlier while taking a break from reading through my partner's essay on legal issues wrt/Traditional Cultural Expressions and my mind was a bit zonked. Alaric kind've said what I wanted - there's all sorts of things Riot could do to change things without gutting the kit that would still have a shift on the impact each champion has on the game ... like, if Leona was tweaked to be able to jungle (IDK, Eclipse does double damage to non-champions or she can proc her own Sunlight on creeps or w/e), she'd find it much easier to CDR cap herself via FH/Reverie like Nautilus can (like any support, it's fun to give her a spin on Dominion). Naut's kit is strong (although yeah, took me a few deaths to Galio/Kat to drum into my head that his passive is a snare, not a stun), but there are perks to Leona's kit - her E and R don't require vision of a champion and can be used through walls, and while it's easier to dodge her R, it's also easier for the target of Naut's R to kite it away from his team, putting the onus for good play on one enemy teammember rather than however many Leona can catch in her ult. I'm a big fan of both of them (the majority of my play is as tanky/support junglers or, er, supports in the Ali/Maokai vein as well as Leona/Naut), each of their skill sets have a very natural "flow" to them, they're great for both initiation and peels - it's just that Naut outputs a lot more damage. If they butcher Naut's numbers so he can't jungle as effectively (whether at Sejuani's level or below), it's possible he could work as a Blitzcrank-alternative bot-lane (Nunu migrated there after his nerfs and the jungle changes); elsewhere, they could reduce the range of Dredge Line, or ... well, I don't know. It's true he's in a place similar to pre-nerf Skarner where you can build whatever you want on him in the jungle and do well (boots/5=>RoA=>Haunting Guise go!), so he could come in for some changes ... but I don't think Riot has their hands tied simply because of the amount of tools his kit provides.
On May 31 2012 02:17 little fancy wrote: Short question purely out of personal interest:
How often do you see Darius in your draft games (both normal and ranked)?
I have seen more Shens than Darii (wtf plural?!) and this should mean something since I almost never see a Shen. I didn't play too much the past days, but even the days after his release I never saw him except in coop games.
Out of maybe 25-30 games since his release I didn't see him once. Neither in my team nor in the enemy team.
Perma banned in ranked, seen him a lot in normals always getting 1000 kills and raping his lane.
On May 30 2012 22:09 Abenson wrote: Died to Darius: Open death recap... Ult: 1000 true dmg Passive: 600 dmg Spin thing: 500 dmg
I think i hate his passive more than his ult, cause eveni f you survive his ult with like 250 health remaining that passive ticking for 100 damage a second is still gonna kill you -_-, and yes ive actually had that happen.
why don't people use kayle for jungleing? she seems to be a really strong one without a need to buy boots for a while to gank/clear a jungle. I can see how crazy dependent she is on blue buff to be a jungler but a q nuke before a few swipes from her e and then the massively insane r she should be the best at jungle.
Assuming 45 MR and no penetration it takes 200 bonus AD for a 5 stack of Darius' passive to tick for 100 damage. That might sound outlandish, but you're most of the way there with just runes/masteries, a BT and a couple Doran's Blades.
On May 31 2012 03:48 Sermokala wrote: why don't people use kayle for jungleing? she seems to be a really strong one without a need to buy boots for a while to gank/clear a jungle. I can see how crazy dependent she is on blue buff to be a jungler but a q nuke before a few swipes from her e and then the massively insane r she should be the best at jungle.
Jungle Kayle has problems in solo queue because she's utterly reliant on some random stranger making good use of her ultimate. Sometimes she'll get fed and be able to act like a second AD carry or a bruiser, but otherwise she's a support-type jungler who doesn't have initiation.
But one thing she isn't is dependent on blue buff. E is stupidly cheap and without any outside mana regen you can use it almost indefinitely. She's only blue dependent if mindlessly spam her other abilities (which are completely unnecessary past her first clear).
On May 30 2012 22:09 Abenson wrote: Died to Darius: Open death recap... Ult: 1000 true dmg Passive: 600 dmg Spin thing: 500 dmg
I think i hate his passive more than his ult, cause eveni f you survive his ult with like 250 health remaining that passive ticking for 100 damage a second is still gonna kill you -_-, and yes ive actually had that happen.
I've really become disenchanted with Darius as of late. He has no gap closers or sprints unless he can hit you, so putting anyone who can do anything resembling kiting against him really just makes him look dumb. Sure, if you let him sit on your head and combo you, you die, but there are plenty of other champs that do that as well.
On May 31 2012 03:48 Sermokala wrote: why don't people use kayle for jungleing? she seems to be a really strong one without a need to buy boots for a while to gank/clear a jungle. I can see how crazy dependent she is on blue buff to be a jungler but a q nuke before a few swipes from her e and then the massively insane r she should be the best at jungle.
She's pretty good, but has a few drawbacks. No hard CC means her ganks will never be as good as someone like Naut, Rammus, or Udyr, and she doesn't a flash/jump like Jax, Shaco, or Mao, so proper warding and positioning can make her nearly a non-threat. Her damage doesn't really pick up until she has a couple items, either, so she's mainly support ganking, which you can do better with someone like Naut, Voli, Mao, or Nunu.
Not to say she's bad, but not top-shelf jungling unless you're way outclassing your opponents and get fed a couple kills early on.
I was fighting a Shy on patch day, and she "got away" with five passive stacks/Ignite on her. She had about 1/4 HP, so I just assumed she was fine... like ten seconds later it was like "An Enemy has been Slain! RAMPAGE!"
the hook is the worst part about darius it's the most annoying part of nautilus and blitz, and they don't even have kill potential. put it on someone with MASSIVE kill potential and it's just a major gaffe imo
As soon as they nerf Dairus he's going to fall in the same category as Xin tho.People cry a lot about him right now but lets call it what it is,he isn't the best champion out there.He only has . As soon as he falls behind against a hero that has reasonable sustain he gets wrecked.Not to mention that he is free food for junglers and n1 camping material in top lane.Snowball champs are retarded when they snowball and it feel's unfair when they do,but they are very hit and miss against people that know what they are doing.I agree that his ult is over the top right now and they will probably nerf it,but when they do he's going to be trash probably. I still think that pre akali/gunblade nerf she was worse than this dude.
On May 31 2012 03:59 TheKefka wrote: As soon as they nerf Dairus he's going to fall in the same category as Xin tho.People cry a lot about him right now but lets call it what it is,he isn't the best champion out there.He only has http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=cH32uAVPj9k#t=1s. As soon as he falls behind against a hero that has reasonable sustain he gets wrecked.Not to mention that he is free food for junglers and n1 camping material in top lane.Snowball champs are retarded when they snowball and it feel's unfair when they do,but they are very hit and miss against people that know what they are doing.I agree that his ult is over the top right now and they will probably nerf it,but when they do he's going to be trash probably. I still think that pre akali/gunblade nerf she was worse than this dude.
He may be "trash" or whatever, but it doesn't really take much to see that Darius is basically Garen on steroids.
As it currently stands what reason is there to play Garen when you could play Darius? Darius stronger early game, has more CC, scales significantly better, his ult does more damage, AND his ult also refreshes. And maybe Garen is trash, but that doesn't mean it is okay to take his kit and just make everything better and put it on a new champ.
I think it is stupid to say that he is balanced because a jungler can gank him... How come half of the champions in the game aren't balanced on a jungler ganking them and giving their lane opponent an advantage? Fact is he snowballs stupidly hard AND he is stupidly strong early game. Its a silly combination.
On May 31 2012 03:59 TheKefka wrote: As soon as they nerf Dairus he's going to fall in the same category as Xin tho.People cry a lot about him right now but lets call it what it is,he isn't the best champion out there.He only has http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=cH32uAVPj9k#t=1s. As soon as he falls behind against a hero that has reasonable sustain he gets wrecked.Not to mention that he is free food for junglers and n1 camping material in top lane.Snowball champs are retarded when they snowball and it feel's unfair when they do,but they are very hit and miss against people that know what they are doing.I agree that his ult is over the top right now and they will probably nerf it,but when they do he's going to be trash probably. I still think that pre akali/gunblade nerf she was worse than this dude.
He may be "trash" or whatever, but it doesn't really take much to see that Darius is basically Garen on steroids.
As it currently stands what reason is there to play Garen when you could play Darius? Darius stronger early game, has more CC, scales significantly better, his ult does more damage, AND his ult also refreshes. And maybe Garen is trash, but that doesn't mean it is okay to take his kit and just make everything better and put it on a new champ.
I think it is stupid to say that he is balanced because a jungler can gank him... How come half of the champions in the game aren't balanced on a jungler ganking them and giving their lane opponent an advantage? Fact is he snowballs stupidly hard AND he is stupidly strong early game. Its a silly combination.
His lack of CC, mobility and sustain means it's much easier for a jungle to camp him and force him out. If you camp someone like, say, Lee Sin, he'll just dash around, heal himself, and shield the damage then kick you away. He's incredibly hard to gank. Nasus is hard to gank because he's rarely below full health thanks to his passive and will just Wither one of you, then ult to become super hard to kill. Irelia can't really be CC'd and has massive sustain with her Ult, and will stun someone if you get her low.
If you gank Darius, what can he do? Using any sort of CC (hard or soft, even) on him decreases his effectiveness tremendously, all he can do is try to blitz both of you down or manually run back to tower while you chase.
I never said he isn't strong and I agree that his kit is retarded.Not from stand point that he is OP but that there's no way to correctly balance this dude.You take some away from his "GO" skills and he becomes bad. They only make champions with such retarded skill set to make money and fill their a champion every 2-3 weeks quota. As soon as people spend as much money as possible on it,around the time the QQ reaches its peak they hit it with a nerf bat and that's the end of it.Story of pub stompers.
On May 31 2012 03:59 TheKefka wrote: As soon as they nerf Dairus he's going to fall in the same category as Xin tho.People cry a lot about him right now but lets call it what it is,he isn't the best champion out there.He only has http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=cH32uAVPj9k#t=1s. As soon as he falls behind against a hero that has reasonable sustain he gets wrecked.Not to mention that he is free food for junglers and n1 camping material in top lane.Snowball champs are retarded when they snowball and it feel's unfair when they do,but they are very hit and miss against people that know what they are doing.I agree that his ult is over the top right now and they will probably nerf it,but when they do he's going to be trash probably. I still think that pre akali/gunblade nerf she was worse than this dude.
He may be "trash" or whatever, but it doesn't really take much to see that Darius is basically Garen on steroids.
As it currently stands what reason is there to play Garen when you could play Darius? Darius stronger early game, has more CC, scales significantly better, his ult does more damage, AND his ult also refreshes. And maybe Garen is trash, but that doesn't mean it is okay to take his kit and just make everything better and put it on a new champ.
I think it is stupid to say that he is balanced because a jungler can gank him... How come half of the champions in the game aren't balanced on a jungler ganking them and giving their lane opponent an advantage? Fact is he snowballs stupidly hard AND he is stupidly strong early game. Its a silly combination.
His lack of CC, mobility and sustain means it's much easier for a jungle to camp him and force him out. If you camp someone like, say, Lee Sin, he'll just dash around, heal himself, and shield the damage then kick you away. He's incredibly hard to gank. Nasus is hard to gank because he's rarely below full health thanks to his passive and will just Wither one of you, then ult to become super hard to kill. Irelia can't really be CC'd and has massive sustain with her Ult, and will stun someone if you get her low.
If you gank Darius, what can he do? Using any sort of CC (hard or soft, even) on him decreases his effectiveness tremendously, all he can do is try to blitz both of you down or manually run back to tower while you chase.
So you're telling me half the top laners in the game are useless because you can gank them easily and they have no good gap closers? Huh.
On May 31 2012 03:59 TheKefka wrote: As soon as they nerf Dairus he's going to fall in the same category as Xin tho.People cry a lot about him right now but lets call it what it is,he isn't the best champion out there.He only has http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=cH32uAVPj9k#t=1s. As soon as he falls behind against a hero that has reasonable sustain he gets wrecked.Not to mention that he is free food for junglers and n1 camping material in top lane.Snowball champs are retarded when they snowball and it feel's unfair when they do,but they are very hit and miss against people that know what they are doing.I agree that his ult is over the top right now and they will probably nerf it,but when they do he's going to be trash probably. I still think that pre akali/gunblade nerf she was worse than this dude.
He may be "trash" or whatever, but it doesn't really take much to see that Darius is basically Garen on steroids.
As it currently stands what reason is there to play Garen when you could play Darius? Darius stronger early game, has more CC, scales significantly better, his ult does more damage, AND his ult also refreshes. And maybe Garen is trash, but that doesn't mean it is okay to take his kit and just make everything better and put it on a new champ.
I think it is stupid to say that he is balanced because a jungler can gank him... How come half of the champions in the game aren't balanced on a jungler ganking them and giving their lane opponent an advantage? Fact is he snowballs stupidly hard AND he is stupidly strong early game. Its a silly combination.
His lack of CC, mobility and sustain means it's much easier for a jungle to camp him and force him out. If you camp someone like, say, Lee Sin, he'll just dash around, heal himself, and shield the damage then kick you away. He's incredibly hard to gank. Nasus is hard to gank because he's rarely below full health thanks to his passive and will just Wither one of you, then ult to become super hard to kill. Irelia can't really be CC'd and has massive sustain with her Ult, and will stun someone if you get her low.
If you gank Darius, what can he do? Using any sort of CC (hard or soft, even) on him decreases his effectiveness tremendously, all he can do is try to blitz both of you down or manually run back to tower while you chase.
So you're telling me half the top laners in the game are useless because you can gank them easily and they have no good gap closers? Huh.
Tell me a single decent top laner that is considered good and has no form of escape apart from flash.
EPT
