[Patch 1.0.0.140: Darius] General Discussion - Page 61

On May 30 2012 19:25 1ntrigue wrote:

At least Nautilus is original and interesting. I mean, bullshit champs can be balanced with numbers, but boring champs stay boring. It ticks me off that DotA has heroes with awesome skills like Windrunner's shackle shot and we get a crappy Varus ult in response.

On May 30 2012 20:03 Craton wrote:
American public schools are done for the year in about 2 weeks.

On May 30 2012 19:44 Shiv. wrote:

Killing every single person in a teamfight in the most dunkingly manner is interesting too, so that's my take on Darius. I wasn't even talking about how interesting those champs are - they're just insanely STRONG.

On May 30 2012 21:46 Goragoth wrote:

I think the point 1ntrigue is trying to make though is that the type of kit itself doesn't make a hero strong or weak, the numbers are what matters. Some kits are certainly harder to balance than others (Eve comes to mind, perma-stealth is hard to make powerful enough to be useful while not becoming insanely good) but the numbers are still key. Nothing about Darius is inherently broken in my opinion and I don't think balancing him will even be that hard. Either nerf the damage on his ult (probably the bonus % from his passive) or raise the manacost (either straight up to say 200 or linearly/exponentially so each successive use in a short period makes it more expensive much like Kog ult). I think the basic idea behind the mechanic and the flavour of it is pretty good, it just seems a little too easy to (ab)use right now.

On May 30 2012 22:05 1ntrigue wrote:


Edit: Responding to above. Nah, I'm not fine with any OP champs, but my point was that they can still be balanced (although a snowball champ is impossible to balance to a consistent short-term winrate). What I meant about Naut was that he has an interesting kit and he can be balanced with numbers, whereas some champs may be already balanced but will remain with a boring kit unless reworked (which requires much more time).

Naut can be balanced by tweaking numbers on the cc effects.

On May 30 2012 21:57 Shiv. wrote:

To me it sounded more like he was fine with one champ being stronger than another, as long as the strong one is at least interesting to play with/against.

Concerning Darius: his ult is dumb, but at this point, it's not even what bugs me the most. Have you seen anyone competent lane this champ against another melee? It's quite the saddening sight actually.

And even then, I doubt every champ can be fixed by tweaking numbers. Even if Naut dealt half the damage he deals now (I'm obviously exaggerating here), he'd be insanely useful because he has a repositioning tool for both him and his enemies, a stun, and AoE slow, another stun that can potentially knock numerous people up... He's just good. Ahri is a lot like that - her kit is just really, really good and unless you intentionally overnerf her, I don't see how you could stop her from being a really strong pick.

Also, increasing the mana cost is most likely not something they'll end up doing because it's ''unfun''. No point in having an ability if you're not going to be able to use it. That's not my opinion, that's reasoning Riot has used in the past. I'm guessing they're either going to take away the true damage or the CD reset.

That's just my honest opinion though, and I might be a litte bit upset with Riot at the moment, so if it sounds like rambling to you, just ignore my post.

On May 30 2012 22:22 Shiv. wrote:
I get your point about kits now, I still think that a Nautilus-esque kit (much like my other example, Ahri) is just inherently too good to really balance without making them useless. I don't see a soft spot for Nautilus, just because the sheer amount of CC he offers. It doesn't really matter that much wether his E slows for 20% or for 30% and if said slow lasts for .75 or a whole second - it's still going to offer great teamfight control. Same goes for his passive, Q and R. I'm not sure how Riot would balance these numbers without rendering him utterly ineffective.

As said, that's just my take on his kit or other kits that just synergize inherently well or with other champions.

On May 30 2012 22:24 Goragoth wrote:

You're right that they probably won't straight up raise the mana cost but having it increase on successive casts would reasonable I think. You would still be able to use the ability once, probably even twice but would reduce the "hey, I'ma kill your whole team now" thing that you get right now. Whether or not this is the correct way to balance him I don't know.

On May 30 2012 22:35 Numy wrote:
Well isn't Leona's stuff harder to land then all of Nautilus's? His anchor seems quite easy to land and has to have some sick play by the enemy to dodge it.

On May 30 2012 22:38 Shiv. wrote:

yeah, also his numbers are stronger and he has a slow and, in case of cooldowns, just jumps around in a teamfight stunning everything that's near him. What's your point?

On May 30 2012 22:22 Shiv. wrote:
I still think that a Nautilus-esque kit ... is just inherently too good to really balance without making them useless. I don't see a soft spot for Nautilus, just because the sheer amount of CC he offers [...] I'm not sure how Riot would balance these numbers without rendering him utterly ineffective.

On May 30 2012 23:07 Dark_Chill wrote:
If I counted right, with the new champ Riot will be at 99 champs. Hopefully the last one is new support champ, want to see some more variety in bot lane.
But does anyone know what they'll be doing after the 100th champion? Will they be just fixing all the champs? Adding in features? I know that won't make them much money, but they could probably work around that (making sure all the champs have the same number of skins or something, introduce a new bundle)

On May 30 2012 20:03 Craton wrote:
American public schools are done for the year in about 2 weeks.