• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 23:21
CEST 05:21
KST 12:21
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202547RSL Season 1 - Final Week9[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16
Community News
BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams4Weekly Cups (July 14-20): Final Check-up0Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed19Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll8Team TLMC #5 - Submission re-extension4
StarCraft 2
General
TG**thegodfadadxxb WEED IN DUBAI, SHARJAH Jim claims he and Firefly were involved in match-fixing Power Rank - Esports World Cup 2025 RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread RSL Season 1 - Final Week
Tourneys
Esports World Cup 2025 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation #239 Bad Weather Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ [Update] ShieldBattery: 1v1 Fastest Support! Ginuda's JaeDong Interview Series ASL20 Preliminary Maps BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams
Tourneys
CSL Xiamen International Invitational [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [CSLPRO] It's CSLAN Season! - Last Chance [BSL 2v2] ProLeague Season 3 - Friday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok) Path of Exile CCLP - Command & Conquer League Project
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Games Industry And ATVI Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Socialism Anyone?
GreenHorizons
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 636 users

[Patch 1.0.0.139: Spectator Mode] General Discussion - Pag…

Forum Index > LoL General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 213 214 215 216 217 225 Next
TwoToneTerran
Profile Joined March 2009
United States8841 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-21 21:00:29
May 21 2012 20:45 GMT
#4281
On May 22 2012 05:35 jcarlsoniv wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 22 2012 05:34 TwoToneTerran wrote:
If Lee starts red and you're his first gank top that means you get to see him come through the tri brush, right? Or is he going to take the long path around through the river to get to the brush to camp you?

If Shaco does the exact same thing then he's literally behind you, with a box to your only retreat path even if you flash, while you're exhausted, hitting you with red buff.


...wat?

If Lee sin is level 2 ganking you after red buff and you're top lane, that means he's purple side and his only time efficient gank path to gank top after red means him running through his own tribrush to camp your river brush(as mogwai pointed out, he sits in your river brush waiting for you to walk up to last hit). Unless your lane opponent can flash cc you, you can strafe around the bottom area of your lane (where the river is at) to have full view of the exit from the enemy tri brush. The only way for him to circumvent this vision is to loop around the path between wraiths and red and go into river and walk all the way up to your river brush while hugging the wall to get there.

You will probably have to sacrifice 1 melee creep and a ranged creep or two out of your first wave to keep the vision up, but if he's still camping you then it's worth it to make him miss jungling time and let your lane push.

Edit: Visual aid

[image loading]

If lee's ganking you right after red, then that's the path he usually has to take in red. If you stand in the white area and forego a last hit or two, he can't even come close to you unless your lane opponent can quickly cc you from where they're last hitting at.

If you're on purple side and he's on blue side then the only way he's level 2 ganking you is if he started blue and then he can come behind you from your own tribrush which kinda sucks but any exhaust jungler can pretty much do the same. But he's got no red buff and if your jungler started red then that can really turn the situation, also the second you see him come behind you that way you can flash and start running and probably survive, but you've definitely lost your lane (as you have no matter what when you get ganked and your jungler doesn't gank for you so eh).

I always thought the scariest gank top lane was if I'm purple side and the enemy has a nautilus. That anchor's pretty easy to land, he can gank me right after blue then that snare and damage from his shield is a pain. Lee's still a scary ganker, but I always thought he really needs his whole set of skills that give him crazy maneuverability to be really scary, unlike shaco who has annoying invisiblinks and extra damage if you run away.

I mean heck if you're any kind of champion with an ability to ranged farm then this is even easier to pull off since you can last hit that way and be relatively safe. I guess if you're playing pantheon this blows ass though since if you're not being aggressive on pantheon you lose horribly. It's really situational but I always though lee's ganks don't get really scary until he's level 3 and can safegaurd to reliably gap close and set up his plethora of bullshit.
Remember Violet.
Mogwai
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States13274 Posts
May 21 2012 20:59 GMT
#4282
So wait, you're putting yourself further from your tower to stay safer... what?
mogwaismusings.wordpress.com
TwoToneTerran
Profile Joined March 2009
United States8841 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-21 21:02:49
May 21 2012 21:01 GMT
#4283
On May 22 2012 05:59 Mogwai wrote:
So wait, you're putting yourself further from your tower to stay safer... what?

Yes? Vision and knowing if he's coming or not are more important. He can't get close to you if you see him, and if you see him you can outrun him to your tower, generally. Unless he takes the time to lane gank which is pretty hard at level 2.

edit: The effective distance of the gank is changed. If you're in the middle of your lane and he's in your river brush, then he's closer than if you're near the bottom of your lane and he's stuck in his tribrush waiting for you to lose vision of the tribrush exit. You're farther away from your tower, but Lee Sin is farther away from you.
Remember Violet.
TheKefka
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Croatia11752 Posts
May 21 2012 21:02 GMT
#4284
Or you could always,you know,ask your support to ward the tri against retarded lvl 2 gankers.
Cackle™
TwoToneTerran
Profile Joined March 2009
United States8841 Posts
May 21 2012 21:04 GMT
#4285
Asking a support to use a ward on a lane that's not his almost never works in soloqueue.
Remember Violet.
Mogwai
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States13274 Posts
May 21 2012 21:05 GMT
#4286
On May 22 2012 06:01 TwoToneTerran wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 22 2012 05:59 Mogwai wrote:
So wait, you're putting yourself further from your tower to stay safer... what?

Yes? Vision and knowing if he's coming or not are more important. He can't get close to you if you see him, and if you see him you can outrun him to your tower, generally. Unless he takes the time to lane gank which is pretty hard at level 2.

edit: The effective distance of the gank is changed. If you're in the middle of your lane and he's in your river brush, then he's closer than if you're near the bottom of your lane and he's stuck in his tribrush waiting for you to lose vision of the tribrush exit. You're farther away from your tower, but Lee Sin is farther away from you.

Except now your lane opponent can cut you off from your tower. Which typically fucks you just as badly, depending on who your lane opponent is.

On May 22 2012 06:02 TheKefka wrote:
Or you could always,you know,ask your support to ward the tri against retarded lvl 2 gankers.

Have you played solo queue before?
mogwaismusings.wordpress.com
TwoToneTerran
Profile Joined March 2009
United States8841 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-21 21:12:01
May 21 2012 21:06 GMT
#4287
On May 22 2012 06:05 Mogwai wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 22 2012 06:01 TwoToneTerran wrote:
On May 22 2012 05:59 Mogwai wrote:
So wait, you're putting yourself further from your tower to stay safer... what?

Yes? Vision and knowing if he's coming or not are more important. He can't get close to you if you see him, and if you see him you can outrun him to your tower, generally. Unless he takes the time to lane gank which is pretty hard at level 2.

edit: The effective distance of the gank is changed. If you're in the middle of your lane and he's in your river brush, then he's closer than if you're near the bottom of your lane and he's stuck in his tribrush waiting for you to lose vision of the tribrush exit. You're farther away from your tower, but Lee Sin is farther away from you.

Except now your lane opponent can cut you off from your tower. Which typically fucks you just as badly, depending on who your lane opponent is.


I agree, it's all situational. I specifically said if your lane opponent can quickly cc you if you stand there then you're screwed no matter what you do against any good ganker. Your lane opponent would have to walk past your own creeps to cut you off that way, though. It'd be obvious aggression in which case you'd just have to abandon the lane knowing you're camped. It's how any level 2 gank works when you don't have your own jungle support, though.

What good top laners can actually cut you off at level 1, though? Maybe olaf if he starts Q and knows he's getting a gank but that will just force your flash over the edge there to separate you from Lee. I suppose Udyr could too if he starts bear but fuck udyr anyhow.

If he camps till level 2 then a few more options open up like Jarvan/Pantheon/Irelia et al but man, if your enemy jungler is camping you for multiple waves then you might want to call it a lane anyhow.
Remember Violet.
beefhamburger
Profile Joined December 2007
United States3962 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-21 21:13:58
May 21 2012 21:08 GMT
#4288

Start at 2:00
TheKefka
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Croatia11752 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-21 21:09:03
May 21 2012 21:08 GMT
#4289
Lol I know there are people out there that refuse to do it but usually when I ask nicely and explain to the guy why its beneficial to us if he drops a ward at the wraiths,they usually do it.I don't see why it should be any different if you play top and ask nicely for a ward in the tri.I mean yea lol has people that don't care about other lanes but from my exp you just have to ask nicely and 7 times out of 10 you'll get the ward.
Cackle™
TwoToneTerran
Profile Joined March 2009
United States8841 Posts
May 21 2012 21:10 GMT
#4290
Maybe on EU servers. I've asked for pre minion spawn support warding and have never, ever been given it. I even said "Shyvanna is going to go straight to my red, if you ward it we can kill her" while I was jungling and they said "no need my wards" and what would you know, shyvanna went to my red and got away.
Remember Violet.
dignity
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Canada908 Posts
May 21 2012 21:12 GMT
#4291
Ever since I learned the benefits of warding wraiths prespawn, I religiously do it when I play support.
TheKefka
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Croatia11752 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-21 21:15:07
May 21 2012 21:13 GMT
#4292
Well when I support and the enemy has like a leesin jungle,shaco,alistar or something stupid like that,first thing I do is go drop a ward up top or wraiths depending on the lanes.Maybe its karma,but really you just have to explain to the dude that there is a high % chance you'll get firstblooded if you don't get it and there is not much you can do about it.They usually understand the fb part and give you a ward.
Cackle™
TwoToneTerran
Profile Joined March 2009
United States8841 Posts
May 21 2012 21:15 GMT
#4293
You guys are the exceptions. Asking nicely does not work, especially in solo queue (and especially at my crappy elo).
Remember Violet.
De4ngus
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States6533 Posts
May 21 2012 21:17 GMT
#4294
On May 22 2012 06:08 TheKefka wrote:
Lol I know there are people out there that refuse to do it but usually when I ask nicely and explain to the guy why its beneficial to us if he drops a ward at the wraiths,they usually do it.I don't see why it should be any different if you play top and ask nicely for a ward in the tri.I mean yea lol has people that don't care about other lanes but from my exp you just have to ask nicely and 7 times out of 10 you'll get the ward.

you definitely dont want a ward in the tri. if you support is willing to do this, get the river bush warded. most asshole junglers sit there for days.
GANDHISAUCE
TheKefka
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Croatia11752 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-21 21:21:54
May 21 2012 21:20 GMT
#4295
Well I guess the best option would be than to just ward the river in between the tri and river brush since you can see them coming from the tri sooner and from the river as well.Also you can see if they leave the brush or not.It's not like your gonna get lane ganked at lvl 2
Cackle™
De4ngus
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States6533 Posts
May 21 2012 21:22 GMT
#4296
On May 22 2012 06:08 beefhamburger wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsfMGomolio
Start at 2:00

well link IS is original lee singa. too bad he got kicked in the ass by hotshotnidaleegg that tourney.
GANDHISAUCE
Bambipwnsu
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Canada698 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-21 21:26:58
May 21 2012 21:24 GMT
#4297
someone needs to play some more top lane xD
You guys could just test it out, custom game 1v1 + lee sin jungle. I bet after 2 or so runs you'd be scared shitless to take that CS at gank time lol
LoL @ NA: bambipwnsu
TwoToneTerran
Profile Joined March 2009
United States8841 Posts
May 21 2012 21:28 GMT
#4298
I even said you are going to miss CS. If you are getting level two ganked, losing 60 gold but keeping XP is a win in my book.

And also knowing there's no possibility of counter gank really fucks up any scenario.
Remember Violet.
Dandel Ion
Profile Joined November 2010
Austria17960 Posts
May 21 2012 21:30 GMT
#4299
Practical application of warding for other lanes:
1.) Ward for top against a lvl2 red ganker
2.) He gets ganked by the jungler running through the ward
3.) Still first blood

Every time.
A backwards poet writes inverse.
Zergneedsfood
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States10671 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-21 21:36:50
May 21 2012 21:36 GMT
#4300
Whenever I play support I always drop a ward in the appropriate place if I think a level 2 gank is possible from guys like Lee Sin or Alistar.

And then whenever I'm top and I realize that the other jungler is a pretty decent level 2 ganker, I just play a bit more safe. At my ELO I don't need the early ward because the other top laner is usually bad and doesn't understand using flash to secure a kill with a cc spell (riven is probably a good example of this), but when I feel like a lot of other tops need it, I give it to them.

THAT, or if the other person took top from me and I REALLY REALLY wanted to play top that day, I usually just wait for the fb and then laugh.
/人◕ ‿‿ ◕人\ Make a contract with me and join TLADT | Onodera isn't actually a girl, she's just a doormat you walk over to get to the girl. - Numy 2015
Prev 1 213 214 215 216 217 225 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 6h 39m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
WinterStarcraft416
Livibee 115
Ketroc 40
StarCraft: Brood War
Light 3245
HiyA 181
ggaemo 109
Noble 89
NaDa 68
Sharp 66
Icarus 4
Stormgate
Vindicta22
Dota 2
monkeys_forever1139
League of Legends
JimRising 756
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K701
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox548
Other Games
summit1g15849
tarik_tv6911
ViBE224
Maynarde139
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1842
BasetradeTV36
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 64
• practicex 33
• intothetv
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki10
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Doublelift4153
• Scarra1571
Other Games
• Shiphtur318
Upcoming Events
Esports World Cup
6h 39m
Reynor vs Zoun
Solar vs SHIN
Classic vs ShoWTimE
Cure vs Rogue
Esports World Cup
1d 7h
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
2 days
CSO Cup
2 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
2 days
Bonyth vs Sziky
Dewalt vs Hawk
Hawk vs QiaoGege
Sziky vs Dewalt
Mihu vs Bonyth
Zhanhun vs QiaoGege
QiaoGege vs Fengzi
FEL
3 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
3 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
3 days
Bonyth vs Zhanhun
Dewalt vs Mihu
Hawk vs Sziky
Sziky vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs Hawk
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs Bonyth
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
[ Show More ]
Online Event
5 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Xiamen Invitational
Championship of Russia 2025
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL20 Non-Korean Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
CC Div. A S7
Underdog Cup #2
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25

Upcoming

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #2
ASL Season 20
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
SEL Season 2 Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
FEL Cracov 2025
HCC Europe
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.