[Patch 1.0.0.139: Spectator Mode] General Discussion - Pag…

On May 22 2012 04:35 jcarlsoniv wrote:


Pretty much this. Once you learn how to lane when the enemy has Shaco, it's super easy, and he falls off so hard late. I'd much rather play mid with an enemy Shaco than Naut or Ali

On May 22 2012 05:08 gtrsrs wrote:
in twotoneterran's world, everyone has complete map vision and perfect map awareness, there is no fog of war, and his enemy is always pushing to his tower where he can last hit safely

let's not destroy his rosy version of lol

On May 22 2012 05:03 TwoToneTerran wrote:
"Just runs at you" is akin to a Shyvanna gank, only he doesn't even run at you fast. The range on E is really low, how do you get caught by his e in a gank? The counter is literally to walk the other way. Atleast shaco has a blink that sets up red buff + exhaust and a way to cut off your escape. Lee's level 2 is only bullshit in the same way all level 2 ganks are bullshit because they put you way behind having to avoid them.

The only way I see E being a problem in a level 2 gank is if he hits his q first, or if you're really overextended and can't just walk away from him yourself.

On May 22 2012 05:11 TwoToneTerran wrote:


Oh look, a stupid ad hominem that doesn't even begin to take into account the premise of the argument. We're talking about specifically level 2 ganks and if you're pushing at level 1 (when they're level 2 ganking) when the enemy team has shaco or Lee sin jungling, then you're stupid.

Lee Sin is WAY better than Shaco in general, I'm talking specifically level 2 ganks. The ones that come at 2:10~2:30. Do you always push your lane first thing when you know they have a jungler who ganks at level 2?

On May 22 2012 05:15 Mogwai wrote:

What?

Shyvanna gets to you and uhhh, I guess exhausts you, then you flash and she goes, "well shit" and goes back in the jungle where she belongs. Lee gets to you, Exhausts, hits E, you flash, he follows your flash with Q Q and kills you. Using his Q to get on top of you at the begining of the gank isn't even that strong, just running at them is a stronger way to bait your flash and guarantee his Q hits.

On May 22 2012 05:20 TwoToneTerran wrote:

My point is how do you get caught by someone just running at you? The range on his E is awful. Who let's Lee sin walk up to within 350 range of them? If he gets exhaust up you flash then and there and you're practically at your tower already. I get this is MUCH more dangerous in a pushed lane which is why I qualified by saying anytime after level 2 I'm more scared of Lee. At level 2 Shaco blinks behind you most of the time and can box your retreat and exhaust you.

I understand if you're against a lane with a level 1 cc like Ryze that it might be stronger since he can force it on you, but I seriously don't see how Lee Sin is getting within 350 range of you with those early ganks where neither lane is really pushing.

I figure if Lee starts boots and you didn't this could be a different situation but in general Lee's level 2 does not seem that scary to me. I wouldn't even come close to putting it in the same realm of pain as Alistar and Naut.

On May 22 2012 05:23 gtrsrs wrote:


if you go to lane and your opponent is late, and you take your "free" cs because he's missing, you've already pushed the lane enough for a lee to walk up and gank you for free. either you take your free cs while you can or you zone yourself when there's no enemy even in the lane. any time you go to commit/harass/take a cs that's too extended, lee has a window to walk up and E you

On May 22 2012 05:20 TwoToneTerran wrote:

My point is how do you get caught by someone just running at you? The range on his E is awful. Who let's Lee sin walk up to within 350 range of them? If he gets exhaust up you flash then and there and you're practically at your tower already. I get this is MUCH more dangerous in a pushed lane which is why I qualified by saying anytime after level 2 I'm more scared of Lee. At level 2 Shaco blinks behind you most of the time and can box your retreat and exhaust you.

I understand if you're against a lane with a level 1 cc like Ryze that it might be stronger since he can force it on you, but I seriously don't see how Lee Sin is getting within 350 range of you with those early ganks where neither lane is really pushing.

I figure if Lee starts boots and you didn't this could be a different situation but in general Lee's level 2 does not seem that scary to me. I wouldn't even come close to putting it in the same realm of pain as Alistar and Naut.

On May 22 2012 05:34 TwoToneTerran wrote:
If Lee starts red and you're his first gank top that means you get to see him come through the tri brush, right? Or is he going to take the long path around through the river to get to the brush to camp you?

If Shaco does the exact same thing then he's literally behind you, with a box to your only retreat path even if you flash, while you're exhausted, hitting you with red buff.