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On May 11 2012 23:54 turdburgler wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2012 23:38 N3rV[Green] wrote:
As an example, this turdburgler guy above me....nothing but theorycrafttheorycrafttheorycraft. Why not just go ask a buddy to pick garen, go into a custom game, and check out how it works for 5 minutes?
because why would i put more effort into testing the result when the guy asking the question put in 0 effort? if you ask a theory based question, expect a theory based answer. if he came to the thread and said his 2.4k elo friend who only plays fizz says garen sucks vs fizz then i wouldnt of said what i did.
I don't own either champ and the dude in question has already spat out a good deal of bullshit (like "Kayle sucks ass top, partly because she has no escapes and her ult can't save her from ganks apart from tower dives"), so with what the theory and my own knowledge tell me, what I quoted here appeared fishy to me, but I wouldn't call him out on it w/o knowing myself; that'd be dumb. So I asked my question here, in case somebody who actually has experience of the match-up, or knowledge of stuff I neglected/missed can confirm/deny my assumptions.
You're reading too much into it, really.  Also the dude is 1350 Elo but from what I've seen he still makes basic mistakes so it's not like I'd give it too much credit.
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On May 12 2012 00:10 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2012 23:59 N3rV[Green] wrote:On May 11 2012 23:46 zulu_nation8 wrote:
90% of the time player with higher skill wins lane, some MUs are harder than others but there are way less hard counters than people think. Thank you all, mostly just looking for some sanity in the chaos that is people playing this game, but this is what I've stood by ever since my DotA days. I mean I do understand that some matchups are just really really hard, but it still won't make your champ useless ya know? The idea of counters seems to be focused on the laning phase, and most of the time it's between the mid/top laners. But the game is NEVER a 1v1, no matter what. Having your jungler come camp a hard lane to help you out, having mid come top/bot come mid and make plays, 5v5 teamfights as well, the "counters" shouldn't really matter at all if you just play it well right? I honestly think my biggest problem is the massive amount of theorycrafting people use to justify things, and then through my direct experience i find it to be absolutely untrue. But then again, I am at 1.1k elo, and shit is fucking nasty down there. The most important thing imo is to realise that soloQ has nothing to do with tournament games. As others have said yes counters are very real but only if 2 people of equal skill meet.
Why do people keep saying this, its total bullshit. I'll confidently lane my kassadin vs a karthus at 2k, wheras I'd get my ass pounded playing my Xerath vs their Ahri.
counterpicking clearly has a huge effect even if one player is far better than the other, they might win with a countered champ but they might have to be like 4x as good as me.
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Try running against smash top. Even if he gives you an unfavorable matchup, he will still beat you, and likely badly.
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On May 12 2012 00:40 Two_DoWn wrote:
Try running against smash top. Even if he gives you an unfavorable matchup, he will still beat you, and likely badly.
I'm sure he would, my top is pretty bad, but I bet he would agree that he would have a much harder/easier time in some MU's than others.
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On May 11 2012 18:27 storkfan wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2012 09:20 overt wrote:
Caitlyn has best lane phase of all the AD carries. She has less dps late game and a pretty trash midgame but while she deals less dps than like corki/vayne/graves she does her damage much more safely due to her long range. I don't think there's a single AD carry that is 'bad' lategame. if you want that theres urgot.. much better lane and utility makes him useful
Urgot can bully some lanes pretty hard. There is no way in hell that Urgot has a 'better' or 'safer' lane phase than Caitlyn though. Caitlyn is also gonna do a lot more damage than Urgot late game and is better at sieging towers late game.
Urgot lane reliant on two things. First, your enemy has to get hit by your Es. Which is a combination of your skill and their ability to dodge them. So not only do you have to play well but your opponent has to mis-play for the lane to be effective pre-6. After that it's reliant on jungler ganks because often times just your ult isn't enough to get kills against most competent bot lanes. Urgot definitely good but his lane is a lot riskier than Caitlyn's and is just as reliant on your ability to play well as it is on your opponent's ability to play poorly.
Finally the two champs fill completely different roles. If you want a late game dps you wouldn't pick Cait or Urgot. If you want a champ that's safe you'd definitely pick Cait over Urgot because Urgot's lane phase is not as safe as Caitlyn's. If you want a champ in a team comp that looks to siege towers and push as a team Caitlyn is going to be one of your best picks (only better AD pick is Kog for pushing/tower sieging). If you wanted to run like a tanky comp or you needed an AD with initiation then you'd pick Urgot.
As for solo queue play, people are usually gonna play whatever AD champ they want regardless of what their team needs. So if you're a better Urgot play Urgot. If you're a better Cait play Cait. Both are 100% viable and good given the right team.
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How to beat Smash: Play Vladmir against his Teemo
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I h8 these ninja patches.... geeze they annoy me
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Lol, I just started up a normal and some guy was trying to get an "all-assassin team"....I was like screw you im going Ad Malz
He suggested Wukong as an assassin....because he has a gap closer.
This just in: Malphite/Alistar sickest assassins in the game
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Did you guys know Veigar gets 5ap from killing Wukong decoy?
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On May 12 2012 01:15 sob3k wrote:
Did you guys know Veigar gets 5ap from killing Wukong decoy?
That's brilliant, lol. I only know that the clone is worth 50gold (?) so I never feel all that bad about hard-targetting the clone instead of the real thing.
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Getting countered in lane does matter. Unless you're like 200 elo above the other guy which you're not. Usually when i would duo queue with someone 200-300 elo below me. I'd first pick top, get countered, and only manage to get like 20-40 cs ahead of the other laner. Not enough to carry my friend who is getting his ass handed to him by a guy 200 elo above him in another lane.
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On May 12 2012 01:28 Cloud wrote:
Getting countered in lane does matter. Unless you're like 200 elo above the other guy which you're not. Usually when i would duo queue with someone 200-300 elo below me. I'd first pick top, get countered, and only manage to get like 20-40 cs ahead of the other laner. Not enough to carry my friend who is getting his ass handed to him by a guy 200 elo above him in another lane.
Getting countered in lane does matter to some degree, runes, item build, masteries and skill order also make a huge difference which people never really seem to take into account.
They just blindly counterpick and wonder why they didn't crush them.
It is true that some champs have an easier time in lane than their enemies though.
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I really need to read the description on character abilities. I didn't even know how Veiger ultimate works and that it does more damage to targets with high AP. That's such an odd design.
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That's an antimage design. Now imagine two Veigar ducking it out...
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First picking some champions is just asking to get hard-countered, that's why people complain in solo Q. That's why you should either pick a really solid top/mid that can play versus pretty much anything, or pick jungle/bot lane that isn't as easy to counter pick.
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like has been said before though, the only reason the 4th/5th pick are telling you that you're going to get countered is because they want to to play top/mid themselves, and in all likelihood they have one champ that they have already decided to play regardless of who the other team selects and are just as likely to counterpick themselves as you are to get countered.
as long as you're early picking generally op champs that are hard to counter or play multiple roles like ahri, kennen, riven, udyr, etc. you really don't have to worry about it at most elos.
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On May 12 2012 01:46 Alaric wrote:That's an antimage design. Now imagine two Veigar ducking it out...
Not a fun matchup. Whoever gets caught in the stun dies. Or really, whoever gets ulti'd dies lol. (Unless of course the other veigar gets some mr or BV to survive the initial ulti but he still won't survive a full combo most of the time).
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Some champions are just straight up bad as first picks because of the fact really hard counters exist for them. The best example I can think of atm is TF. Picking TF as first pick is asking for a slam dunk mid lane (veigar and leblanc). TF op otherwise though ;P.
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I love going LB vs TF lawl, then build mobility boots then do the roaming he would've done
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EPT
