EPTI dunno, I mean I guess if you are finding champions boring to play/not fun to buy, I have to question what you want me or anyone else to do about it. I mean I dunno I think Brand's a pretty neat champion, same with the current naut and hell most of the champions of current I find are fun or at least not something entirely pointless.
[Patch 1.0.0.138: Hecarim] General Discussion - Page 15
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Parnage
United States7414 Posts
I dunno, I mean I guess if you are finding champions boring to play/not fun to buy, I have to question what you want me or anyone else to do about it. I mean I dunno I think Brand's a pretty neat champion, same with the current naut and hell most of the champions of current I find are fun or at least not something entirely pointless. | ||
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Perplex
United States1693 Posts
On April 19 2012 06:14 Seuss wrote: Xerath would be twice as fun if his spells didn't sound and look like you were zapping people with "Baby's First Taser". He's really strong when I play him, but I literally never have fun on him no matter how well I do. I think part of it is that he only has 2 "real" spells including his ultimate. His W and E are both extremely unexciting. W gives you range and E is only for setting up stuns.. only 2 of your abilities actually do something, and the particle/sound effects on those are boring too :| | ||
Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21243 Posts
On April 19 2012 06:00 Unentschieden wrote: Wukongs looks and "personality" are inspired by the myth but the actual champion is centered around being a huge jerk with his decoy. Often the gameplay theme trumps the strict looks - Singed is a chemist/bioweapons guy, why does he have a wrestling move? you know the being a jerk with decoy thing is central to the myth personality too right? In fact they pretty much got WK perfect from a faithful to myth personality perspective. | ||
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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On April 19 2012 06:14 Seuss wrote: Xerath would be twice as fun if his spells didn't sound and look like you were zapping people with "Baby's First Taser". Just pull a Lux and give an otherwise bland champ a LAZOR. Instant awesomeness. | ||
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ManyCookies
1164 Posts
On April 19 2012 06:02 Mogwai wrote: Wait, what's your point? Sun Wukong is a trickster who can copy himself. What's stylistically wrong with his gameplay revolving around decoy? Except it's not really a "trickster" move with interesting mindgames. It's basically just an escape move/1.5 second stealth. There's not a lot of trickery to do with it; you're just not in enough situations to convincingly use the stop trick and establish mindgames. He needs other incentives to stand still. His abilities do reflect components of Sun Wukong, but on the whole he doesn't "feel" like a trickster. | ||
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-Zoda-
France3578 Posts
On April 19 2012 05:35 Redox wrote: Is this supposed to be a bad thing or are you applauding them? Really dont know. Just stating. | ||
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danana
United States321 Posts
On April 19 2012 06:24 ManyCookies wrote: Except it's not really a "trickster" move with interesting mindgames. It's basically just an escape move/1.5 second stealth. There's not a lot of trickery to do with it; you're just not in enough situations to convincingly use the stop trick and establish mindgames. He needs other incentives to stand still. His abilities do reflect components of Sun Wukong, but on the whole he doesn't "feel" like a trickster. sure he could be trickier than he already is, but I've seen way too many people burn their ults and summoners on ridiculously obvious decoys. :\ | ||
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clickrush
Switzerland3257 Posts
On April 19 2012 06:24 ManyCookies wrote: Except it's not really a "trickster" move with interesting mindgames. It's basically just an escape move/1.5 second stealth. There's not a lot of trickery to do with it; you're just not in enough situations to convincingly use the stop trick and establish mindgames. He needs other incentives to stand still. His abilities do reflect components of Sun Wukong, but on the whole he doesn't "feel" like a trickster. ofc it opens up for interesting mindgames. his laneing phase and skirmishes are based around doing burst trades and using decoy to bait skills, threaten trade attempts juking and gaining a little time for your skills to cool down. 1.5s isnt nothing. its how long alot of disables last for example and its enough to run a significant distance until you pop up. | ||
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arb
Noobville17921 Posts
On April 19 2012 06:08 Antyee wrote: Well, he's mostly mechanical, so some sort of physical move fits him, imo. And most importantly, he's mad. He does what he wants. He isnt actually mechanical but by lore it says he's kept alive by his own chemicals and shit. Plus I thought Singed was just an asshole not anything else? Whats more obnoxious than throwing someone over your shoulder | ||
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
On April 19 2012 06:24 ManyCookies wrote: Except it's not really a "trickster" move with interesting mindgames. It's basically just an escape move/1.5 second stealth. There's not a lot of trickery to do with it; you're just not in enough situations to convincingly use the stop trick and establish mindgames. He needs other incentives to stand still. His abilities do reflect components of Sun Wukong, but on the whole he doesn't "feel" like a trickster. Oh there are mind games. | ||
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
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petered
United States1817 Posts
That being said, here are a couple thoughts that I had about stuff I read earlier that I am not going to look up to quote directly: - I am fairly confident the point of champ spotlights is NOT to shoehorn a champion into a certain role, but to give new players a baseline idea of how to make use of the kit. Riot is extremely noob oriented so they do a lot of stuff that isn't meant for people who frequent this forum. This doesn't mean Riot always makes role specific champs (naut is not necessarily a jungler or top or support, for example). - Someone grouped ahri, brand, and ziggs as ap nukers with 4 damaging abilities. Ok seriously? Go play all three champsions. It feels almost nothing alike. also ahri and ziggs both have a non damage centric skill (ahri's charm and ziggs jump explosion thing). In fact, having 4 pure damage non steroid abilities IS pretty distinctive. They get put in a similar role but someone who likes ahri won't necessarily like ziggs and vice versa. I don't see how this is bad design or slapping kits together based on a role - While I certainly agree there are some newer champs with bland kits, how can you ignore champs like riven, orianna, and lulu who have very distintive playstyles/abilities and are quite unique amongst all MOBAs? At least give Riot credit for champs done well in addition to criticism for champs done poorly. There is no need to generalize every criticism into an absolute. | ||
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TheKefka
Croatia11752 Posts
On April 19 2012 06:51 Two_DoWn wrote: There is other shit too. Like what about fiora screams "dualist?" I mean, her e is a good start, but it should block everything. Keep q and r, but change w. Make it so that you and an enemy can only damage eachother. Or that you can each only see eachother. Or you each do bonus damage to eachother. Or something to encourage that 1 on 1 combat feel. Sounds like Jax and poppy put together.BALANCED! jk,but seriously there are so many "bland" champions imo I would love if they did more of this kinda stuff. On April 19 2012 06:24 Dandel Ion wrote: Just pull a Lux and give an otherwise bland champ a LAZOR. Instant awesomeness. Well they gave Viktor a lazor and buffed him like every patch and he is still a boring useless piece of russian technology. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On April 19 2012 06:59 petered wrote: That being said, here are a couple thoughts that I had about stuff I read earlier that I am not going to look up to quote directly: - I am fairly confident the point of champ spotlights is NOT to shoehorn a champion into a certain role, but to give new players a baseline idea of how to make use of the kit. Riot is extremely noob oriented so they do a lot of stuff that isn't meant for people who frequent this forum. This doesn't mean Riot always makes role specific champs (naut is not necessarily a jungler or top or support, for example). I'm fairly certain Riot intended Nautilus as a tank, and it's fairly hard to argue otherwise. On April 19 2012 06:59 petered wrote: - While I certainly agree there are some newer champs with bland kits, how can you ignore champs like riven, orianna, and lulu who have very distintive playstyles/abilities and are quite unique amongst all MOBAs? At least give Riot credit for champs done well in addition to criticism for champs done poorly. There is no need to generalize every criticism into an absolute. There was 3 months between Ori and Riven, and 6 months between Riven and Lulu. Riot could be releasing new content at a half or a 3rd the rate that we get now, and we'd still see the great champions. Just less of the random crap in between too. Hell we'd probably see MORE good champions if they released stuff half as often as they do now, seeing as they'd have more time to iron out the half-baked ideas. Though I stand by my idea that the best business model for Riot would be to stop champ releases for 3-4 months, really reflect and re-evaluate the game, and then give us a huge content overhaul with 5-10 champions at the end of that period. This week-by-week kneejerk reaction to the way the game plays isn't accomplishing anything because the rate at which changes are being made is faster than the rate people can respond to them. | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On April 19 2012 07:00 TheKefka wrote: Sounds like Jax and poppy put together.BALANCED! jk,but seriously there are so many "bland" champions imo I would love if they did more of this kinda stuff. Well they gave Viktor a lazor and buffed him like every patch and he is still a boring useless piece of russian technology. I just died a little inside... | ||
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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On April 19 2012 07:00 TheKefka wrote: Sounds like Jax and poppy put together.BALANCED! jk,but seriously there are so many "bland" champions imo I would love if they did more of this kinda stuff. Well they gave Viktor a lazor and buffed him like every patch and he is still a boring useless piece of russian technology. It's not a HUGE Laser tho. Also, his skills are actually cool. Dunno why he's never played. But now people see him in "shit zone", and don't play him anymore. | ||
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daemir
Finland8662 Posts
Lulu was really good addition, fun champ. More of that please. If it means slowing down the champ release rate, I'd have zero problems with that, feel like it's far too rapid at the moment anyway. Hecarim looks (from streams) to be rather in the meh category as well. | ||
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
On April 19 2012 06:59 petered wrote: I debated for a while how to respond to a lot of the dumb things stated about the champion design in the last few pages but in the end it will be a fairly pointless argument, and Pargnage already summed up my thoughts pretty well. That being said, here are a couple thoughts that I had about stuff I read earlier that I am not going to look up to quote directly: - I am fairly confident the point of champ spotlights is NOT to shoehorn a champion into a certain role, but to give new players a baseline idea of how to make use of the kit. Riot is extremely noob oriented so they do a lot of stuff that isn't meant for people who frequent this forum. This doesn't mean Riot always makes role specific champs (naut is not necessarily a jungler or top or support, for example). - Someone grouped ahri, brand, and ziggs as ap nukers with 4 damaging abilities. Ok seriously? Go play all three champsions. It feels almost nothing alike. also ahri and ziggs both have a non damage centric skill (ahri's charm and ziggs jump explosion thing). In fact, having 4 pure damage non steroid abilities IS pretty distinctive. They get put in a similar role but someone who likes ahri won't necessarily like ziggs and vice versa. I don't see how this is bad design or slapping kits together based on a role - While I certainly agree there are some newer champs with bland kits, how can you ignore champs like riven, orianna, and lulu who have very distintive playstyles/abilities and are quite unique amongst all MOBAs? At least give Riot credit for champs done well in addition to criticism for champs done poorly. There is no need to generalize every criticism into an absolute. 4 damage abilities, as it has been implemented by Riot, is a problem because they have proven to be incredibly binary from a balance standpoint. Sure, they all feel different. But it does not change the fact that this limitation makes them very hard to balance, and for no reason. Ziggs and Ahri dont need to damage with their utility spells. The only reason that they DO is because Riot has it in their heads that ap nukers need to have TONS AND TONS of damage from EVERYWHERE. Which makes it VERY hard to put them in the right place because how do you decide where their power comes from if it comes from everywhere. Riven is terrible design. Absolutely horrid. Lulu is overcooked from a kit standpoint, especially with her q. They tried to make her the perfect support, only riot has proven, yet again, that they dont actually know how support works. | ||
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JackDino
Gabon6219 Posts
On April 19 2012 07:05 Dandel Ion wrote: It's not a HUGE Laser tho. Also, his skills are actually cool. Dunno why he's never played. But now people see him in "shit zone", and don't play him anymore. It's because they play like 1 game and decide he's shit and almost no one picks him up. He's also harder to play than most aps imo. | ||
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arb
Noobville17921 Posts
On April 19 2012 07:10 Two_DoWn wrote: 4 damage abilities, as it has been implemented by Riot, is a problem because they have proven to be incredibly binary from a balance standpoint. Sure, they all feel different. But it does not change the fact that this limitation makes them very hard to balance, and for no reason. Ziggs and Ahri dont need to damage with their utility spells. The only reason that they DO is because Riot has it in their heads that ap nukers need to have TONS AND TONS of damage from EVERYWHERE. Which makes it VERY hard to put them in the right place because how do you decide where their power comes from if it comes from everywhere. Riven is terrible design. Absolutely horrid. Lulu is overcooked from a kit standpoint, especially with her q. They tried to make her the perfect support, only riot has proven, yet again, that they dont actually know how support works. Whats terrible about rivens design? | ||
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