EPT[Patch 1.0.0.138: Hecarim] General Discussion - Page 12
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FakeSteve[TPR]
Valhalla18444 Posts
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Mystogun
United States392 Posts
On April 19 2012 04:27 MooMooMugi wrote: All my masteries pages were reset and I have to redo them... really....Mine were very champion specific *sigh Do many people use all 10 mastery pages? I always do mine during champion select, and I only utilize the one page when I realized that 10 wasn't enough for the different set-ups that I wanted. Once I started doing them before every game, I got quick enough to do it in less than 10 seconds. It also helps me because I think about what I want in my masteries every time I put them in, which imo helps me when I play the game. That's probably just me though. | ||
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Chiharu Harukaze
12112 Posts
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Doctorbeat
Netherlands13241 Posts
On April 19 2012 04:33 Mystogun wrote: Do many people use all 10 mastery pages? I always do mine during champion select, and I only utilize the one page when I realized that 10 wasn't enough for the different set-ups that I wanted. Once I started doing them before every game, I got quick enough to do it in less than 10 seconds. It also helps me because I think about what I want in my masteries every time I put them in, which imo helps me when I play the game. That's probably just me though. I have a few standard ones that I modify when I need to. Like a 21/0/9 page for AP, a 21/9/0 page for manaless junglers or laners, a 21/0/9 page for ad carries, etc. | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
On April 19 2012 04:22 gtrsrs wrote: my (correct) theory is that they're just churning out replica champs at this point so they can get to 100 and stop lol. hecarim is uninspired, a weak copy of spiritbreaker that just didn't really pan out. so they gave him some watered-down copy skills and called it a day. even his skins are kinda meh and similar. I think its more an issue that the designers have gotten sort of, I dunno, "lost" I guess would be the best word to describe it. Like you look at releases since Irelia (the start of everything) and champs are either a) stupidly good at everything or b) so bad at one thing that it destroys them. It even hits their remakes: just look at Kayle and Ryze. I think the main reason for this is the kits that they are slapping together. In Riot's quest to make every champ seem stupidly exciting and incredibly awesome, they focus on throwing 4 of the most powerful (usually) or most interesting (less common) skills together with some sort of passive that is either too good to be true or used to be too good to be true before they nerfed it: all without actually looking at the kit to decide what they need: or going off role for a skill that might fit better or add some flair to a character. The best example of this is the lack of a true "throwaway" skill. I use quotes because most of the time it really isnt the case. For example, Hawkshot plays a significant role in making ashe who she is. Same with Sion's E when you go ap (or sheild when you go ad). Hell, even Annie's moleten shield is incredibly useful in certain situations. Instead we know exctly what we are going to get with every champion release. A nuker is gonna have 4 damage spells, maybe with some utility (brand, ahri, ziggs). An ad carry is gonna have some aoe damage, a weak slow, and some type of steroid (graves, mf, koggles, new dude)/ A tanky dps will have some type of sheild, usually a gap closer, and then basically whatever ult and flavor spell they want to add (usually some type of weak aoe or disable). Ect. In Riot's quest to never have an off role spell on a champion, we end up with champs that all tend to blend together. We also lose out on a lot of creativity. I mean, something like Anivia wall would never show up today because it doesnt "fit"on a caster. As a result, we end up with champs that all have incredibly good kits on paper because they just copy the formula that they know will work in its most basic form. It then just comes down to "did Riot get scared and nerf the kit before release?" Sometimes it is yes (Fiora, Sej) sometimes it is no (Lulu, Ziggs) | ||
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
On April 19 2012 04:33 Mystogun wrote: Do many people use all 10 mastery pages? I always do mine during champion select, and I only utilize the one page when I realized that 10 wasn't enough for the different set-ups that I wanted. Once I started doing them before every game, I got quick enough to do it in less than 10 seconds. It also helps me because I think about what I want in my masteries every time I put them in, which imo helps me when I play the game. That's probably just me though. I use all ten. It's nice to not have to rush when my friends waffle on what they want to do until the last second. | ||
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lurked
Canada918 Posts
On April 19 2012 04:33 JackDino wrote: Zileans spells all have a cooldown, cdr reduces this cooldown. If you W, you dont reduce the base cooldown, you just lower the cooldown while it's already counting down. Cdr is taken into account as soon as the spell is cast, not when it's on cooldown and counting down. That's exactly how I understand it... Thx. But in my mind, as it's a skill you use, it isn't a step in the casting, so CDR is still the last step... I guess it was only a miscommunication/misunderstanding on my part. | ||
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spinesheath
Germany8679 Posts
DESIGN <-> LORE BALANCE <-> GAMEPLAY (this also applies for remakes: actually REMAKE the kit. Forget everything the old kit was. Stick to the old lore though.) | ||
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wussleeQ
United States3130 Posts
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
On April 19 2012 04:51 spinesheath wrote: Riot really needs to start ignoring any sorts of "what will this champ do in the game" approaches. They should just develop an interesting kit and then just see where the champ fits (after release!). And by intersting kit, I mean: Fits the character, especially the lore. Like you mentioned, T_D, Anivia: A champ based on freezing stuff. Man wouldn't it be cool to freeze the vapor in the air to create a wall? DESIGN <-> LORE BALANCE <-> GAMEPLAY I think the other important thing to notice is that having 4 spells that all directly tie in to what the character is supposed to be/do make ballancing incredibly binary. For example, Brand has 4 damage skills, and a damage passive. How do you decide which is the one that is the biggest problem? As we have seen, the only real approach they can take is to nerf EVERYTHING. Compare that to Annie: you know EXACTLY what her issue is at any given time because she has 1 less offensive skill, and each skill she has is keyed to a different purpose. Is brand's harassment skill his w or his e? Is his main nuke his w or his r? Hell, is his main DAMAGE his passive? And then the follow up: does having a "throwaway" off kit skill make her worse at her job? Or less fun to play? Or less interesting? I think the answer is a very clear NO (especially given that she is closer to competitive viability than brand). | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On April 19 2012 04:51 spinesheath wrote: Riot really needs to start ignoring any sorts of "what will this champ do in the game" approaches. They should just develop an interesting kit and then just see where the champ fits (after release!). And by intersting kit, I mean: Fits the character, especially the lore. Like you mentioned, T_D, Anivia: A champ based on freezing stuff. Man wouldn't it be cool to freeze the vapor in the air to create a wall? DESIGN <-> LORE BALANCE <-> GAMEPLAY (this also applies for remakes: actually REMAKE the kit. Forget everything the old kit was. Stick to the old lore though.) Pretty much this. I've said this before, but I feel Riot's best champion designs were in the first few months after release (from around Udyr, up to maybe Olaf). I feel like in this period we really got good champion *concepts* and designers really got great designs from this (e.g. Pantheon--you don't look at Panth as a generic bruiser with a gap closer, farm skill, etc.--you look at Panth as a freaking Spartan who mandrops down from the sky and beats the shit out of people). You can't predict whether your playerbase is going to play your champ kit the way you intend it to be played (see: Karma as an AP solo rather than a support) anyway, so trying too hard to build from a balance standpoint is unproductive. | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
On April 19 2012 04:51 spinesheath wrote: Riot really needs to start ignoring any sorts of "what will this champ do in the game" approaches. They should just develop an interesting kit and then just see where the champ fits (after release!). And by intersting kit, I mean: Fits the character, especially the lore. Like you mentioned, T_D, Anivia: A champ based on freezing stuff. Man wouldn't it be cool to freeze the vapor in the air to create a wall? DESIGN <-> LORE BALANCE <-> GAMEPLAY (this also applies for remakes: actually REMAKE the kit. Forget everything the old kit was. Stick to the old lore though.) One thing I don't understand are these hero spotlights. A designer should not be designing something and then releasing it with the "way to play it" as well. You design something then give it to your base and THEY figure out how to play it in ways you never really conceived. It just seems like really poor design from riot. It should be impossible for a developer to ever release something like these hero spotlights. | ||
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Glaceau
Wales333 Posts
On April 19 2012 05:00 wussleeQ wrote: client seems so glitchy wtf glad im not the only one. its like the game just went back in time 5 years, everything feels so raw and disgusting. cant tell when anything is confirmed or whatever | ||
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
On April 19 2012 05:05 Numy wrote: One thing I don't understand are these hero spotlights. A designer should not be designing something and then releasing it with the "way to play it" as well. You design something then give it to your base and THEY figure out how to play it in ways you never really conceived. It just seems like really poor design from riot. It should be impossible for a developer to ever release something like these hero spotlights. Well, given Phreak's penchant for making a horrible mess of spotlights, I would actually give them a pass on that front. | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
On April 19 2012 05:07 Two_DoWn wrote: Well, given Phreak's penchant for making a horrible mess of spotlights, I would actually give them a pass on that front. I'm not really talking about how accurate they are, merely the concept behind having such a thing. They looking at their game in the now and designing stuff specifically for that instead of allowing room for development to happen. Who knows what LoL might look like in a years time compared to now. You can't limit design in such a way as they are. | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
the kit could be a lot of fun -high damage poke q -zone/slow e - disruption w I've always since day 1 thought this is the way Ziggs should work, but people just used w and e to combo and riot nerfed it in all the wrong ways (reduce the slow really??) | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
Consider Goblin Shredder, one of the newest 4 heroes to get added to DotA. The first thing to notice looking at his kit is that there's not some clear role he's supposed to have. He's clearly not a carry because he has no real lategame damage, and his ultimate disables his autoattack. He's not a support because his mana usage gets pretty steep after 6 and he needs items to keep up his spell usage in prolonged engagements. But otherwise he's got some spell damage, some utility, and some tankiness, so he's some sort of weird tanky semicarry caster-ish thing? That said, he still has a theme. He's a goblin in a mechano-suit that cuts down trees. All of his skills interact with trees in some way. He's got 1-2 obvious skill interactions, and a couple less obvious ones. Overall his interactions are fleshed out, but not mapped out (the way skill interactions on LoL heroes pretty clearly are, when you see Phreak going over how every skill works with every other skill in the spotlights). So he's a little kooky. He doesn't have a clear role, or clearly defined ways in which you're "supposed" to use your skills. But that's part of the fun. When you don't dictate someone's combos or how their spells are all supposed to be used, you end up leaving room for some pretty weird stuff to happen (as it turns out, hooking around the map like you're fucking Spiderman is one of the funnest and most hilarious things I've seen in a MOBA in quite a while). | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
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Parnage
United States7414 Posts
Stop over reacting -_-; | ||
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