[Patch 1.0.0.138: Hecarim] General Discussion - Page 106

On April 27 2012 01:37 Sabin010 wrote:

nvm I just read the updated notes, and they're buffing the early game and nerfing the later game, with no changes in his mana costs. forgive my ignorance.

On April 27 2012 01:38 wei2coolman wrote:
Meh, I don't like how riot is making mid game items into lategame items, What they need to do is make mid game items super fucking cost effective so there's a "risk" factor, in which players are willing to risk lategame power for midgame power.

On April 27 2012 01:49 Glaceau wrote:
unfortunately this game doesnt actually work like that, especially in the pro scene. The teams that are the best are the ones that apply constant and early pressure because LoL is a game of snowballing. If mid game items were vastly stronger then their lategame counterparts everyone would buy them since you want to be as powerful as possible as soon as possible to take dragons and eventually barons. if you have more gold then your opponents, item choices rarely matter.

On April 27 2012 02:08 Slayer91 wrote:
Yeah when's the last time people ever got item capped consistently except because they built too many dorans blades?

On April 27 2012 02:00 TheYango wrote:

DotA actually takes the opposite design paradigm with items. Lower-tier items are more cost-effective than their later-tiered counterparts. This creates a resource tradeoff between gold-efficiency and slot-efficiency of items, not unlike the tradeoff between economy and army strength in Starcraft. It also creates similar strategic issues of timing. Having a keener understanding of timing was one of the reasons why Chinese DotA teams were able to surpass their western counterparts in 2010.

A player opting for lower-tier gold-efficient items caps out his item slots quickly. This means that there is a timing window when he's on 6 items, but has not sold and replaced one of his lower-tier items, and is therefore capped out on power. For the next 3k-4k gold, his itemized gold value flatlines, which allows the other team to catch up on power, and seek fights on even terms before one of those items gets replaced. Alternatively, a player who opts to use a gold advantage and turn it into larger items has superior slot-efficiency, but due to the poorer gold-efficiency of the items, the opponent again has a timing window in which they can go all-in on lower-tier items that have superior fighting power immediately.

Even if they don't need to be better than finished lategame items, they need to at least feel better than the COMPONENTS for those items. As it stands, Brutalizer doesn't really even feel more effective than BF Sword. Haunting Guise doesn't feel better than NLR. Spirit Visage doesn't feel better than Glacial Shroud.

On April 27 2012 02:49 TheYango wrote:
On a tangentially related issue, does anyone else feel that there should be a support item tailored to the sub-1000 gold range?

Given a support's gold intake, a 2k gold aura item is effectively equivalent to a "big" item for supports. Supports effectively have no equivalent to the 1500-2k gold midgame items, so you can't really match up that well with your team if they choose to play toward that route. Your best itemization options below 1k gold are pretty much just Doran's, Kindlegem, and gp10s.

On April 27 2012 03:11 wei2coolman wrote:
What they need to do is make midgame items that are strong midgame, but lose its relevance in lategame (HARD), not like wit's end or wriggles, which is good in mid game and is relevant all the way into lategame.

So something like a haunting guize, or executioner call, except just make them cheaper.

On April 27 2012 03:08 cascades wrote:
What are you proposing for this theoretical support item? Just sub 1k is called 2 dorans. Sub .5k is called doran. You can't have items even more efficient than dorans. (Giving doran different stats should as cdr could be explored though) Aura items could be reduced to 1.5k to fill the gap though, making them even more no brainers.

On April 27 2012 02:49 TheYango wrote:
On a tangentially related issue, does anyone else feel that there should be a support item tailored to the sub-1000 gold range?

Given a support's gold intake, a 2k gold aura item is effectively equivalent to a "big" item for supports. Supports effectively have no equivalent to the 1500-2k gold midgame items, so you can't really match up that well with your team if they choose to play toward that route. Your best itemization options below 1k gold are pretty much just Doran's, Kindlegem, and gp10s.

On April 27 2012 03:16 wei2coolman wrote:

hmm, maybe mini aura- items? but the thing is, if you make any new aura items, that are sub 2k, the stats they offer would have to be pretty small, possibly negligible.

On April 27 2012 02:49 TheYango wrote:
On a tangentially related issue, does anyone else feel that there should be a support item tailored to the sub-1000 gold range?

Given a support's gold intake, a 2k gold aura item is effectively equivalent to a "big" item for supports. Supports effectively have no equivalent to the 1500-2k gold midgame items, so you can't really match up that well with your team if they choose to play toward that route. Your best itemization options below 1k gold are pretty much just Doran's, Kindlegem, and gp10s.