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Remember guys, this is the general discussion thread. Keep whine/QQ posts in the appropriate QQ memorial thread! Thanks! |
On April 11 2012 05:06 jcarlsoniv wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2012 05:00 Eiii wrote:
I don't see many viktors around, but every time I do he completely destroys.
I've been meaning to learn AP mid a bit more, maybe he'd be a good first character to focus on. Don't start with learning Viktor. He has some nuances that can really only be figured out through playing, but he's tough to be successful with. I'd start with something like Morg or Kennen- pretty hard to lose lane, press R to win. So when I play fizz, I normally go 2dring, sheen, dcap. I've tried wota, but didn't find it very good on him. Have people been successful with any sustain on him?
you can get fed as fuck and wota still feels like it does nothing. best way to sustain on Fizz is hybrid offence/defence items like Abysal and smart use of E. Other very good but underrated items for Fizz are GA the long animation almost garuntees E comes off cd so you will live, and I actually really like Frozen heart too, CDR + mana = more combos, take less damage, makes you a lot more useful in teamfights, and allows for offencive E in the right situations.
Honestly the fact of the matter is with Litchbane, Dcap, and the pen from runes/abyssal/boots you can still one shot anyone not sporting a warmogs with ult, and do good enough AoE dmg using E offencively in teamfights for your team to clean up, before they can kill you with all the def in my build.
I accept arguments for Rylai's over the GA, but personally I like how Fizz with GA pretty much always lives.
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Naut is a good pick if your team already has some high damage carries to protect. He has pretty much 0 damage by himself, even with AP items.
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On April 11 2012 05:37 Requizen wrote:
Naut is a good pick if your team already has some high damage carries to protect. He has pretty much 0 damage by himself, even with AP items.
Could say the same about maokai, and it's not really true. Not sure if you've actually played tanks but they all do lots of damage to squishy champs if you sit on them and you're too tanky to kill realistically in a teamfight.
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On April 11 2012 05:36 Slusher wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2012 05:06 jcarlsoniv wrote:On April 11 2012 05:00 Eiii wrote:
I don't see many viktors around, but every time I do he completely destroys.
I've been meaning to learn AP mid a bit more, maybe he'd be a good first character to focus on. Don't start with learning Viktor. He has some nuances that can really only be figured out through playing, but he's tough to be successful with. I'd start with something like Morg or Kennen- pretty hard to lose lane, press R to win. So when I play fizz, I normally go 2dring, sheen, dcap. I've tried wota, but didn't find it very good on him. Have people been successful with any sustain on him? you can get fed as fuck and wota still feels like it does nothing. best way to sustain on Fizz is hybrid offence/defence items like Abysal and smart use of E.
Or you can be alpha male, and play bruiser fizz w/ wriggles.
bruiser AD fizz > ap fizz.
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Even if the only person you deal enough damage to is the enemy support (say, if the enemy AD has craptons of lifesteal and resists at certain point in the game), then that's good enough as a disruptive tank because after your spells are in cooldown there's at least 1 person you can chase around and force some aggression on yourself.
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On April 11 2012 05:37 Requizen wrote:
Naut is a good pick if your team already has some high damage carries to protect. He has pretty much 0 damage by himself, even with AP items.
That's not true at all. He trucks people on 0-2 offensive items when I play him. His base damage numbers are pretty nutty.
Also, with all the Maokai comparisons... well, Maokai is easier to land stuff with, but he's just 2 forms of CC vs. Naut's 4 and I honestly also think Naut hits harder too. Unless Maokai's ult is completely game altering in the game at hand, I think I'd always rather have Naut.
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On April 11 2012 05:33 wei2coolman wrote:
It's just depressing that we don't see a big enough variety of champions in competitive play.
Nerfs. Premature nerfs.
Thats what happens.
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On April 11 2012 05:43 Juicyfruit wrote:
Even if the only person you deal enough damage to is the enemy support (say, if the enemy AD has craptons of lifesteal and resists at certain point in the game), then that's good enough as a disruptive tank because after your spells are in cooldown you can at least chase 1 person around.
Super lategame when the ad has resists and lifesteal you're using your Cc on bruisers who get 2 shotted and you dont need to worry about their carries when you're tankier than their tanks. Early and midgame, ad carries are squishy and hell, and most ap carries.
You should basically never cast spells on support because it's a waste of time they're waiting for cds anyway.
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On April 11 2012 05:38 Slayer91 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2012 05:37 Requizen wrote:
Naut is a good pick if your team already has some high damage carries to protect. He has pretty much 0 damage by himself, even with AP items. Could say the same about maokai, and it's not really true. Not sure if you've actually played tanks but they all do lots of damage to squishy champs if you sit on them and you're too tanky to kill realistically in a teamfight.
Eh, maybe it's just me then. I never feel tanky enough coming out of the jungle, I still get trucked 100-0 by a well placed combo/ranged AD who got their farm up. With Skarner, I feel comfortable going into lane and 1v1'ing anything as long as I have some tanky items and a Sheen. With Naut, even with Mercs/HoG/something else, I don't feel like I have enough of a damage/tanky ratio to make any real plays solo.
But I'm probably just bad.
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Id actually argue that Naut and Mao are exactly who you DONT want to pick when you have to protect people. Both excel at rooting people who are out of position when your team is being aggressive. But they are both much weaker when you have to play defensively.
I personally feel that if you have to protect/peel for people it is much better to pick high threat tanky dps who draw threat on their own because of their ability to completely kill a team if left alone.
But if you run 4 squishies and Naut, sure he can lock one person down, but the rest are gonna run right by you.
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On April 11 2012 05:50 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2012 05:38 Slayer91 wrote:On April 11 2012 05:37 Requizen wrote:
Naut is a good pick if your team already has some high damage carries to protect. He has pretty much 0 damage by himself, even with AP items. Could say the same about maokai, and it's not really true. Not sure if you've actually played tanks but they all do lots of damage to squishy champs if you sit on them and you're too tanky to kill realistically in a teamfight. Eh, maybe it's just me then. I never feel tanky enough coming out of the jungle, I still get trucked 100-0 by a well placed combo/ranged AD who got their farm up. With Skarner, I feel comfortable going into lane and 1v1'ing anything as long as I have some tanky items and a Sheen. With Naut, even with Mercs/HoG/something else, I don't feel like I have enough of a damage/tanky ratio to make any real plays solo. But I'm probably just bad.
That's because you don't make solo plays. You are loaded with cc, so you create an opportunity for your team to unload on them.
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Naut + randuins sounds like a very effective peel for your AD, especially if your AD is good at kiting. That kind of slow should be more than enough for your AD carry to kite everyone to death.
EDIT: Anyone else notice, full tanks seem to fallen out of favor for bruisers?
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On April 11 2012 05:51 Two_DoWn wrote:
Id actually argue that Naut and Mao are exactly who you DONT want to pick when you have to protect people. Both excel at rooting people who are out of position when your team is being aggressive. But they are both much weaker when you have to play defensively.
I personally feel that if you have to protect/peel for people it is much better to pick high threat tanky dps who draw threat on their own because of their ability to completely kill a team if left alone.
But if you run 4 squishies and Naut, sure he can lock one person down, but the rest are gonna run right by you.
erm... maokai and naut are like peer-none the best peelers. naut's explosion slow alone is one of the best peeling abilities in the game
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Question: If I'm whining about a stolen penta is that QQ or bragging?
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United States47024 Posts
On April 11 2012 05:53 wei2coolman wrote:
EDIT: Anyone else notice, full tanks seem to fallen out of favor for bruisers?
Please don't start this discussion again.
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On April 11 2012 05:55 seRapH wrote:
Question: If I'm whining about a stolen penta is that QQ or bragging?
Both, post it in both threads.
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On April 11 2012 05:51 Two_DoWn wrote:
Id actually argue that Naut and Mao are exactly who you DONT want to pick when you have to protect people. Both excel at rooting people who are out of position when your team is being aggressive. But they are both much weaker when you have to play defensively.
I personally feel that if you have to protect/peel for people it is much better to pick high threat tanky dps who draw threat on their own because of their ability to completely kill a team if left alone.
But if you run 4 squishies and Naut, sure he can lock one person down, but the rest are gonna run right by you.
The point is you base your teamfights around CCing someone letting carries DPS safely and running back if they try to engage once your damage is neglible. If their bruisers dive in you go for their squishies and you're tankier than their bruisers and if they don't they take free damage from your Q + passive + run the fuck away combo.
It's a pretty strong way to play and you need dedicated initiation to play against it. It's the main reason melee "carries" don't work in competitive play.
And if anything full tanks are just as in fashion as before it's just more people get farmed on champions and suddenly they get defined as bruisers.
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On April 11 2012 05:53 wei2coolman wrote:
Naut + randuins sounds like a very effective peel for your AD, especially if your AD is good at kiting. That kind of slow should be more than enough for your AD carry to kite everyone to death.
EDIT: Anyone else notice, full tanks seem to fallen out of favor for bruisers?
that is a disaster waiting to happen
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Good thing riot patches this game every other fucking week because we would still be talking about gp10s to kill time.
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On April 11 2012 06:00 TheKefka wrote:
Good thing riot patches this game every other fucking week because we would still be talking about gp10s to kill time.
What about this:
Hey guys, I want to make a rune page for my AD carry. Should I get armour penetration or flat AD reds?
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EPT
