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Remember guys, this is the general discussion thread. Keep whine/QQ posts in the appropriate QQ memorial thread! Thanks! |
On April 10 2012 21:19 Doctorbeat wrote:
Just played a game against a Yorick top lane. How is that champion in the game as he is? I mean, they nerfed Eve into oblivion because she was deemed unfun, yet Yorick gets to be the most unfun character in the game.
I suppose this belongs in the QQ thread, but it's still a legitimate worry imo.
Oh and are there any champions that can actually win a lane against yorick? I played bruiser nid and lost pretty hard. What do you rune against him, armor/mr/hp?
Trundle pretty good, Mumu pretty good.
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On April 10 2012 21:19 Doctorbeat wrote:
Just played a game against a Yorick top lane. How is that champion in the game as he is? I mean, they nerfed Eve into oblivion because she was deemed unfun, yet Yorick gets to be the most unfun character in the game.
I suppose this belongs in the QQ thread, but it's still a legitimate worry imo.
Oh and are there any champions that can actually win a lane against yorick? I played bruiser nid and lost pretty hard. What do you rune against him, armor/mr/hp?
Um nidalee beats yorick pretty easily, you outpush him hard and his ghouls cannot ever catch you after 6
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On April 10 2012 20:51 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2012 20:24 ihasaKAROT wrote:
Also the Invoker on dota used to have a tooltip to the game: "selecting this champion might make the game load alot longer"
As soon as the game started with an invoker, 7 people instantly discceds Invoker doesn't have any simple, basic spells that just get the job done. They all basically are very situational and have long cooldowns. Yes, you could say they are all kind of like ultimates, but either way he doesn't really have any simple workhorse spells that he can just spam for instant effectiveness. His cooldowns are too long for that. Forge Spirits is what comes the closest but LoL has no option for that really
Tornado, Deafening Blast, and Meteor are as workhorse as they come.
People were saying Xin randomly wrecks Yorick a while ago.
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The main key with a lol invoker would just be having to make sure it was CLEAR what you were on for primary secondary and what the effect was going to be of that spell. The problem with playing against dota invoker is that you get slammed by something and have absolutely no clue what it was. And it happens 9 times over.
A lol version would have to be very explicit in what was saved and about to be cast. This might actually be made easier by the fact that we only use qwer: hit the qwe combo, r to save. From there some sort of image is over invokers head: a ring with the primary filled in by the secondary spell. From there another r launches the spell, setting the primary trait to CD with like a 1 second global cd on R. Something like that.
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On April 10 2012 21:38 EmeraldSparks wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2012 20:51 Shikyo wrote:On April 10 2012 20:24 ihasaKAROT wrote:
Also the Invoker on dota used to have a tooltip to the game: "selecting this champion might make the game load alot longer"
As soon as the game started with an invoker, 7 people instantly discceds Invoker doesn't have any simple, basic spells that just get the job done. They all basically are very situational and have long cooldowns. Yes, you could say they are all kind of like ultimates, but either way he doesn't really have any simple workhorse spells that he can just spam for instant effectiveness. His cooldowns are too long for that. Forge Spirits is what comes the closest but LoL has no option for that really Tornado, Deafening Blast, and Meteor are as workhorse as they come. People were saying Xin randomly wrecks Yorick a while ago.
I don't consider spells that have 30-50 second cooldowns as workhorse spells. If in LoL those 3 were someone's basic skills he'd get clubbed to death in between the cooldowns
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T_D's Jungle tips for baddies (and lazy people)
Word of advice for anyone who wants to play a skillshot jungle like lee sin or mundo: just carry exaust. It makes your life so much easier.
I missed every cleaver for the first 15 minutes of the game and still went 3-0-4 because exaust makes killing things easy.
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On April 10 2012 22:05 Two_DoWn wrote:
T_D's Jungle tips for baddies (and lazy people)
Word of advice for anyone who wants to play a skillshot jungle like lee sin or mundo: just carry exaust. It makes your life so much easier.
I missed every cleaver for the first 15 minutes of the game and still went 3-0-4 because exaust makes killing things easy.
T_D trying to start a whole new meta i see.
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On April 10 2012 22:11 BlackPaladin wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2012 22:05 Two_DoWn wrote:
T_D's Jungle tips for baddies (and lazy people)
Word of advice for anyone who wants to play a skillshot jungle like lee sin or mundo: just carry exaust. It makes your life so much easier.
I missed every cleaver for the first 15 minutes of the game and still went 3-0-4 because exaust makes killing things easy. T_D trying to start a whole new meta i see.
Yup, whole new meta. Never seen anyone else run exhaust smite on mundo/lee, especially not swagvicious.
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On April 10 2012 22:13 JackDino wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2012 22:11 BlackPaladin wrote:On April 10 2012 22:05 Two_DoWn wrote:
T_D's Jungle tips for baddies (and lazy people)
Word of advice for anyone who wants to play a skillshot jungle like lee sin or mundo: just carry exaust. It makes your life so much easier.
I missed every cleaver for the first 15 minutes of the game and still went 3-0-4 because exaust makes killing things easy. T_D trying to start a whole new meta i see. Yup, whole new meta. Never seen anyone else run exhaust smite on mundo/lee, especially not swagvicious.
But it IS a new meta when you do it because you are to lazy to actually hit skillshots.
I could make a whole video series: "how to get to 1800 without really trying."
It'd sell MILLIONS. Little tips like main morg, but dont even bother trying to hit qs. Just w every wave, get a ton of farm, then just press R. Easiest wins of your life. And I would have a whole list of champions to never play: Cass, Riven, ect.
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On April 10 2012 22:01 Two_DoWn wrote:
The main key with a lol invoker would just be having to make sure it was CLEAR what you were on for primary secondary and what the effect was going to be of that spell. The problem with playing against dota invoker is that you get slammed by something and have absolutely no clue what it was. And it happens 9 times over.
A lol version would have to be very explicit in what was saved and about to be cast. This might actually be made easier by the fact that we only use qwer: hit the qwe combo, r to save. From there some sort of image is over invokers head: a ring with the primary filled in by the secondary spell. From there another r launches the spell, setting the primary trait to CD with like a 1 second global cd on R. Something like that.
That would still leave needing to memorize combinations for no other reason than to have more buttons to press. Mixing effects is a fun concept, memorizing reciepes isn´t.
A "invoker" in LoL would be rather more like Sonas passive, modifying a spell in context with other used ablities in an intuitive fashion. Maybe like Leblancs ultimate but different ults instead of copys.
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On April 10 2012 22:30 Unentschieden wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2012 22:01 Two_DoWn wrote:
The main key with a lol invoker would just be having to make sure it was CLEAR what you were on for primary secondary and what the effect was going to be of that spell. The problem with playing against dota invoker is that you get slammed by something and have absolutely no clue what it was. And it happens 9 times over.
A lol version would have to be very explicit in what was saved and about to be cast. This might actually be made easier by the fact that we only use qwer: hit the qwe combo, r to save. From there some sort of image is over invokers head: a ring with the primary filled in by the secondary spell. From there another r launches the spell, setting the primary trait to CD with like a 1 second global cd on R. Something like that. That would still leave needing to memorize combinations for no other reason than to have more buttons to press. Mixing effects is a fun concept, memorizing reciepes isn´t. A "invoker" in LoL would be rather more like Sonas passive, modifying a spell in context with other used ablities in an intuitive fashion. Maybe like Leblancs ultimate but different ults instead of copys.
The reason would obviously be to have more spells, not "to have more buttons to press". And you memorize it in like 2 minutes, what's the problem? For instance it took me a single game and maybe 15min to memorize all dota invoker spells and I doubt LoL one would have 10
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United States2968 Posts
On April 10 2012 21:19 Doctorbeat wrote:
Just played a game against a Yorick top lane. How is that champion in the game as he is? I mean, they nerfed Eve into oblivion because she was deemed unfun, yet Yorick gets to be the most unfun character in the game.
I suppose this belongs in the QQ thread, but it's still a legitimate worry imo.
Oh and are there any champions that can actually win a lane against yorick? I played bruiser nid and lost pretty hard. What do you rune against him, armor/mr/hp?
I may have been playing bad Yoricks, and this was also when she was still pretty good once you survived her shit early game, but Irelia should be able to beat him still. As mentioned, she is terrible against pretty much everyone early, so the first few levels are all about letting him push and using W+Q to last hit at tower. When I grab my mercs and Wit's End, its usually over for him. Jump on him and start AA'ing him to death.
Haven't been able to muster the courage to play Irelia these days. She just makes me so sad now. =\
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On April 10 2012 22:15 Two_DoWn wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2012 22:13 JackDino wrote:On April 10 2012 22:11 BlackPaladin wrote:On April 10 2012 22:05 Two_DoWn wrote:
T_D's Jungle tips for baddies (and lazy people)
Word of advice for anyone who wants to play a skillshot jungle like lee sin or mundo: just carry exaust. It makes your life so much easier.
I missed every cleaver for the first 15 minutes of the game and still went 3-0-4 because exaust makes killing things easy. T_D trying to start a whole new meta i see. Yup, whole new meta. Never seen anyone else run exhaust smite on mundo/lee, especially not swagvicious. But it IS a new meta when you do it because you are to lazy to actually hit skillshots. I could make a whole video series: "how to get to 1800 without really trying." It'd sell MILLIONS. Little tips like main morg, but dont even bother trying to hit qs. Just w every wave, get a ton of farm, then just press R. Easiest wins of your life. And I would have a whole list of champions to never play: Cass, Riven, ect.
"How to reach 1800 without trying!" - written by a 1600 player.
I don't think Riven would be a champ to avoid. She's so faceroll in lower-mid elos
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Well, I was thinking along the lines of having each qwe be a primary type, while the secondary adjusted the bonus like someone else mentioned
For example, if E was like a fire and did a bolt, a e-e would be a super hurty bolt, and e-q would be a slowing bolt, and e-w would be a bolt that had a little dot or something. Or if q created a sheild, qq was a pure health sheild but smaller, q-w was a magic sheild that blocked more, but only magic, and qe was a physical damage block only.
On April 10 2012 22:37 jcarlsoniv wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2012 22:15 Two_DoWn wrote:On April 10 2012 22:13 JackDino wrote:On April 10 2012 22:11 BlackPaladin wrote:On April 10 2012 22:05 Two_DoWn wrote:
T_D's Jungle tips for baddies (and lazy people)
Word of advice for anyone who wants to play a skillshot jungle like lee sin or mundo: just carry exaust. It makes your life so much easier.
I missed every cleaver for the first 15 minutes of the game and still went 3-0-4 because exaust makes killing things easy. T_D trying to start a whole new meta i see. Yup, whole new meta. Never seen anyone else run exhaust smite on mundo/lee, especially not swagvicious. But it IS a new meta when you do it because you are to lazy to actually hit skillshots. I could make a whole video series: "how to get to 1800 without really trying." It'd sell MILLIONS. Little tips like main morg, but dont even bother trying to hit qs. Just w every wave, get a ton of farm, then just press R. Easiest wins of your life. And I would have a whole list of champions to never play: Cass, Riven, ect. "How to reach 1800 without trying!" - written by a 1600 player. I don't think Riven would be a champ to avoid. She's so faceroll in lower-mid elos
lol. Well, to be fair I did play like 15 straight games as an ad carry to see if I could get better at them.
I didnt.
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On April 10 2012 22:34 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2012 22:30 Unentschieden wrote:On April 10 2012 22:01 Two_DoWn wrote:
The main key with a lol invoker would just be having to make sure it was CLEAR what you were on for primary secondary and what the effect was going to be of that spell. The problem with playing against dota invoker is that you get slammed by something and have absolutely no clue what it was. And it happens 9 times over.
A lol version would have to be very explicit in what was saved and about to be cast. This might actually be made easier by the fact that we only use qwer: hit the qwe combo, r to save. From there some sort of image is over invokers head: a ring with the primary filled in by the secondary spell. From there another r launches the spell, setting the primary trait to CD with like a 1 second global cd on R. Something like that. That would still leave needing to memorize combinations for no other reason than to have more buttons to press. Mixing effects is a fun concept, memorizing reciepes isn´t. A "invoker" in LoL would be rather more like Sonas passive, modifying a spell in context with other used ablities in an intuitive fashion. Maybe like Leblancs ultimate but different ults instead of copys. The reason would obviously be to have more spells, not "to have more buttons to press". And you memorize it in like 2 minutes, what's the problem? For instance it took me a single game and maybe 15min to memorize all dota invoker spells and I doubt LoL one would have 10
You don´t need boatloads of buttons and an arcane selection mechanic to give a champion more abilities/effects, just look at Jarvan.
Also you being able to learn him effortlessly doesn´t mean that an overcomplicated champion wouldn´t have negative effects on the average playerbase. How many Invokers actually use the whole spellpool? How many of the players that play with and against him know his pool?
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On April 10 2012 22:42 Unentschieden wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2012 22:34 Shikyo wrote:On April 10 2012 22:30 Unentschieden wrote:On April 10 2012 22:01 Two_DoWn wrote:
The main key with a lol invoker would just be having to make sure it was CLEAR what you were on for primary secondary and what the effect was going to be of that spell. The problem with playing against dota invoker is that you get slammed by something and have absolutely no clue what it was. And it happens 9 times over.
A lol version would have to be very explicit in what was saved and about to be cast. This might actually be made easier by the fact that we only use qwer: hit the qwe combo, r to save. From there some sort of image is over invokers head: a ring with the primary filled in by the secondary spell. From there another r launches the spell, setting the primary trait to CD with like a 1 second global cd on R. Something like that. That would still leave needing to memorize combinations for no other reason than to have more buttons to press. Mixing effects is a fun concept, memorizing reciepes isn´t. A "invoker" in LoL would be rather more like Sonas passive, modifying a spell in context with other used ablities in an intuitive fashion. Maybe like Leblancs ultimate but different ults instead of copys. The reason would obviously be to have more spells, not "to have more buttons to press". And you memorize it in like 2 minutes, what's the problem? For instance it took me a single game and maybe 15min to memorize all dota invoker spells and I doubt LoL one would have 10 You don´t need boatloads of buttons and an arcane selection mechanic to give a champion more abilities/effects, just look at Jarvan. Also you being a genious doesn´t mean that an overcomplicated champion wouldn´t have negative effects on the average playerbase. How many Invokers actually use the whole spellpool? How many of the players that play with and against him know his pool?
Well, I dont think you can deliberatly try to create champs that are stupidly simple, or else we would end up with 93 versions of sion.
The highest skill/knowledge champ we have in the game currently is Leblanc. 99% of the people who play cannot come close to playing her to anywhere near her potential. Her combos need to be done in specific orders in order to maximize her damage, or her survivibility, or whatever.
The key with LB is that she has a default baddie combo: q-r. Any moron can do that and do 60% of leblancs damage. Its just to do the last 40% you need to put the time in and not suck.
So I think the key with an invoker type champ would just be to build it in that same way: make it really easy to do 60% of what he can do, but make the last 40% take skill and time. Which wouldnt be too hard if you did it with a primary/secondary system. There would only REALLY be 3 spells. It would just involve having to maximize the aftereffect that you want.
And before you say thats too complicated, look at viktor. The burden of knowledge on the opponent is STUPIDLY high when playing against him. Death agument is VERY different from power or gravity.
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On April 10 2012 22:42 Unentschieden wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2012 22:34 Shikyo wrote:On April 10 2012 22:30 Unentschieden wrote:On April 10 2012 22:01 Two_DoWn wrote:
The main key with a lol invoker would just be having to make sure it was CLEAR what you were on for primary secondary and what the effect was going to be of that spell. The problem with playing against dota invoker is that you get slammed by something and have absolutely no clue what it was. And it happens 9 times over.
A lol version would have to be very explicit in what was saved and about to be cast. This might actually be made easier by the fact that we only use qwer: hit the qwe combo, r to save. From there some sort of image is over invokers head: a ring with the primary filled in by the secondary spell. From there another r launches the spell, setting the primary trait to CD with like a 1 second global cd on R. Something like that. That would still leave needing to memorize combinations for no other reason than to have more buttons to press. Mixing effects is a fun concept, memorizing reciepes isn´t. A "invoker" in LoL would be rather more like Sonas passive, modifying a spell in context with other used ablities in an intuitive fashion. Maybe like Leblancs ultimate but different ults instead of copys. The reason would obviously be to have more spells, not "to have more buttons to press". And you memorize it in like 2 minutes, what's the problem? For instance it took me a single game and maybe 15min to memorize all dota invoker spells and I doubt LoL one would have 10 You don´t need boatloads of buttons and an arcane selection mechanic to give a champion more abilities/effects, just look at Jarvan. Also you being able to learn him effortlessly doesn´t mean that an overcomplicated champion wouldn´t have negative effects on the average playerbase. How many Invokers actually use the whole spellpool? How many of the players that play with and against him know his pool?
I don't see how one experimental hero could negatively influence the entire player base. The thing about invoker in Dota is not his spells per say. It's his amazing laning combined with his spells. LoL doesn't have the same interactions so I think you could make a similar concept look and feel different in LoL.
I mean in dota it's easy to play a decent invoker. The trick is playing a really good invoker. So I don't see why the same can't be made for LoL type invoker.
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Aside from how to implement an Invoker style champion wouldne you run the risk of him being OP by nature of his kit diversity. By having 9 spells that all do something different he gains so much utility he can do almost anything and adapt to almost any situation yet tone them all down to prevent him from being a jack of all strait and master of all into something that doesnt really do anything well.
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He balances out by the cooldowns of his spells and relative difficulty of achieving maximum potential. Also in Dota you get say push strats that use the fact he needs level in order to wreck him. I don't know if the same concept is possible in LoL?
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On April 10 2012 14:39 triplej wrote:
cosmetic changes I've noticed on the PBE
new UI is sexy
when you payback someone, it says SHUT DOWN in huge obnoxious letters, same with first blood
it tells you when your First Win bonus is available on your profile page
you can search for custom games now (there's a search box)
Oh yeah this is awesome
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EPT
