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Remember guys, this is the general discussion thread. Keep whine/QQ posts in the appropriate QQ memorial thread! Thanks! |
On April 09 2012 12:16 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2012 12:11 ManyCookies wrote:
Why would you get a champion just for a skin? Well ok, why would you not become proficient with a champion before buying the skin, so you don't sink ~8 bucks into a skin you'll never use? You highly overestimate the intelligence of some people in this community.
On behalf of Riot Marketing, I thank everyone who tells me they buys the Champion Bundle every two weeks.
On April 09 2012 12:14 Two_DoWn wrote:
So I've been thinking again (I know, I know, I really shouldnt do that anymore). BUT
Is there any reason that Urgot wouldnt work as a support? His damage scales with level moreso than actual items, he can execute his brush control using e-q while the ad carry farms, then utilize support items (shurelias, locket) to execute swaps late game.
Hm.... Right now in my sleep mood, I can't think of one. Wait. Just the no heals or hard CC until level 6. Hard to lane with I'd guess? Never tried so dunno but I wouldn't be happy with it. Also, if you swap into their team as a squishy support you get instagibbed. But you can do the whole sit at Baron pit and swap the idiot who facechecks thing.
But please don't make Support Urgot a thing. He's already obnoxious. Zzzz.
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I think it would depend on how much damage he can do early on. I have never done it so I just dont know. But heals or cc dont matter if the enemy laners are just living in fear of eating a q.
Twould be an interesting thing to try to say the least.
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i have a lot of awesome skins for chars that i dont play well.
Firstly, because they are awesome, secondly because they motivate me to play more champs.
i dont feel thats stupid at all.
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You would lose to a heal lane in the long run, but if you got an early first blood it could go well. The same as any kill lane.
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On April 09 2012 12:21 Chiharu Harukaze wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2012 12:16 Requizen wrote:On April 09 2012 12:11 ManyCookies wrote:
Why would you get a champion just for a skin? Well ok, why would you not become proficient with a champion before buying the skin, so you don't sink ~8 bucks into a skin you'll never use? You highly overestimate the intelligence of some people in this community. On behalf of Riot Marketing, I thank everyone who tells me they buys the Champion Bundle every two weeks. Show nested quote +On April 09 2012 12:14 Two_DoWn wrote:
So I've been thinking again (I know, I know, I really shouldnt do that anymore). BUT
Is there any reason that Urgot wouldnt work as a support? His damage scales with level moreso than actual items, he can execute his brush control using e-q while the ad carry farms, then utilize support items (shurelias, locket) to execute swaps late game. Hm.... Right now in my sleep mood, I can't think of one. Wait. Just the no heals or hard CC until level 6. Hard to lane with I'd guess? Never tried so dunno but I wouldn't be happy with it. Also, if you swap into their team as a squishy support you get instagibbed. But you can do the whole sit at Baron pit and swap the idiot who facechecks thing. But please don't make Support Urgot a thing. He's already obnoxious. Zzzz.
i don't think he would get instagibed until a while into the game because swap gives a lot of resists and supports build a lot of health. by level like 9 or so i think his damage would be almost ignorable and after that you have swap and a spamable short slow and damage debuff. to me it seems like any time you would want support urgot you would be better running support ashe blitz or gp.
the more i think about support ashe just outclasses support urgot in almost every way. you get the same chease high damage for the early levels by charging up the pasive crit and running ad runes, a much better slow, the free almost cv, and a initiation ult that won't get you killed late game.
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I guess it could work the same way Lux support works. He does have a decent amount of utility (Slow, Armour Reduction, Swap) and a lot of zoning potential.
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Support Urgot in a really physical heavy team should be fine. He has the ult, he has an armor shred and that Q damage will stay somewhat relevant whole game. Maybe you won't dent the frontline tank that much, but everyone else surely is gonna feel it, if you rune ARP.
Build zeke's to boost your phys team even more.
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support urgot is terrible. I've tried it a couple of times, and it only works in games where you could literally play anything and win regardless. Just because a champion has utility doesn't mean it should be built/played like a support.
edit: to expand a little bit on that, his kit is not conducive to one of the primary goals of a support champion, being to protect the AD. Urgot's best role is as a chaser/duelist, not a peeler. If you try to use your ult to peel, you typically end up causing problems instead of fixing them, unless you use some wonky positioning, which again, leads to issues when trying to play protect the carry. If you ignore the rest of the game, then sure there are tons of champs that can probably do well in the laning phase as a cheesy pseudo-support, but if you consider post-laning at all, then support urgot, like several other champions, falls flat on his face.
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yo just for clarification, putting someone bot lane and then denying them farm doesn't make them a support champ. there is no "support urgot" because urgot doesn't have any skills that are buffs/shields/heals/boosts/whatever for his teammates. stacking gp10s does not make a champ a support champ, and buying auras does not make a champ a support champ. placing champs that need farm in a no-farm position just makes them underfarmed versions of themselves.
the question you guys are ACTUALLY asking is "can urgot perform without farm in a cheesy kill lane as the second AD-carry" and the answer depends on your opponents. will urgot without farm ever be as good as soraka or taric or whomever without farm? come on, you know the answer to that...
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OK random question after my first Vayne game in a long time: Can you smart cast Condemn? I was spamming Shift-E on someone and Vayne wouldn't cast it OR move to get into range. I just sort of stutter stepped not doing anything until I manually casted it.
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On April 09 2012 13:40 arnath wrote:
OK random question after my first Vayne game in a long time: Can you smart cast Condemn? I was spamming Shift-E on someone and Vayne wouldn't cast it OR move to get into range. I just sort of stutter stepped not doing anything until I manually casted it.
ya i have noticed this too. you can smart cast it and i will go off fine if you just click once but if you spam it you just stutter step for some reason.
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On April 09 2012 13:44 jadoth wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2012 13:40 arnath wrote:
OK random question after my first Vayne game in a long time: Can you smart cast Condemn? I was spamming Shift-E on someone and Vayne wouldn't cast it OR move to get into range. I just sort of stutter stepped not doing anything until I manually casted it. ya i have noticed this too. you can smart cast it and i will go off fine if you just click once but if you spam it you just stutter step for some reason.
This is a bug right? Moonbear?
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that there that there there that there beowulf
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Is it patch-day today? I really want to play teemo again.
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TRM is gunna have a field day on solo queue.
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On April 09 2012 13:22 gtrsrs wrote:
yo just for clarification, putting someone bot lane and then denying them farm doesn't make them a support champ. there is no "support urgot" because urgot doesn't have any skills that are buffs/shields/heals/boosts/whatever for his teammates. stacking gp10s does not make a champ a support champ, and buying auras does not make a champ a support champ. placing champs that need farm in a no-farm position just makes them underfarmed versions of themselves.
the question you guys are ACTUALLY asking is "can urgot perform without farm in a cheesy kill lane as the second AD-carry" and the answer depends on your opponents. will urgot without farm ever be as good as soraka or taric or whomever without farm? come on, you know the answer to that...
Soraka, no, Taric? Probably lol.
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So random discussion time, especially after IPL: What more are we looking for in casters or how can they improve? It's easy to say "these casters are bad" or "less of X more of Y", where X is usually "OMG THAT FLASH" and Y is usually "high level analysis".
What specifically can casters do to better themselves? Just as discussion, I'm not looking to do it myself. Should there be more meta game/grand strategy talk? Should they go in depth about lane matchups? Obviously not missing fights is important, but anything in particular that would make your viewing experience better?
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United States47024 Posts
On April 09 2012 13:58 Requizen wrote:
So random discussion time, especially after IPL: What more are we looking for in casters or how can they improve? It's easy to say "these casters are bad" or "less of X more of Y", where X is usually "OMG THAT FLASH" and Y is usually "high level analysis".
What specifically can casters do to better themselves? Just as discussion, I'm not looking to do it myself. Should there be more meta game/grand strategy talk? Should they go in depth about lane matchups? Obviously not missing fights is important, but anything in particular that would make your viewing experience better?
I said this in the other thread--casters should focus on casting. They should leave commentary and analysis to their pro commentator casting partner (e.g. Dan Dinh). This means that they should focus on explaining what's going on, and expressing excitement when exciting moments happen (without overdoing it). Their role is to make it so the new or low-level player can understand what's going on, and to give a general sense of the flow of the game (looking at items, summoner CDs, objectives, global gold, etc.). This is not an easy task in and of itself--many inexperienced commentators can focus too hard on the statistics and end up being boring about it.
Additionally, the caster should be able to fill lulls in the action with information that might be interesting to all viewers (not just the newcomers). This is why I feel Zenon has potential as a caster (and this is a quality that he shares with Tobi Wan)--he is acquainted with many of the competing players on the European server. This allows him to share insight into player playstyles, background, etc. Things that help us connect to the players.
A lot of these things should come naturally from having casters that are actually interested and invested in the competitive scene. You don't necessarily need casters that know a lot about the game, but knowing the players is pretty huge--and I think Riot as well as event organizers have missed out on this. You don't see the "casters" like redbaron, fourcourtjester, or rivington ever interact regularly with pro players on their streams, while you can see Tobi Wan chatting with (or at least on the friend lists of) various pro DotA streamers. Lack of game knowledge isn't really the problem when it comes to casters. Lack of knowledge about professional LoL play itself is.
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I still think the biggest pain for LoL's casting is the lack of replays. Replays are a huge source for 'amateur' casters who will inevitably become your actual casters(see: non day9 and tastosis casters in SC2, it almost covers everyone else). I've wanted to cast LoL for awhile(although I can't stream because of my terrible upstream so I'd have to co-cast with someone doing the streaming, obviously not ideal) but there's just not a real avenue to do it. LoLReplay is terrible, and no pro teams are letting people spec their scrims(although that seems more due to them wanting the stream revenue than them being tight lipped about strategy, as the scrims themselves get streamed with team comms audible). Your best available resource is restreaming or casting VoDs(which means video quality reduction and the choice of muting game sound or trying to cast over the stream/vod sound so you have game sound).
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a pet peeve of mine is that they don't really look at items that much, and they really should. Because all I know is, I should've heard a shit storm about HSGG's olaf build.
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EPT
