EPT[Patch 1.0.0.135: Fiora] General Discussion - Page 164
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Same rules apply, per usual. Please use the appropriate threads (QQ, Brag, Champion, etc) whenever appropriate. Keep the resident Banling content. Thanks. Happy Gaming. | ||
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NeedsmoreCELLTECH
Netherlands1242 Posts
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
On March 16 2012 00:52 turdburgler wrote: theres no reason the xp couldnt be deflated early and scale up after a few minutes to compensate. the jungle actually doesnt have tons of xp, it gets masked by the big camps basically rushing you to level 4. they could make it so the jungler doesnt get a retarded xp boost in the early game then slowly drop off compared to solo lanes. No, they couldnt. You can only keep up with solo lanes till level 4, and only if you do nothing but afk farm a speed clearer. Anyone else will be behind a level starting at the point solo lanes hit 4. And where do you pull the exp FROM. You can only get 1 level on either side of the jungle. If you reduce that further, you make it so that you need to clear your entire jungle to hit level 2 and a half. You would need a second full clear to hit level 3. By that time every other lane will be level 4-5. It would be too late at that point, even if exp scaled. You wouldnt be able to catch up. They already deflated exp once. They cannot do it again. | ||
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red_
United States8474 Posts
On March 16 2012 00:58 NeedsmoreCELLTECH wrote: Our Irelia just went 0/9 against a Graves top. Is it really an impossible lane, or is this Irelia just bad? I don't see how, if ad is truely bad, someone could ever take something like Irelia in a competitive scene. Won't they just take an AD and shut you down 100%? I mean... no matchup is 0/9 bad unless you make it that bad by forcing the issue when you know you're at a disadvantage. I don't see why it would be such an awful matchup though. | ||
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overt
United States9006 Posts
On March 16 2012 00:58 NeedsmoreCELLTECH wrote: Our Irelia just went 0/9 against a Graves top. Is it really an impossible lane, or is this Irelia just bad? I don't see how, if ad is truely bad, someone could ever take something like Irelia in a competitive scene. Won't they just take an AD and shut you down 100%? You should never die nine times in lane. No matter how hard something "counters" you. I don't play much Irelia but I know that lots of AD carries, including Graves, can solo top or mid just fine. People don't run those counter lanes because of a lot of reasons. They'd rather keep their AD carry safe bottom and get the guaranteed CS that comes with a support, top lane is real scary especially if the enemy jungler camps the lane. And AD carries are pretty damn squishy. You also want your AD carry bottom for dragon fights and for helping the team push lanes down, while your solo top is usually some bigfuck bruiser who can split push npnp. There are straight up counters to AD carry/support bottom too but no one ever runs them. It's probably because people haven't played around with team comps enough to find one that's better than what we currently have and while you could just straight up run counter lanes you'd still need a team that can build into late game especially when you consider that the enemy team can just lane swap if the lanes are super unfavorable. edit: I'm not saying Graves is Irelia counter btw. I don't play Irelia, so I really don't know. I just know that lots of AD carries can beat a lot (but not all) bruisers in solo lanes. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On March 16 2012 00:58 NeedsmoreCELLTECH wrote: Our Irelia just went 0/9 against a Graves top. Is it really an impossible lane, or is this Irelia just bad? I don't see how, if ad is truely bad, someone could ever take something like Irelia in a competitive scene. Won't they just take an AD and shut you down 100%? Huh? You just open something like boots 5 and stay away until you can lasthit at tower and heal up etc. after tabi and wriggles the graves is screwed, irelia's one of the best champions to have vs ranged because she has a great gapcloser | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
On March 16 2012 01:08 wei2coolman wrote: Completely unrelated, but have just figured out throuhg facebook, that I'm a friends friend of Ryan "Morello" Scott. It didn't really hit me, until he posted on my friend's status (riot nyandalee, RL friends with her). lol. Man small world. How is it a small world? They both work at Riot, therefore you being a friend with a Rioter automatically means that you are a 'friend's friend' of all of them...? | ||
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Abenson
Canada4122 Posts
On March 16 2012 01:08 Shikyo wrote: Huh? You just open something like boots 5 and stay away until you can lasthit at tower and heal up etc. after tabi and wriggles the graves is screwed, irelia's one of the best champions to have vs ranged because she has a great gapcloser I don't think going the utility masteries for the extra potions is worth it on an ad carry though. | ||
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overt
United States9006 Posts
On March 16 2012 01:15 Abenson wrote: I don't think going the utility masteries for the extra potions is worth it on an ad carry though. I think he meant cloth + 5. | ||
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Lylat
France8575 Posts
On March 16 2012 01:15 Abenson wrote: I don't think going the utility masteries for the extra potions is worth it on an ad carry though. He probably meant cloth+5 | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
On March 16 2012 01:00 Two_DoWn wrote: No, they couldnt. You can only keep up with solo lanes till level 4, and only if you do nothing but afk farm a speed clearer. Anyone else will be behind a level starting at the point solo lanes hit 4. And where do you pull the exp FROM. You can only get 1 level on either side of the jungle. If you reduce that further, you make it so that you need to clear your entire jungle to hit level 2 and a half. You would need a second full clear to hit level 3. By that time every other lane will be level 4-5. It would be too late at that point, even if exp scaled. You wouldnt be able to catch up. They already deflated exp once. They cannot do it again. If they did scale exp enough that you'd get the same total at, say, 7 minutes you'd end up drastically empowering farming junglers because thereafter the jungle would grant at least 75% more exp than it does currently. I don't think "fixing" level 2 ganking is worth the consequences of nearly doubling the exp value of the jungle past 8 minutes. | ||
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
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Sandster
United States4054 Posts
Solves bot lane taking camps too. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On March 16 2012 01:15 Abenson wrote: I don't think going the utility masteries for the extra potions is worth it on an ad carry though. Boots 4 *********** And utility is ok on irelia On March 16 2012 01:39 Sandster wrote: Honestly they need to just change when jungle camp spawn. Somewhere between 1:50 and 2:00 for small camp, and 2:00+ for buffs. Make it so that, while you can still leash, you will be at a disadvantage in lane/levels if you leash, offset by the faster/safer jungle. Right now there's no penalty for leashing. Solves bot lane taking camps too. This along with the first three small camps giving slightly more exp could be quite good actually | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On March 16 2012 00:58 NeedsmoreCELLTECH wrote: Our Irelia just went 0/9 against a Graves top. Is it really an impossible lane, or is this Irelia just bad? I don't see how, if ad is truely bad, someone could ever take something like Irelia in a competitive scene. Won't they just take an AD and shut you down 100%? Bad matchups are never an excuse for dying. Bad matchups means you lose farm, and have to bluepill. If you stay and die, it's because you misplayed. On March 16 2012 01:36 Seuss wrote: If they did scale exp enough that you'd get the same total at, say, 7 minutes you'd end up drastically empowering farming junglers because thereafter the jungle would grant at least 75% more exp than it does currently. I don't think "fixing" level 2 ganking is worth the consequences of nearly doubling the exp value of the jungle past 8 minutes. Except junglers don't clear at the same rate. How do you adjust the XP scaling in such away that it affects all junglers in a uniform manner? On March 16 2012 01:39 Sandster wrote: Honestly they need to just change when jungle camp spawn. Somewhere between 1:50 and 2:00 for small camp, and 2:00+ for buffs. Make it so that, while you can still leash, you will be at a disadvantage in lane/levels if you leash, offset by the faster/safer jungle. Right now there's no penalty for leashing. That just fucks over junglers in solo queue. No laner will ever make a sacrifice like that for their jungler if it means they start off worse in lane even if it's the "right" thing to do. That said, pushing up small camps to spawn at the same time as buff camps (so that you can't finish both with help) might work. | ||
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turdburgler
England6749 Posts
On March 16 2012 01:00 Two_DoWn wrote: No, they couldnt. You can only keep up with solo lanes till level 4, and only if you do nothing but afk farm a speed clearer. Anyone else will be behind a level starting at the point solo lanes hit 4. And where do you pull the exp FROM. You can only get 1 level on either side of the jungle. If you reduce that further, you make it so that you need to clear your entire jungle to hit level 2 and a half. You would need a second full clear to hit level 3. By that time every other lane will be level 4-5. It would be too late at that point, even if exp scaled. You wouldnt be able to catch up. They already deflated exp once. They cannot do it again. i think you are exaggerating what im trying to say. at the moment you first clear you are somewhere around level 4, maybe a bit higher. but the second round probably wont even get you 6. because so much xp on the first round was actually the buff monsters. theres no reason you couldnt revalue the xp so that, for example, buff camps in terms of xp are worth no more than normal camps, boost all the xp values, then you have a situation where maybe you are 3.5 or so after first clear, but still close to 6 after second clear. this would mean there is more overall xp in the jungle, much more xp when buff camps arent available, and make get buff > camp lane for 45 seconds, less viable. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On March 16 2012 01:53 turdburgler wrote: i think you are exaggerating what im trying to say. at the moment you first clear you are somewhere around level 4, maybe a bit higher. but the second round probably wont even get you 6. because so much xp on the first round was actually the buff monsters. theres no reason you couldnt revalue the xp so that, for example, buff camps in terms of xp are worth no more than normal camps, boost all the xp values, then you have a situation where maybe you are 3.5 or so after first clear, but still close to 6 after second clear. this would mean there is more overall xp in the jungle, much more xp when buff camps arent available, and make get buff > camp lane for 45 seconds, less viable. The problem is that camp scaling isn't static--it happens when the camp gets cleared. Which means that scaling mechanics either punish slower junglers even harder than they already do, or you have to start convoluting the banking mechanics really hard adjusting the bank rate/cap as the game progresses--which makes the mechanic in turn more inaccessible for newer players. | ||
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turdburgler
England6749 Posts
On March 16 2012 01:56 TheYango wrote: The problem is that camp scaling isn't static--it happens when the camp gets cleared. Which means that scaling mechanics either punish slower junglers even harder than they already do, or you have to start convoluting the banking mechanics really hard adjusting the bank rate/cap as the game progresses--which makes the mechanic in turn more inaccessible for newer players. well i dont know what riots philosophy is supposed to be. but why arent we accepting that some champions just cant jungle? i know they wanted it to be more accessible, but i think you can accomplish that soley by making olaf 450ip, hes someone who can jungle without any runes or masteries, clears insanely fast. has a few different abilities, skillshot, true damage, resistances and penetration. hes like a lol hand book, and making him so easy to get would open up the jungle to anyone who wants to try it. | ||
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