On March 14 2012 12:10 0123456789 wrote: M5 doesn't respect the US. The US needs to show dem Russians who's boss. Can't let them run around owning every tourney anymore, even though they deserve dem wins.
Not to worry, in a year or two when LoL picks up in Korea, Koreans will just dominate everyone by miles and miles and no other country will ever be able to keep up because Koreans will start doing build ORDERS with team comps and start timing EVERYTHING to the precise second, including small camps and minion waves.
They will come up with some elaborate mathematically timed strategy that involves having x jungler gank y lane with z champion at exactly #:## in game time during which minions are halfway between the inner turret and outer turret which will give them t seconds to use certain abilities just in time for the minion wave to arrive.
Yes, I know LoL is a team game with many more variables than Brood War. But I still would not be surprised if Korean progaming could turn LoL into an exact science to that level.
On March 14 2012 09:44 nojitosunrise wrote: He also plays nocturne like a support jungler. (TSM then blames TRM for the loss)
THIS is the problem. If TOO can only play supportive junglers, then they should focus on picking around the supportive jungle picks. It's not a problem in and of itself that he's more comfortable playing supportive junglers. Certainly, his Maokai is workable, and there are other picks in the pool that they can learn to play with. The problem is trying to shoehorn farm-dependent junglers into a supportive role just makes them useless.
or they will just play team games for a few hours to win the $1,000,000 put up by riot rather than stream solo queue and bay life for a few grand a year in stream view ads
Yeah I dunno if Korea is going to be the dominant force as it was in SC2, tbh I think Lol is going down more the Counter Strike pathway rather than the Starcraft pathway.
I'm just waiting for some well-known Chinese ex-DotA pros to switch over and form a team or something.
WE.Misaya doesn't count because he was essentially a B-class player when he was still playing DotA. He played with players who went on to be some of the most well-known players in the Chinese DotA scene and was by a noticeable margin the worst player on his team.
On March 14 2012 12:26 TheYango wrote: I'm just waiting for some well-known Chinese ex-DotA pros to switch over and form a team or something.
WE.Misaya doesn't count because he was essentially a B-class player when he was still playing DotA. He played with players who went on to be some of the most well-known players in the Chinese DotA scene and was by a noticeable margin the worst player on his team.
If being good at DotA makes you good at LoL how come all the DotA pro's havn't switched to LoL? If it so easy why not? As it currently stands there is much more money in LoL.
The quality of a team reflects the quality of the solo q ladder on that server. Its really as simple as that.
If nothing else, solo q is great at picking out the shit that is broken. The better a server, the faster that rises to the top, then gets adopted into ranked play. Or the better the competition if pros decide to test stuff out in solo q. But each community goes through phases- just look at the Chinese server. Apparently Ezreal was broken op as an ad carry a few months ago. But now its my understanding that Cait is the character everyone is complaining about. Sound familiar? That was the NA server 9 months to a year ago. Which makes sense- the Chinese servers came online after the NA/EU ones by a sizable margin.
What remains to be seen is if those servers are capable of improving fast enough to generate enough good players to compete with the West, and eventually find broken characters on their own.
On March 14 2012 12:26 TheYango wrote: I'm just waiting for some well-known Chinese ex-DotA pros to switch over and form a team or something.
WE.Misaya doesn't count because he was essentially a B-class player when he was still playing DotA. He played with players who went on to be some of the most well-known players in the Chinese DotA scene and was by a noticeable margin the worst player on his team.
If being good at DotA makes you good at LoL how come all the DotA pro's havn't switched to LoL? If it so easy why not? As it currently stands there is much more money in LoL.
This is not the case in China, as far as I'm aware. There are a LOT more DotA tournaments in China than in anywhere else in the world.
On March 14 2012 12:26 TheYango wrote: I'm just waiting for some well-known Chinese ex-DotA pros to switch over and form a team or something.
WE.Misaya doesn't count because he was essentially a B-class player when he was still playing DotA. He played with players who went on to be some of the most well-known players in the Chinese DotA scene and was by a noticeable margin the worst player on his team.
If being good at DotA makes you good at LoL how come all the DotA pro's havn't switched to LoL? If it so easy why not? As it currently stands there is much more money in LoL.
False argument. As much as I love LoL over dota, and HoN, this argument is not winning anyone over.
On March 14 2012 12:35 Two_DoWn wrote: What remains to be seen is if those servers are capable of improving fast enough to generate enough good players to compete with the West, and eventually find broken characters on their own.
This is why I think Chinese ex-DotA pros will have a shot if they switch. It has nothing to do with whether or not being good at DotA makes you good at LoL, but rather that Chinese professional DotA as an established scene/practice structure is second only to Korean Starcraft.
LoL and Dota are VERY different games. The skill set might seem similar, but only as far as, say, football and basketball both use a ball and let you touch the ball. And sure, you see some crossover athletes, and being good at one is probably an indicator that you are at least decent at the other. But MJ was a horrible Baseball player. Lebron wouldnt be the best NFL player in the world.
I am fairly new to Dota, but the biggest difference I have seen so far is that LoL is FAR more punishing. Losing fights in Dota really doesnt mean that much because of how big the map is and because of buybacks. I mean, sure, giving an enemy team a gold advantage sucks cuz you will probably lose the next teamfight too, but you rarely see a "win teamfight take inhib or win game," even late game. Losing raxes are no where near as punishing a factor as they are in lol. And fights are MUCH longer and take up much more space.
And thats just one difference. It really is an entirely different game with an entirely different skill set- and not everything you practice in one game is going to help in the other- in fact a lot of stuff will actually hurt you if you try to carry over those skills, in either direction.
On March 14 2012 12:41 Two_DoWn wrote: LoL and Dota are VERY different games. The skill set might seem similar, but only as far as, say, football and basketball both use a ball and let you touch the ball. And sure, you see some crossover athletes, and being good at one is probably an indicator that you are at least decent at the other. But MJ was a horrible Baseball player. Lebron wouldnt be the best NFL player in the world.
Those analogies aren't all that good because the LoL scene isn't anywhere near as developed as it's going to be. No one can be at the pinnacle of achievement in both games, but nothing that any LoL team is accomplishing right now is remotely close to the pinnacle of achievement.
A few years from now we're probably even going to be laughing at ourselves for thinking that M5 was that good.
On March 14 2012 12:41 Two_DoWn wrote: LoL and Dota are VERY different games. The skill set might seem similar, but only as far as, say, football and basketball both use a ball and let you touch the ball. And sure, you see some crossover athletes, and being good at one is probably an indicator that you are at least decent at the other. But MJ was a horrible Baseball player. Lebron wouldnt be the best NFL player in the world.
Those analogies aren't all that good because the LoL scene isn't anywhere near as developed as it's going to be. No one can be at the pinnacle of achievement in both games, but nothing that any LoL team is accomplishing right now is remotely close to the pinnacle of achievement.
MJ and Lebron miss shots. They lose games. They arent at the pinacle of achievement of basketball either. They are just 2 of the best we have seen up to this point.
Its a perfectly fair analogy to draw- especially when you consider that someone would laugh at you if you suggested that Wilt would be able to score 100 points in the NBA today.
On March 14 2012 12:41 Two_DoWn wrote: LoL and Dota are VERY different games. The skill set might seem similar, but only as far as, say, football and basketball both use a ball and let you touch the ball. And sure, you see some crossover athletes, and being good at one is probably an indicator that you are at least decent at the other. But MJ was a horrible Baseball player. Lebron wouldnt be the best NFL player in the world.
Those analogies aren't all that good because the LoL scene isn't anywhere near as developed as it's going to be. No one can be at the pinnacle of achievement in both games, but nothing that any LoL team is accomplishing right now is remotely close to the pinnacle of achievement.
MJ and Lebron miss shots. They lose games. They arent at the pinacle of achievement of basketball either. They are just 2 of the best we have seen up to this point.
Its a perfectly fair analogy to draw- especially when you consider that someone would laugh at you if you suggested that Wilt would be able to score 100 points in the NBA today.
This is a bad analogy because you replaced Kobe with Lebron.
On March 14 2012 12:41 Two_DoWn wrote: LoL and Dota are VERY different games. The skill set might seem similar, but only as far as, say, football and basketball both use a ball and let you touch the ball. And sure, you see some crossover athletes, and being good at one is probably an indicator that you are at least decent at the other. But MJ was a horrible Baseball player. Lebron wouldnt be the best NFL player in the world.
Those analogies aren't all that good because the LoL scene isn't anywhere near as developed as it's going to be. No one can be at the pinnacle of achievement in both games, but nothing that any LoL team is accomplishing right now is remotely close to the pinnacle of achievement.
MJ and Lebron miss shots. They lose games. They arent at the pinacle of achievement of basketball either. They are just 2 of the best we have seen up to this point.
Its a perfectly fair analogy to draw- especially when you consider that someone would laugh at you if you suggested that Wilt would be able to score 100 points in the NBA today.
This is a bad analogy because you replaced Kobe with Lebron.
On March 14 2012 12:41 Two_DoWn wrote: LoL and Dota are VERY different games. The skill set might seem similar, but only as far as, say, football and basketball both use a ball and let you touch the ball. And sure, you see some crossover athletes, and being good at one is probably an indicator that you are at least decent at the other. But MJ was a horrible Baseball player. Lebron wouldnt be the best NFL player in the world.
Those analogies aren't all that good because the LoL scene isn't anywhere near as developed as it's going to be. No one can be at the pinnacle of achievement in both games, but nothing that any LoL team is accomplishing right now is remotely close to the pinnacle of achievement.
MJ and Lebron miss shots. They lose games. They arent at the pinacle of achievement of basketball either. They are just 2 of the best we have seen up to this point.
Its a perfectly fair analogy to draw- especially when you consider that someone would laugh at you if you suggested that Wilt would be able to score 100 points in the NBA today.
Meh. My point still stands. As I'm said, I'm not even arguing that any amount of skill transfers over from DotA to LoL, but that Chinese DotA and Korean Starcraft represent the two most stable and professional environments for improving at their respective games--the rate at which both made advancements in their respective games absolutely dwarfed their Western competition. And unlike Korean Starcraft, Chinese DotA is already playing a team game.
Even with a "level playing field" in Starcraft 2, the rate at which Korean understanding of the game moved forward drastically outpaced the West. I expect the same to be true of LoL, it's just that Chinese LoL is starting with basically a 2 year disadvantage, so they have to catch up first.
On March 14 2012 12:41 Two_DoWn wrote: LoL and Dota are VERY different games. The skill set might seem similar, but only as far as, say, football and basketball both use a ball and let you touch the ball. And sure, you see some crossover athletes, and being good at one is probably an indicator that you are at least decent at the other. But MJ was a horrible Baseball player. Lebron wouldnt be the best NFL player in the world.
Those analogies aren't all that good because the LoL scene isn't anywhere near as developed as it's going to be. No one can be at the pinnacle of achievement in both games, but nothing that any LoL team is accomplishing right now is remotely close to the pinnacle of achievement.
MJ and Lebron miss shots. They lose games. They arent at the pinacle of achievement of basketball either. They are just 2 of the best we have seen up to this point.
Its a perfectly fair analogy to draw- especially when you consider that someone would laugh at you if you suggested that Wilt would be able to score 100 points in the NBA today.
This is a bad analogy because you replaced Kobe with Lebron.
EPT
