EPT[OGN] The Champions Spring 2012 - Page 193
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The Champions Feedback Thread General Warning: Do not caster bash in this thread. If there's something specific you don't like about OGN's casting, use the Feedback thread above for constructive criticism. Otherwise, don't comment about it. ~ Neo, 30.03.12, 20:25 KST | ||
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Juicyfruit
Canada5484 Posts
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Sabin010
United States1892 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + Was anybody else as happy as me to see CLG leave empty handed? After HotShotGG's past racists comments about Koreans, its quite ironic they got beat by a Korean team. | ||
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SilverStar
Sweden18511 Posts
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0123456789
United States3216 Posts
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petered
United States1817 Posts
Going from BW to SC2 everyone thought the rest of the world would be able to close the gap. The conditions were perfect: - Western teams got more serious and made gaming houses. They even sent their best players to play in Korea against the best players. - The best BW players didn't make the switch, holding back a big portion of the top talent while all of the West moved to SC2 immediately - SC2's doesn't have as high of a skill cap in terms of mechanics (though it is still quite high) Then Korea dominated SC2. Not as hard as BW meaning the above factors did help, but dominated hard enough that we have to look somewhere other than the common explanations. To me, it is obvious. It goes all the way down to the cultural level that drives Koreans to straight up work harder than their Western counterparts. I don't see any reason why this won't translate to LoL like it did to SC2. Korea is late to the game, but with Korean LoL skyrocketing in popularity (as I understand it), it is only a matter of time. I FOR ONE WELCOME OUR NEW KOREAN OVERLORDS. Dramatics aside, I would love to see the top EU teams like M5, CLG.eu, and AL (all of whom I think are better than CLG atm) face off against the Koreans to get a good idea of where they are currently. | ||
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Azarkon
United States21060 Posts
On April 27 2012 06:27 petered wrote: Korea will be home to the best LoL teams in the near future. Korean culture values/cultivates hard work and dedication far more than western culture, and it directly translates into success in esports. Going from BW to SC2 everyone thought the rest of the world would be able to close the gap. The conditions were perfect: - Western teams got more serious and made gaming houses. They even sent their best players to play in Korea against the best players. - The best BW players didn't make the switch, holding back a big portion of the top talent while all of the West moved to SC2 immediately - SC2's doesn't have as high of a skill cap in terms of mechanics (though it is still quite high) Then Korea dominated SC2. Not as hard as BW meaning the above factors did help, but dominated hard enough that we have to look somewhere other than the common explanations. To me, it is obvious. It goes all the way down to the cultural level that drives Koreans to straight up work harder than their Western counterparts. I don't see any reason why this won't translate to LoL like it did to SC2. Korea is late to the game, but with Korean LoL skyrocketing in popularity (as I understand it), it is only a matter of time. I FOR ONE WELCOME OUR NEW KOREAN OVERLORDS. Dramatics aside, I would love to see the top EU teams like M5, CLG.eu, and AL (all of whom I think are better than CLG atm) face off against the Koreans to get a good idea of where they are currently. I'm not sold on Koreans in low APM team games owning everyone yet. Their success in FPS games isn't very good, for example, though FPS games were and are popular in Korea. Hard work gets you far in games that require a huge amount of mechanics, but in LoL, I don't know. | ||
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Vlanitak
Norway3045 Posts
I think it was the 2nd day of clg's group matches when i asked chauster about the korean teams. And what he said atm that point was thet: yes the korean teams are good. they have good training schedules and lay in a lot of hard practicing. But they will, as many also think clg.na does, tunnel vision on the Meta theyy know and not being able to adapt to other styles of play. Yet to see a good korean team do something different than just playing solid meta. If the na/eu scenes can keep making new atuff from time to time, like we saw m5 do for instance, then the'll be fine. Now we know that the koreans have the creativity, but that was in a heavy mechinacl games and in bw when was the last time things changed? (I have no clue honestly). However, we do know that they definitly have one of the strictest training and pro regimes in the world. We know they'll pracc hard and want to be the very best, always. And tbh I see what chauster was saying. The koean teams are damn good but they dont really bring amything new to the table as of now. Tobad clg and fnatic dont really either... OGN spring is not the Asia vs the rest showdown people want. It had 2 foreign teams, who both arguably have the same problem: being stuck in their playstyle. CLsplitpushG and a limited champ number (not as bad as it used to. But still pretty low) and FnaticdoubleAPRC, we'll see how the last one does later today (tomorrow for you guys). We'll see how a foreign team does against the clg of korea and the only non prof team left. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22131 Posts
As for there lack of succes in FPS games isnt that because they have there own game (sudden attack?) and dont actualy play CS/Quake on a level like the western world does? And yes they dont bring anything new to the table but how can they. They have only recently started playing. As i think has been remarked before there meta isnt unlike the rest of the world was a couple of months ago. Yet once they catch up I see them surpassing the rest in innovation aswell. If there is an optimal path they will find it. Ofc they dont do radical changes just cause they can but if it works well they will find it and use it. | ||
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CeriseCherries
6170 Posts
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Goshawk.
United Kingdom5338 Posts
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overt
United States9006 Posts
On April 27 2012 06:27 petered wrote: To me, it is obvious. It goes all the way down to the cultural level that drives Koreans to straight up work harder than their Western counterparts. I don't see any reason why this won't translate to LoL like it did to SC2. Korea is late to the game, but with Korean LoL skyrocketing in popularity (as I understand it), it is only a matter of time. I think it has little to do with Korean culture to be honest. Unless by culture you mean the fact that being a pro-gamer isn't as looked down upon as it is in North America or that professional gaming is a legit career in South Korea due to the success of Brood War. They have team houses set up properly. With a proper coach, with proper training schedules, and with set rules. I don't follow much SC2 but I'm pretty sure that the SC2 gaming houses in NA don't do these things. I know for a fact that TSM's gaming house prior to Jonas arriving didn't do these things and with Jonas leaving they don't have a coach and likely don't have much of a schedule. CLG's gaming house was the same way, no set schedule, no times set aside to strategize and analyze their plays, no coach to keep them all in line. Korea success in LoL will depend on if the teams there continue to copy/paste the Brood War model which is what they seem to be doing already especially MiG that has two teams which allows them to properly practice at all times just like the Brood War gaming houses. On April 27 2012 10:31 Goshawk. wrote: SC and SC2 pay off a lot more in terms of hardcore practice time converting into skill, it's a lot harder to achieve the top level through just practice and depends a lot more on individual skill and team synergy. Claiming that Koreans are going to dominate LoL is pretty farfetched atm, with only the loses of the pretty mediocre CLG and possibly fnatic to come. CLG is easily #1 or #2 team in NA. They just came off 2nd place at IPL4, going 2-2 in the finals against TSM. Calling them mediocre is like calling the entire NA scene mediocre which seems silly to me because I don't think teams like CLGeu or M5 are leaps and bounds better than CLGna. Better? Sure. But good enough to consider CLGna mediocre? Nah. I think their loss was a combination of improper practice and shitty play in general. Obviously MiG played well too. It's not like CLG's in a slump though, and it's not like there are more than two maybe three EU teams that can definitely be considered better than them. The scene is still really young. And I don't think that one tournament means anything. But at the very least this tournament has shown that the Korean teams appear to be on par with non-Korean teams. I only think they'll end up dominating the scene if they continue their practice/team structure while NA/EU teams continue trying to make it work the way they're used to. No way you can compete with teams that have proper team houses if you're just playing online with each other 2-3 hours a day or if you have some half-assed team house. | ||
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miicah
Australia2470 Posts
I don't see why playing soloq for 2 hours isn't a good idea, ofc scrimming is going to be better but there has to be other teams to do that  | ||
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nyxnyxnyx
Indonesia2978 Posts
tier 1: TPA, M5 (in no particular order) tier 1.5: WE, MiG frost (need to clean up gameplay) tier 2: CLGeu, other KR top teams tier 2.5: top EU NA chinese teams( some closer to t2 than others) the tiers are close. < 2 tiers apart will suggest a match in favor or higher tiered, but not unwinnable | ||
NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
WE is a bit questionable though. Why they so high? | ||
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tyCe
Australia2542 Posts
Their AP mid is a beast, as is their AD carry. Their team coordination and controlled aggression drives other teams mad. | ||
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nyxnyxnyx
Indonesia2978 Posts
agree on WE, gonna bump down to 1.5 | ||
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Vlanitak
Norway3045 Posts
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NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
On April 27 2012 12:10 tyCe wrote: WE is fucking godtier and a half. People don't know they're strong because they haven't seen their games. WE is #1 in the world imo, with M5 and the best Korean teams probably lurking nearby. Their AP mid is a beast, as is their AD carry. Their team coordination and controlled aggression drives other teams mad. Where are you watching WE games? :O :O Not disagreeing with you or nyx. I'm asking because I simply haven't seen WE since like a year ago. | ||
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overt
United States9006 Posts
On April 27 2012 12:14 NeoIllusions wrote: Where are you watching WE games? :O :O Not disagreeing with you or nyx. I'm asking because I simply haven't seen WE since like a year ago. Wasn't it WE that got like fourth place at the last OGN event? I'm pretty sure it was WE that lost to EDG there. Could've definitely been a fluke or they could've gotten a lot better. As I said, one tournament doesn't mean anything. I'm still a bit skeptical considering that I've not really seen them play and that I don't think they scrim or play the top EU or NA teams too often. | ||
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nyxnyxnyx
Indonesia2978 Posts
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