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NeoIllusions
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
United States37500 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-23 05:48:06
March 21 2012 12:44 GMT
#1
If American and European tournaments are any indication, we consistently see a number of casters and Rioters read and lurk TeamLiquid.net for helpful tidbits and content, even while the streams are live.

A few minutes ago, many of us just witnessed the first LoL competition in Korea hosted by OGN. The goal of this thread is for TL to create an early repertoire with OGN officials, if possible. We want to further League of Legends as an ESPORT, so what better way than to have the fans provide constructive criticism.

Please cut/paste the template below when responding in this thread. Your comments will be collected daily and added to the OP. I want to stress the importance of "constructive criticism". Form your statements in a professional manner that can be helpful to OGN staff or volunteer yourself for a temp ban. Consider this fair warning to all.

[b]Positives[/b]
+
+
+

[b]Negatives[/b]
-
-
-



+ Show Spoiler [Ro16 Group A Day 1] +

+ Show Spoiler [Production Feedback] +

Positives
+ Production Quality. Needlessly to say, OGN has set the bar higher than any other offline tournament we've seen thus far. From tournament intro to individual lane matchups, superb and exciting.
+ Voice over on team chat. While not entirely beneficial to non-Korean speakers, the voice overs are immensely interesting to hear, especially the calmness or excitement of the players as they game. Would be awesome if the English caster is able to translate these voice overs on the fly.
+ Minimizing item overview window during major team fights. Nice to not have certain spectator mode windows obstruct a major team fight.
+ 1080p is great
+ Audience excitement is great. Having people ooh and aah over plays.
+ Format. It's nice to see some sort of GSL-like tournament that lasts longer than a LAN. And that teams are not eliminated after a single bo1.
+ Direct translation of the interviews with players.
+ Huge/nice stage bring similar feeling like I was watching SC:BW proleague
+ English cast and VOD is free.
+ Korean live cast, love that so much.
+ Good stuff with the information and getting to know the players. I think it worked well and gave us something to enjoy and learn during the less interesting parts of the game. I liked the "showdown" style view where it showed the two players about to fight.

Negatives
- Game 1, Minimap in bottom right was out of alignment
- Ease up on the number of times a champion is zoomed in on (if at all). It's really not that exciting to see a champion up close.
- Twitch.tv volume a little low compared to own3d.tv
- Observer observes poorly. There were more than a few instances where the camera was off to the side of a teamfight or a gank.
- Switching the camera to players' faces is cool if we can occasionally catch some emotion, but the time spent this cast was a bit on the long side, since some action was missed.
- Stage too dark before game and teams should greet live audience before getting in booth.
- Not enough hype/marketing before tourney, this should deserved much more stream viewers than it did.
- Turn off in game sounds for Picks and bans select if you have sounds going around in the back.

+ Show Spoiler [Caster Feedback] +

Positives
+ Casting was the best I've heard for LoL. Enthusiastic and exciting. None of this "his flash is up so he'll get away" stuff. Not the best technically but it's way better than the terrible casting that every other tournament has had. The game stays interesting throughout which is something a lot of casters aren't doing. The casters also kept talking about how the second team still had a shot and were excited in team fights. I probably won't be watching English casting when I don't have to, but I think they did a great job.
+ Casting. I know lots of people shit on Moletrap for no reason, but he is one of the best casters to ever grace LoL. Not that there was any competition beforehand. They knew just enough to make the cast interesting and to not make me mute it (which i usually do in LoL tournaments). I mean knowledge about teams/players here. They specifically said they'd explain mostly basic stuff, since there are a lot of first-time viewers.
+ Some of the most professional English casters for LoL... they might not be 2000+elo but they have casting experience and are comfortable and don't say really retarded shit

Negatives
- I like when player names are used more often. I've lately heard Tobi do this more lately in casts and I really like it. It helps build up players and teams and it's really great when matches are BoX since it really keeps a link between games even if a player switches hero. I know this is kind of difficult with the English commentary on Korean games but hopefully it's something that can be worked on.
- The casting could definitely be better. Moletrap and Torch are not up to the level yet that we expect from other tournaments. I think with some time they could definitely step up to the mark though. And always use the player names, not the champion names. How else are new fans going to remember their favourite players?
- The casters' knowledge of the game was just terrible. I understand they may still be learning about LoL, but it really irks me when casters make statements that are simply false. Their knowledge really reminded me of the WC3 tournament that Tasteless and Artosis cast when they had no idea what was going on, except in that case it was funny because it was intentional and they played off it.
- Kind of going hand in hand with the above, several times straight up incorrect calls were made. At one point a caster was exclaiming how Janna had barely survived with a sliver of health, when she had already been dead 5-10 seconds and you could clearly see her bright red respawn timer with 12 seconds remaining on the left side. He never corrected himself. This sort of general lack of awareness was abundant in all the games IMO.
- The casters really need to work on their game knowledge, none of them knew what the abilities were called (i.e. Veigar's "cage thingy" (it's called Event Horizon), 10 different names for Morgana's Dark Binding, etc.)
- Please mute the voicechat segments for the English stream, we can't understand them and all that happens is we hear the casters and the players talking over each other.
ModeratorFor the Glory that is TeamLiquid (-9 | 155) | Discord: NeoIllusions#1984
NeoIllusions
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
United States37500 Posts
March 21 2012 12:45 GMT
#2
Positives
+ Production Quality. Needlessly to say, OGN has set the bar higher than any other offline tournament we've seen thus far. From tournament intro to individual lane matchups, superb and exciting.
+ Voice over on team chat. While not entirely beneficial to non-Korean speakers, the voice overs are immensely interesting to hear, especially the calmness or excitement of the players as they game. Would be awesome if the English caster is able to translate these voice overs on the fly.
+ Minimizing item overview window during major team fights. Nice to not have certain spectator mode windows obstruct a major team fight.

Negatives
- Game 1, Minimap in bottom right was out of alignment
- Ease up on the number of times a champion is zoomed in on (if at all). It's really not that exciting to see a champion up close.
ModeratorFor the Glory that is TeamLiquid (-9 | 155) | Discord: NeoIllusions#1984
Chexx
Profile Joined May 2011
Korea (South)11232 Posts
March 21 2012 12:47 GMT
#3
Positives
+ you already summerizied it ^^

Negatives
- Kennen's name in second game on ban screen was Kenne
- ownd3dtv sound was quiter then twitch ( i think)
WriterFollow me @TL_Chexx
how2TL
Profile Joined August 2010
1197 Posts
March 21 2012 12:52 GMT
#4
Positives
+ I know people hate on Moletrap but he should be given credit for his commentary mechanics. I can't commentate on his game knowledge (since I have little), but his commentary is very smooth and honestly was fine to listen to. Torch was great too. If you had very specific standards about how pro a commentator should be then you'll complain, but in general that's the kind of person that will always complain and never be happy.
+ 1080p bro
+ Audience. "Oooooooooo" Bringing dat hype. It's been missing.

Negatives
- Observer observes poorly. There were more than a few instances where the camera was off to the side of a teamfight or a gank.
- Switching the camera to players' faces is cool if we can occasionally catch some emotion, but the time spent this cast was a bit on the long side, since some action was missed.
- Teams need to fucking GG earlier.
GogoKodo
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
Canada1785 Posts
March 21 2012 12:57 GMT
#5
Positives
+ Overall good commentary
+ Good production

Negatives
- I like when player names are used more often. I've lately heard Tobi do this more lately in casts and I really like it. It helps build up players and teams and it's really great when matches are BoX since it really keeps a link between games even if a player switches hero. I know this is kind of difficult with the English commentary on Korean games but hopefully it's something that can be worked on.
twitter: @terrancem
DanielZKlein
Profile Joined January 2010
United States1171 Posts
March 21 2012 13:23 GMT
#6
Keep that feedback coming! Very interesting insight from all of you here.

*goes back to lurking*
My modesty is awesome.
Doctorbeat
Profile Joined May 2011
Netherlands13241 Posts
March 21 2012 13:40 GMT
#7
Positives
+ Production Value. Has been said already, but the emphasis needs to be there. This can really raise the bar for Western tourneys too.
+ Free HD quality stream.
+ Format. It's nice to see some sort of GSL-like tournament that lasts longer than a LAN. And that teams are not eliminated after a single bo1.
+ Direct translation of the interviews with players.

Negatives
- The casting could definitely be better. Moletrap and Torch are not up to the level yet that we expect from other tournaments. I think with some time they could definitely step up to the mark though. And always use the player names, not the champion names. How else are new fans going to remember their favourite players?
- Some observer mistakes. Maybe have a dedicated observer like ST_Legend in GSL?
- So far, the games themselves haven't been all that great. I hope that with the semi's and finals the teams left over will show us some great games.
- TEAM LIQUID - doctorbeat on LoL
Veclada
Profile Joined September 2010
742 Posts
March 21 2012 13:54 GMT
#8
Positives
+ Production quality
+
+

Negatives
- Sound was abit off sometime
- Observering dident go smooth at all
-
asdfg
Two_DoWn
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States13684 Posts
March 21 2012 14:04 GMT
#9
On March 21 2012 22:23 DanielZKlein wrote:
Keep that feedback coming! Very interesting insight from all of you here.

*goes back to lurking*

Why did I just imagine Zenon putting on one of those fake mustaches and sliding down under his desk?
"What is the air speed velocity of an unladen courier?" "Dire or Radiant?"
Caphe
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Vietnam10817 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-21 17:14:18
March 21 2012 17:09 GMT
#10
Positives
+ Top notch production value. This can be assured since they are professional TV channel
+ Huge/nice stage bring similar feeling like I was watching SC:BW proleague
+ English cast and VOD is free.
+ Korean live cast, love that so much.
+ Immediately winner interview so very little down time between matches. Also the girl is cute(my heart still belong to Tossgirl for the Esport girl though )
+Invited big EU/US teams for the tourney

Negatives
- Stage too dark before game and teams should greet live audience before getting in booth.
- Minor minimap problems
- Not enough hype/marketing before tourney, this should deserved much more stream viewers than it did.
- Game not high quality but Korean server just started like 3-4 months ago so I am worried about this too much.
-
Terran
Eee
Profile Joined August 2011
Sweden2712 Posts
March 21 2012 17:16 GMT
#11
I'd prefer if they would say the players names instead of saying the character names. But that's just me I guess. (I dont follow LoL otherwise).
Kickboxer
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Slovenia1308 Posts
March 21 2012 17:35 GMT
#12
Positives
+ everything aside from the negatives

Negatives
- extremely poor observing
- subpar teams
Flicky
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
England2663 Posts
March 21 2012 17:44 GMT
#13
Positives
+Casting was the best I've heard for LoL. Enthusiastic and exciting. None of this "his flash is up so he'll get away" stuff. Not the best technically but it's way better than the terrible casting that every other tournament has had. The game stays interesting throughout which is something a lot of casters aren't doing. The casters also kept talking about how the second team still had a shot and were excited in team fights. I probably won't be watching English casting when I don't have to, but I think they did a great job.
+Good stuff with the information and getting to know the players. I think it worked well and gave us something to enjoy and learn during the less interesting parts of the game. I liked the "showdown" style view where it showed the two players about to fight.

Negatives
- Just general things that'll dissolve over time, limited translation, cutting to player faces at bad times, observing etc. All things I expect to go away when the show has been running for a little longer.
Liquipedia"I was seriously looking for a black guy" - MrHoon
Jdorty
Profile Joined December 2010
United States17 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-21 18:40:54
March 21 2012 18:38 GMT
#14
Positives
+ Smooth streaming, good resolution (especially for a free stream)
+ Casters enthusiastics
+ Casters were good 'speakers'. Didn't stutter a lot and were easy to understand.

Negatives
- Camera wasn't always where it should be
- The casters' knowledge of the game was just terrible. I understand they may still be learning about LoL, but it really irks me when casters make statements that are simply false. Their knowledge really reminded me of the WC3 tournament that Tastless and Artosis cast when they had no idea what was going on, except in that case it was funny because it was intentional and they played off it.
- Kind of going hand in hand with the above, several times straight up incorrect calls were made. At one point a caster was exclaiming how Janna had barely survived with a sliver of health, when she had already been dead 5-10 seconds and you could clearly see her bright red respawn timer with 12 seconds remaining on the left side. He never corrected himself. This sort of general lack of awareness was abundant in all the games IMO.
Dandel Ion
Profile Joined November 2010
Austria17960 Posts
March 21 2012 20:37 GMT
#15
Positives
+ Casting. I know lots of people shit on Moletrap for no reason, but he is one of the best casters to ever grace LoL. Not that there was any competition beforehand. They knew just enough to make the cast interesting and to not make me mute it (which i usually do in LoL tournaments). I mean knowledge about teams/players here. They specifically said they'd explain mostly basic stuff, since there are a lot of first-time viewers.
+ Production. Such 'simple' things like the overlay that showed the map with the players in their positions while the casters talk about it. Soooo much better than blurred shots of player's faces in a dark room, like at IEM. Really helps visualizing the matchups. Add the current champions to the graphic and it's even more awesome.

Negatives
- Give MiG some real opponents, too easy.
- Observing could be improved (centering the camera in fights, not really smooth yet), but it also has some really good ideas, like minimizing the item-window (not that it matters when it doesn't actually show the whole fight)
A backwards poet writes inverse.
cuppatea
Profile Joined April 2010
United Kingdom1401 Posts
March 21 2012 21:16 GMT
#16
The casting is a big problem.

They seem to be tailoring it towards people who have never played LoL before, which is fine for the handful of BW fans on here tuning in because it's OGN but a real turn off to the thousands (surely tens of thousands when CLG play) of LoL fans tuning in because it's LoL. You can just compare and contrast the response to the casting on here, which is mostly warm, to the vitriol on r/leagueoflegends, which has a thread dedicated almost entirely to flaming the shit out of Moletrap.

Basically, if their goal is to keep a few dozen BW fans happy then they should keep doing what they're doing but if they want to tap in to the massive international LoL audience, they need to think about bringing in dedicated LoL casters rather than drafting in 2 SC guys to wing it.

Other than that the production was as good as you'd expect from OGN and it's nice to see they're actually bothering with an English cast, even if they don't seem to have put much thought into who's going to be watching it.
how2TL
Profile Joined August 2010
1197 Posts
March 21 2012 21:46 GMT
#17
On March 22 2012 06:16 cuppatea wrote:
The casting is a big problem.

They seem to be tailoring it towards people who have never played LoL before, which is fine for the handful of BW fans on here tuning in because it's OGN but a real turn off to the thousands (surely tens of thousands when CLG play) of LoL fans tuning in because it's LoL. You can just compare and contrast the response to the casting on here, which is mostly warm, to the vitriol on r/leagueoflegends, which has a thread dedicated almost entirely to flaming the shit out of Moletrap.

Basically, if their goal is to keep a few dozen BW fans happy then they should keep doing what they're doing but if they want to tap in to the massive international LoL audience, they need to think about bringing in dedicated LoL casters rather than drafting in 2 SC guys to wing it.

Other than that the production was as good as you'd expect from OGN and it's nice to see they're actually bothering with an English cast, even if they don't seem to have put much thought into who's going to be watching it.


Reddit is a site devoted to the judging of people, places, ideas, and things. There's no reason to take a few people on there more seriously than anyone else.

You have no idea about how many noobie viewers there were versus high level ones. And guess what, the majority of the "massive LoL audience" will probably not be 1500+ ELO just like the majority of people who watch SC2 are not in masters league.
nojitosunrise
Profile Joined August 2011
United States6188 Posts
March 21 2012 21:49 GMT
#18
On March 22 2012 06:16 cuppatea wrote:
The casting is a big problem.

They seem to be tailoring it towards people who have never played LoL before, which is fine for the handful of BW fans on here tuning in because it's OGN but a real turn off to the thousands (surely tens of thousands when CLG play) of LoL fans tuning in because it's LoL. You can just compare and contrast the response to the casting on here, which is mostly warm, to the vitriol on r/leagueoflegends, which has a thread dedicated almost entirely to flaming the shit out of Moletrap.

Basically, if their goal is to keep a few dozen BW fans happy then they should keep doing what they're doing but if they want to tap in to the massive international LoL audience, they need to think about bringing in dedicated LoL casters rather than drafting in 2 SC guys to wing it.

Other than that the production was as good as you'd expect from OGN and it's nice to see they're actually bothering with an English cast, even if they don't seem to have put much thought into who's going to be watching it.



OGN caters it's casting to newer players. They value breadth of knowledge vs depth of knowledge. There was a Youtube video about it

+ Show Spoiler +
Jdorty
Profile Joined December 2010
United States17 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-21 22:16:23
March 21 2012 22:16 GMT
#19
On March 22 2012 06:46 how2TL wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 22 2012 06:16 cuppatea wrote:
The casting is a big problem.

They seem to be tailoring it towards people who have never played LoL before, which is fine for the handful of BW fans on here tuning in because it's OGN but a real turn off to the thousands (surely tens of thousands when CLG play) of LoL fans tuning in because it's LoL. You can just compare and contrast the response to the casting on here, which is mostly warm, to the vitriol on r/leagueoflegends, which has a thread dedicated almost entirely to flaming the shit out of Moletrap.

Basically, if their goal is to keep a few dozen BW fans happy then they should keep doing what they're doing but if they want to tap in to the massive international LoL audience, they need to think about bringing in dedicated LoL casters rather than drafting in 2 SC guys to wing it.

Other than that the production was as good as you'd expect from OGN and it's nice to see they're actually bothering with an English cast, even if they don't seem to have put much thought into who's going to be watching it.


Reddit is a site devoted to the judging of people, places, ideas, and things. There's no reason to take a few people on there more seriously than anyone else.

You have no idea about how many noobie viewers there were versus high level ones. And guess what, the majority of the "massive LoL audience" will probably not be 1500+ ELO just like the majority of people who watch SC2 are not in masters league.


I'm not a high elo player (I'm about ~1300) and I feel this way, as I posted in my pros/cons a couple posts up. I would assume there are a large chunk of players as knowledgeable as I am, since there are 15k-25k viewers between the different LoL streams at any given time (not even tournament, just regular streams).
Zhiroo
Profile Joined February 2011
Kosovo2724 Posts
March 21 2012 22:26 GMT
#20
Positives: Casting was good

Negatives: Can't think of anything that was negative.

I'm pleased too easy.
LoL EuW: Zhiroo - By starting this squabble you've proven nothing but how vast your stupidity is.
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