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Positives
+ Really really nice production. The start where they introduced they had the fancy zoom in on lanes and showed pics of players + names = really cool. With more well known players it could lead to some interesting discussion about how the lane goes.
+ Some of the most professional English casters for LoL... they might not be 2000+elo but they have casting experience and are comfortable and don't say really retarded shit
+ Loco is cool
+ Listening in on the team talk is cool... too bad I don't know KR... maybe when CLG plays it'll be really nice (there is the delay, but other tourneys can maybe record it so they can overlay it sometimes...)
Negatives
- Something I was thinking about for a while, maybe could get split-screen. When a fight happens in two different zones, it'd be nice to be able to watch both (like seen in the EG MCSL)
- Maybe show the lanes (the bit described in the first positive) after they pick so they can talk about lane matchups
- Obs... said before
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Postives
+ Production is nice. I like stuff like "Showing player faces" and introducing them as well as doing the split screen faces to show a matchup when the game is in progress. I'm not familiar with the korean scene and it is nice to put a face to the player in a particular lane.
+ Casting is good.
Negatives
- Sometimes obs misses stuff or they become too fancy and zoom to a player when a fight is gonna break out.
- Maybe reduce the KR commentary background noise.. ? (actually not sure about this.. I also wanna hear the audience so.. )
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Having the doom zoom is awesome in bw I always felt but it doesnt really work that well in lol when there's like a 30second delay.
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On March 22 2012 06:16 cuppatea wrote:
The casting is a big problem.
They seem to be tailoring it towards people who have never played LoL before, which is fine for the handful of BW fans on here tuning in because it's OGN but a real turn off to the thousands (surely tens of thousands when CLG play) of LoL fans tuning in because it's LoL. You can just compare and contrast the response to the casting on here, which is mostly warm, to the vitriol on r/leagueoflegends, which has a thread dedicated almost entirely to flaming the shit out of Moletrap.
Basically, if their goal is to keep a few dozen BW fans happy then they should keep doing what they're doing but if they want to tap in to the massive international LoL audience, they need to think about bringing in dedicated LoL casters rather than drafting in 2 SC guys to wing it.
Other than that the production was as good as you'd expect from OGN and it's nice to see they're actually bothering with an English cast, even if they don't seem to have put much thought into who's going to be watching it.
I never minded when they explained something simple as it was a very small portion of the commentating. They stopped to explain something simple occasionally but to me it felt like the majority of commentary was play-by-play which is fine. I find that people tend to pick out a few times where a newbie concept is explained and jump all over it and label the entire commentary as directed at newbies.
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On March 22 2012 07:16 Jdorty wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2012 06:46 how2TL wrote:On March 22 2012 06:16 cuppatea wrote:
The casting is a big problem.
They seem to be tailoring it towards people who have never played LoL before, which is fine for the handful of BW fans on here tuning in because it's OGN but a real turn off to the thousands (surely tens of thousands when CLG play) of LoL fans tuning in because it's LoL. You can just compare and contrast the response to the casting on here, which is mostly warm, to the vitriol on r/leagueoflegends, which has a thread dedicated almost entirely to flaming the shit out of Moletrap.
Basically, if their goal is to keep a few dozen BW fans happy then they should keep doing what they're doing but if they want to tap in to the massive international LoL audience, they need to think about bringing in dedicated LoL casters rather than drafting in 2 SC guys to wing it.
Other than that the production was as good as you'd expect from OGN and it's nice to see they're actually bothering with an English cast, even if they don't seem to have put much thought into who's going to be watching it. Reddit is a site devoted to the judging of people, places, ideas, and things. There's no reason to take a few people on there more seriously than anyone else. You have no idea about how many noobie viewers there were versus high level ones. And guess what, the majority of the "massive LoL audience" will probably not be 1500+ ELO just like the majority of people who watch SC2 are not in masters league. I'm not a high elo player (I'm about ~1300) and I feel this way, as I posted in my pros/cons a couple posts up. I would assume there are a large chunk of players as knowledgeable as I am, since there are 15k-25k viewers between the different LoL streams at any given time (not even tournament, just regular streams).
They can learn. They can get better at the game. Casters who are good at the game but can't commentate properly (stuttering, unable to maintain play-by-play, whatever) are actually useless.
This is their first LoL cast. Who knows when they found out that they would have that job. It wasn't their responsibility to know about every champion in every situation and every team's history until basically now. Give them a chance. Criticize constructively. That doesn't mean tear them down in their very first cast.
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On March 22 2012 09:06 how2TL wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2012 07:16 Jdorty wrote:On March 22 2012 06:46 how2TL wrote:On March 22 2012 06:16 cuppatea wrote:
The casting is a big problem.
They seem to be tailoring it towards people who have never played LoL before, which is fine for the handful of BW fans on here tuning in because it's OGN but a real turn off to the thousands (surely tens of thousands when CLG play) of LoL fans tuning in because it's LoL. You can just compare and contrast the response to the casting on here, which is mostly warm, to the vitriol on r/leagueoflegends, which has a thread dedicated almost entirely to flaming the shit out of Moletrap.
Basically, if their goal is to keep a few dozen BW fans happy then they should keep doing what they're doing but if they want to tap in to the massive international LoL audience, they need to think about bringing in dedicated LoL casters rather than drafting in 2 SC guys to wing it.
Other than that the production was as good as you'd expect from OGN and it's nice to see they're actually bothering with an English cast, even if they don't seem to have put much thought into who's going to be watching it. Reddit is a site devoted to the judging of people, places, ideas, and things. There's no reason to take a few people on there more seriously than anyone else. You have no idea about how many noobie viewers there were versus high level ones. And guess what, the majority of the "massive LoL audience" will probably not be 1500+ ELO just like the majority of people who watch SC2 are not in masters league. I'm not a high elo player (I'm about ~1300) and I feel this way, as I posted in my pros/cons a couple posts up. I would assume there are a large chunk of players as knowledgeable as I am, since there are 15k-25k viewers between the different LoL streams at any given time (not even tournament, just regular streams). They can learn. They can get better at the game. Casters who are good at the game but can't commentate properly (stuttering, unable to maintain play-by-play, whatever) are actually useless. This is their first LoL cast. Who knows when they found out that they would have that job. It wasn't their responsibility to know about every champion in every situation and every team's history until basically now. Give them a chance. Criticize constructively. That doesn't mean tear them down in their very first cast.
Which was exactly what my pros were in my pro/con post, if you read it. But they also several times commented on things that didn't make any sense, that were just simply not paying attention (like Janna dying). I also felt like they made what sounded like statements based on 'fact' but were just like "WTF?!". In those cases I'd rather they just didn't make those kind of comments, because its grating.
P.S. That's why I like Jatt, he knows his shit and is a better actual caster than most other pro LoL players.
I know its impossible since LoL hasn't been around as long, but I miss casters like Day 9, Tasteless, Artosis, and even pro players that cast at times - Grubby, Incontrol, Idra, Sheth.
Unfortunately also on average the pro LoL player seems much less social/more awkward than SC2 pro players.
Edit: I get the same feeling about these casters as I do about some SC2 casters (don't know their names, just know when I hear them I turn the volume off). The difference is SC2 has so many other awesome casters to draw from. Some of it's not even easily explainable, its just grating.
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Positives:
+the audio from the players during game // Super cool and makes me feel like i'm playing the game as them (Kinda like how halo has there insights in the players games)
+Like the commentary as an introduction to people playing League of legends!
Things needing Improvement
-Turn music off for players if ever/ it'll cause weird sounds during the look in for players
- korean is a little bit more important to know for casters now since there are clips in game with players.
*eventhough they have translaters for the english casts they probably need to get that more insync*
-Turn off in game sounds for Picks and bans select if you have sounds going around in the back.
Just small details, but as i expected just the usual from a great korean ran show! Hope to watch friday allthroughout not missing anything! =)
For the caster thing:
There isn't that Number one Caster or caster duo for Leagues right now; so it's pretty much any one that can do it try and do it.
The only people i'd consider to be the best as a duo is Joe Miller/Deman (not including riot people they have too much insight into the game). They are both casual to listen to, yet they bring attention to the major points of the game.
Moletrap/Torch did an okay job as casters (moletrap with a cold still talking that much was pretty strong) they said the necessary things, coulda been done a little bit more smoothly, but as a first try for them as a duo i don't think was bad at all.
There alot of things that need to be cleaned up and it's fine it'll happen. It's not like NASL was strong with casting when it began? So just give it some time =)
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Full disclosure, I only watched 1 game.
Positives
+ I like the way they have it set up and the general production value.
+ It's about time we got an insight into the Korean scene.
+
Negatives
- The casters really need to work on their game knowledge, none of them knew what the abilities were called (i.e. Veigar's "cage thingy" (it's called Event Horizon), 10 different names for Morgana's Dark Binding, etc.)
- Please mute the voicechat segments for the English stream, we can't understand them and all that happens is we hear the casters and the players talking over each other.
- The game is super focused on minimap awareness that goes away when you zoom in on one hero, stop doing that.
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On March 22 2012 03:38 Jdorty wrote:
Positives
+ Smooth streaming, good resolution (especially for a free stream)
+ Casters enthusiastics
+ Casters were good 'speakers'. Didn't stutter a lot and were easy to understand.
Negatives
- Camera wasn't always where it should be
- The casters' knowledge of the game was just terrible. I understand they may still be learning about LoL, but it really irks me when casters make statements that are simply false. Their knowledge really reminded me of the WC3 tournament that Tastless and Artosis cast when they had no idea what was going on, except in that case it was funny because it was intentional and they played off it.
- Kind of going hand in hand with the above, several times straight up incorrect calls were made. At one point a caster was exclaiming how Janna had barely survived with a sliver of health, when she had already been dead 5-10 seconds and you could clearly see her bright red respawn timer with 12 seconds remaining on the left side. He never corrected himself. This sort of general lack of awareness was abundant in all the games IMO.
If you refer to the dragon fight that happened like 10 minutes into the game, Janna did survive, she was killed by dragon like 30 seconds later
EDIT:
+ Nice production overall, thos graphs showing lane matchups and keepig track of bans we're pretty cool
+ Casting, they did a pretty good job keeping the game interesting even when you could see there was like a 10 k gold difference in the first game
- Observers, sometimes observes would lose track of what was happening on the map, a couple of times they had issues centering the camera.I'd say it was because they are used to arrow keys to scroll the map BW style.
I think it would be pretty useful to have a guy look at the minimap and let the casters know when something happens.
Example: Udyr is fighting Skarner by wraiths, this guy cound go "Skarner, Udyr, wraiths"
Since OGN already showed great quality in the production, I think this wouldn't be going too far.
-Too much idle time after picks and bans, I think this could be easily fixed by adding some random stats once the tournament has some rolling (like cs per game, kills and stuff)
Some camera work could be good too, showing the players and stuff.
Also make the players stand in front of the audience before the match, have them say a few words, some pre game hype and taunting wouldn't be bad I think
Great stuff by OGN with some minor things that just need some more broadcasts to fix. Keep up the awesome job!
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On March 22 2012 10:04 deth2munkies wrote:
Full disclosure, I only watched 1 game.
Positives
+ I like the way they have it set up and the general production value.
+ It's about time we got an insight into the Korean scene.
+
Negatives
- The casters really need to work on their game knowledge, none of them knew what the abilities were called (i.e. Veigar's "cage thingy" (it's called Event Horizon), 10 different names for Morgana's Dark Binding, etc.)
- Please mute the voicechat segments for the English stream, we can't understand them and all that happens is we hear the casters and the players talking over each other.
- The game is super focused on minimap awareness that goes away when you zoom in on one hero, stop doing that.
It's true that casters should know the proper names of stuff (which will be difficult given the huge number of champions with at least 4 abilities and a passive), but during a cast, for the sake of the audience, saying something like "Veigar manages to cage Alistar and Kennen" or "Morgana missed her stun" is probably fine. There needs to be some colloquialisms.
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On March 22 2012 10:41 how2TL wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2012 10:04 deth2munkies wrote:
Full disclosure, I only watched 1 game.
Positives
+ I like the way they have it set up and the general production value.
+ It's about time we got an insight into the Korean scene.
+
Negatives
- The casters really need to work on their game knowledge, none of them knew what the abilities were called (i.e. Veigar's "cage thingy" (it's called Event Horizon), 10 different names for Morgana's Dark Binding, etc.)
- Please mute the voicechat segments for the English stream, we can't understand them and all that happens is we hear the casters and the players talking over each other.
- The game is super focused on minimap awareness that goes away when you zoom in on one hero, stop doing that.
It's true that casters should know the proper names of stuff (which will be difficult given the huge number of champions with at least 4 abilities and a passive), but during a cast, for the sake of the audience, saying something like "Veigar manages to cage Alistar and Kennen" or "Morgana missed her stun" is probably fine. There needs to be some colloquialisms.
Obviously you can use several interchangeable phrases, but they kept stumbling over themselves and were unable to come up with the actual name.
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You can't have live feeds of the players faces, because there is a 30second delay to what the casters are seeing and what the players are seeing.
Either add a 30 second delay to any "live" cuts to players or just stop doing it completely.
EDIT: Also game sounds are way too loud, I can barely hear the other caster over game sounds and moletraps yelling.
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On March 22 2012 10:29 Painmaker wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2012 03:38 Jdorty wrote:
Positives
+ Smooth streaming, good resolution (especially for a free stream)
+ Casters enthusiastics
+ Casters were good 'speakers'. Didn't stutter a lot and were easy to understand.
Negatives
- Camera wasn't always where it should be
- The casters' knowledge of the game was just terrible. I understand they may still be learning about LoL, but it really irks me when casters make statements that are simply false. Their knowledge really reminded me of the WC3 tournament that Tastless and Artosis cast when they had no idea what was going on, except in that case it was funny because it was intentional and they played off it.
- Kind of going hand in hand with the above, several times straight up incorrect calls were made. At one point a caster was exclaiming how Janna had barely survived with a sliver of health, when she had already been dead 5-10 seconds and you could clearly see her bright red respawn timer with 12 seconds remaining on the left side. He never corrected himself. This sort of general lack of awareness was abundant in all the games IMO. If you refer to the dragon fight that happened like 10 minutes into the game, Janna did survive, she was killed by dragon like 30 seconds laterEDIT: + Nice production overall, thos graphs showing lane matchups and keepig track of bans we're pretty cool + Casting, they did a pretty good job keeping the game interesting even when you could see there was like a 10 k gold difference in the first game - Observers, sometimes observes would lose track of what was happening on the map, a couple of times they had issues centering the camera.I'd say it was because they are used to arrow keys to scroll the map BW style. I think it would be pretty useful to have a guy look at the minimap and let the casters know when something happens. Example: Udyr is fighting Skarner by wraiths, this guy cound go "Skarner, Udyr, wraiths" Since OGN already showed great quality in the production, I think this wouldn't be going too far. -Too much idle time after picks and bans, I think this could be easily fixed by adding some random stats once the tournament has some rolling (like cs per game, kills and stuff) Some camera work could be good too, showing the players and stuff. Also make the players stand in front of the audience before the match, have them say a few words, some pre game hype and taunting wouldn't be bad I think Great stuff by OGN with some minor things that just need some more broadcasts to fix. Keep up the awesome job!
When they said she escaped, she had been dead. I was literally staring at her death timer while he was talking about her getting away and it had already ticked for 5 seconds or so. I kept expecting a correction after the action died down, but nothing...
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Yeah, but they were referring to the moment when she was bursted but survived with little hp, after that she started doing dragon and was killed by it, you can see the graph showig it in the middle of the fight when rumble kept chasing people.
In any case, the caster forgot to say Janna was killed by dragon, but he was right when he said that she survived the initial fight with a sliver of health.
Also it wasn't really relevant, if you know the game, you'd have noticed she was killed by dragon.
And if you don't know the game, well, it's not really that important, Janna died to dragon, as in, Executed, so no gold to the enemy team either
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United States37500 Posts
Updated OP for Ro16 Group A Day 1 comments.
If you check this thread, have a gander in the spoilers. For today's matches (Ro16 Group A Day 2), pay attention for positives/negatives that have not been mentioned before. I'm positive the production today will be as good as Wednesday's. Look for new feedback if possible.
Thanks all! :3
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Positives
+ Production, excellent. A slight improvement could be showing the ELO head to head when they lanes are broken down in the graphics. Currently, only the names are shown. I know it's being fussy but it would be nice. ^^
+ Giving viewers insight into team chat. Eg, when we were zoomed in on locodoco and he was making some calls to his team. This is really cool, currently the translation is still not very clear cut, which is understandable for the first go, but there is something here that no other event has done and it is a huge +++.
Negatives
- OGN is always well known for the player cam zooms, and swapping away from the ingame screen to create a viewer impact. This was very well done, and much easier to accomplish in BW, as the game is arguably not as fast paced(i do not mean it is easier) as newer games. This can and should still be done, but more care must be taken, a few times this was done and a couple of semi-critical moments of game play was lost.
- Translation during winner's interviews could be brushed up slightly, again understandable for the first time. And the heroes of TL never fail to give an awesome translation soon afterwards anyways so it's not a big issue.
- Music / Audio effects and other sound stuff gets quite messy and unpleasant for the viewer at times, something that will probably improve down the line.
- Casters. Both casters are arguably play-by-play casters which some might agree is not ideal. Also, as much as i feel for moletrap for all the bashing he gets, he is still not at the level of an analytic LoL caster, and his play-by-play is still not stellar. For the mass viewing audience, the casting is still very up to par, and it could have gone a lot worse for what I'm assuming is to be their first time casting LoL at a major event. However, there is still massive room for improvement, watch/study some of the wonderful IEM duos, Deman + anyone is almost always a joy.
If possible, try to learn more about the individual players of the korean scene. Majority of the viewers are altogether new to the korean LoL scene except for the little insight locodoco has given to his international community. This is basically the korean scene's entrance into the international spotlight, any information is great. If i'm not mistaken it was cool to learn that Little Hippo's mid had carried them through the qualifiers, and he did show some of that when he was the only one in the LH v MiG game that sort of won his lane for his team. (Equal if not greater farm than Morg even in that matchup, not to mention MiG's jungle had way more pressure/pressence.)
Most of my negatives are just places to improve, overall I was very impressed by the event.
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I don't get why people are hyping the production quality of this so much.
After watching it today:
1) The Korean commentators are regularly heard shouting over the English commentators through the English commentator's mics. This is incredibly annoying and should be looked at, either get better mics or situate the commentators in a different area.
2) The casters still have very limited game knowledge. I heard Moletrap saying something about how they don't use ability names because they don't want to confuse people that don't play the game, but that's BS: saying the name of it right after it happens is teaching those people what it is, it's not confusing them. Saying "Morgana roots him with that Dark Binding." gives you more correct information than "Morgana stuns him." because you're telling them exactly what it is (root, not stun) and exactly what it's called (Dark Binding) with about an extra half second of exposition. And for the record, it's "Orb of Deception".
3) The stream repeatedly crashed, every time it did so, it looped commercials. I don't know if it's a twitch setting that they have wrong, but when the stream lags and drops out, I don't want to have to immediately have my ears blasted off by a commercial before refreshing several times.
More later, got class.
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Positives
+ HD Streaming, because I can actually read CS and item scores and see their summoners
+ The general production like pick/ban, cool 3D map and positions, showing stat comparison, player perspectives. The game score at the end would be nice too (expanding stat comparison to the entire team).
+ Interviews. I love when I get to hear about their perspective of the game.
Negatives
- Casters sometimes provide wrong information, or not fully explaining their commentating. Let them improve and get used to commentating LoL rather than criticizing them.
- Commercials and Streams. Watching the stream in own3d.tv and twitch.tv was choppy in the middle of MiG vs MKZ game, and there were occasional Ads that interfered with the game. When I went to Azubu official LoL website, registered, and then watched, no Ads and no choppy stream. In their 10 minute downtime for Korean viewers, Azubu stream had boring chart of the rebroadcast time. It would be good use of that 10 minutes of time to teach new LoL players about mechanics/champions/etc., or put 10 minutes of Ad to support esports, and casters can mention the rebroadcasting time when there isn't much action (before introducing the team, after game is done,).
- Observer. When you show first person perspective of the players, OGN decides to show it for a long time, even when some champions initiate on a champion. They need to quickly change back into the game if a champion initiates.
I see that I'm so bad at recognizing positive part of the tournament. 
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Last night I could only get the live stream through twitch.tv and it was totally shit, tried it on the lowest quality and it still lagged out. Please have it on own3d.tv
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On March 24 2012 09:06 Norada wrote:
Last night I could only get the live stream through twitch.tv and it was totally shit, tried it on the lowest quality and it still lagged out. Please have it on own3d.tv
it's always on both... twitch was fine but they had technical problems at the studio. therefore the lag
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EPT
