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On April 25 2012 22:19 seRapH wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 22:10 Mashes wrote:I recently started League as well, switching from Dota/HoN. I find myself playing AD carries a lot because I think my best skill is being able to cs and farm fairly effectively. I found this guide on reddit, and I was wondering if anyone has anything similar for like all heroes? Just a quick paragraph run down on what i should watch out for from each hero? thanks in advance! for all 90 some champions?... hoo.... I'll see if I have time to write a little bit up. edit: You are just looking for general tips against these champs, right? Not specific things like WHAT TO DO VS PANTHEON MID or PLAYING VS AD KENNEN.
I actually am really interested in the idea of a list of champions and what they do on a basic level. I think it would be very handy to take a quick peek at for newer players and know what kind of combos they will be trying to use and what you have to watch out for....I may just start writing one up. Seems like I could just add a few a day and it would be not so hard.
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On April 26 2012 08:31 sob3k wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 08:12 hkf wrote:
Given that you are sufficiently good MOBAs in general (with a lot of HON/DOTA experience at competitive levels), what is the best role (AD, AP, Support (hahaha), Jungle, Top solo) to play to achieve the highest winrate (and therefore highest IP+XP/time rate), assuming you can play all roles equally well? And what hero is the best to buy for the role? Everyone says Support has the least impact on the game, and it sure seems like that, but I have played a few hundred ranked matches and by far my highest winrate champion (67% win) is support soraka..
At nonranked below 30, would you still say the same would hold true? And wrt kills, does it make sense to start roaming after 2-3 kills on your lane, since DR on kill gold starts to kick in (worst feature in the entire game, imo, including the limitless wards and everyone-gets-a-blink), or would it be better to simply sit in your lane and farm your deathcap (for AP mid) or whatever item you want (top)?
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On April 26 2012 08:38 hkf wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 08:31 sob3k wrote:On April 26 2012 08:12 hkf wrote:
Given that you are sufficiently good MOBAs in general (with a lot of HON/DOTA experience at competitive levels), what is the best role (AD, AP, Support (hahaha), Jungle, Top solo) to play to achieve the highest winrate (and therefore highest IP+XP/time rate), assuming you can play all roles equally well? And what hero is the best to buy for the role? Everyone says Support has the least impact on the game, and it sure seems like that, but I have played a few hundred ranked matches and by far my highest winrate champion (67% win) is support soraka.. At nonranked below 30, would you still say the same would hold true? And wrt kills, does it make sense to start roaming after 2-3 kills on your lane, since DR on kill gold starts to kick in (worst feature in the entire game, imo, including the limitless wards and everyone-gets-a-blink), or would it be better to simply sit in your lane and farm your deathcap (for AP mid) or whatever item you want (top)?
I'm not really sure, its been a while since I played <30. I would tend to say avoid playing 0CS support until after 30, for the sheer fact that the most important thing you want to accomplish at that level is learning what all the champions do and how to play certain matchups, which support will teach you less of.
Roaming after kills depends on your champion and your lane opponent. If you can get 2-3 Kills in lane and your opponent is playing so poorly that you can continue to get kills, I wouldnt roam in 90% of situations. The DR from kills is really not as important as completely shutting down your lane opponent. You may be getting a bit less money but having them unable to farm and on respawn timer while you are still getting good farm AND the extra kill income will put you at an absolutely huge comparative advantage.
I would only decide to roam in a few situations
1. Your lane opponent is scared and tower hugging and you cant get more kills on them AND
2. Other lanes are vulnerable and you feel like you could go kill them pretty easily. AND/OR
3. You can clear the wave very fast, go gank another lane and be back in time for the next wave.
4. You secured a won lane in your lane, and other lanes really need your help, AND you feel you can help a lot.
until you have killed someone like 10 times dont even pay attention to the diminishing gold, it is still a huge advantage. If you get a real bad kid to lane against and are just slaughtering them, dont take tower and just farm them.
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On April 26 2012 08:12 hkf wrote:
Given that you are sufficiently good MOBAs in general (with a lot of HON/DOTA experience at competitive levels), what is the best role (AD, AP, Support (hahaha), Jungle, Top solo) to play to achieve the highest winrate (and therefore highest IP+XP/time rate), assuming you can play all roles equally well? And what hero is the best to buy for the role?
Choose a champion that can make plays, and punish mistakes. Generally this will mean having some form of CC to catch people who derp in positioning. However, playing assassin or high damage/burst champions can also work well since the best form of CC is death. The main idea is that when the other team does something wrong, you punish them hard for it, and your team can follow up on the plays you make. Some champions are not as good at making plays so choose depending on whether you feel like making plays, or following up on them.
On April 26 2012 08:38 hkf wrote:
At nonranked below 30, would you still say the same would hold true? And wrt kills, does it make sense to start roaming after 2-3 kills on your lane, since DR on kill gold starts to kick in (worst feature in the entire game, imo, including the limitless wards and everyone-gets-a-blink), or would it be better to simply sit in your lane and farm your deathcap (for AP mid) or whatever item you want (top)?
While playing my pre-30 account, I just play depending on how the game is going. If my team is doing fine, then I just sit in lane and afk farm. If my team isn't doing as well, I make an effort to push the wave and go roam and make plays. There's nothing wrong with kill gold scaling or free blinks if everyone has it. It's all about the risk-recovery balance. But even if you go roaming, remember to go back and keep farming your lane and not to leave it for long periods of time.
Anyway to use a game I had before as an example. Rumble top, I go 4-0 in 10 minutes. After taking top tower, I shove the lane to the second tower so I force top lane to stay there and then go to other lanes and force ganks to alleviate the burden on my team. At lower levels, lane dominance is often established through really random things rather than matchups, lane control, trades, etc that you would expect at higher levels. So coming in and interrupting the lane balance in the right way can really help re-correct it. A lot of players at the lower levels have bad map awareness and if you have a champion with a lot of influence you can generally outplay people. If you start a snowball going in a lane, generally that's enough to recover it for your team.
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On April 26 2012 09:23 Chiharu Harukaze wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 08:12 hkf wrote:
Given that you are sufficiently good MOBAs in general (with a lot of HON/DOTA experience at competitive levels), what is the best role (AD, AP, Support (hahaha), Jungle, Top solo) to play to achieve the highest winrate (and therefore highest IP+XP/time rate), assuming you can play all roles equally well? And what hero is the best to buy for the role? Choose a champion that can make plays, and punish mistakes. Generally this will mean having some form of CC to catch people who derp in positioning. However, playing assassin or high damage/burst champions can also work well since the best form of CC is death. The main idea is that when the other team does something wrong, you punish them hard for it, and your team can follow up on the plays you make. Some champions are not as good at making plays so choose depending on whether you feel like making plays, or following up on them.
I am aware of the qualities I need to look for, but I'm not familiar with 90 new heroes to make an informed dcision, so here's where you come in in telling me what to buy 
ie, I bought Kassadin and while he does snowball well and has a very very strong ult, his lack of a real CC (silence/slow are both weak ccs, esp now that I'm level 12, and opponents are starting to have flash) makes him quite susceptible to not being able to punish being oop.
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On April 26 2012 09:33 hkf wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 09:23 Chiharu Harukaze wrote:On April 26 2012 08:12 hkf wrote:
Given that you are sufficiently good MOBAs in general (with a lot of HON/DOTA experience at competitive levels), what is the best role (AD, AP, Support (hahaha), Jungle, Top solo) to play to achieve the highest winrate (and therefore highest IP+XP/time rate), assuming you can play all roles equally well? And what hero is the best to buy for the role? Choose a champion that can make plays, and punish mistakes. Generally this will mean having some form of CC to catch people who derp in positioning. However, playing assassin or high damage/burst champions can also work well since the best form of CC is death. The main idea is that when the other team does something wrong, you punish them hard for it, and your team can follow up on the plays you make. Some champions are not as good at making plays so choose depending on whether you feel like making plays, or following up on them. I am aware of the qualities I need to look for, but I'm not familiar with 90 new heroes to make an informed dcision, so here's where you come in in telling me what to buy ie, I bought Kassadin and while he does snowball well and has a very very strong ult, his lack of a real CC (silence/slow are both weak ccs, esp now that I'm level 12, and opponents are starting to have flash) makes him quite susceptible to not being able to punish being oop.
Kassadin should have absolutely no problem punishing anyone, his slow and silence are strong, but mostly the riftwalk allows you to jump on anyone instantly if they fuck up. You should be able to crush games with kassadin and snowball well.
The only issue with Kassadin is that he is a very specific counter to mage champs, so you really have to make sure you end up laning against them.
The most important thing about Kassadin dominance in lane is the silence and knowing the opponents cooldowns so you know when you can riftwalk on them and do massive damage and they wont be able to retaliate. Open up the league of legend wiki and take a look at your opponents cooldown times before the game, I still do this all the time.
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On April 26 2012 09:48 sob3k wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 09:33 hkf wrote:On April 26 2012 09:23 Chiharu Harukaze wrote:On April 26 2012 08:12 hkf wrote:
Given that you are sufficiently good MOBAs in general (with a lot of HON/DOTA experience at competitive levels), what is the best role (AD, AP, Support (hahaha), Jungle, Top solo) to play to achieve the highest winrate (and therefore highest IP+XP/time rate), assuming you can play all roles equally well? And what hero is the best to buy for the role? Choose a champion that can make plays, and punish mistakes. Generally this will mean having some form of CC to catch people who derp in positioning. However, playing assassin or high damage/burst champions can also work well since the best form of CC is death. The main idea is that when the other team does something wrong, you punish them hard for it, and your team can follow up on the plays you make. Some champions are not as good at making plays so choose depending on whether you feel like making plays, or following up on them. I am aware of the qualities I need to look for, but I'm not familiar with 90 new heroes to make an informed dcision, so here's where you come in in telling me what to buy ie, I bought Kassadin and while he does snowball well and has a very very strong ult, his lack of a real CC (silence/slow are both weak ccs, esp now that I'm level 12, and opponents are starting to have flash) makes him quite susceptible to not being able to punish being oop. The only issue with Kassadin is that he is a very specific counter to mage champs, so you really have to make sure you end up laning against them.
What would be a good hero for playing vs a ranged AD mid?
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On April 26 2012 10:54 hkf wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 09:48 sob3k wrote:On April 26 2012 09:33 hkf wrote:On April 26 2012 09:23 Chiharu Harukaze wrote:On April 26 2012 08:12 hkf wrote:
Given that you are sufficiently good MOBAs in general (with a lot of HON/DOTA experience at competitive levels), what is the best role (AD, AP, Support (hahaha), Jungle, Top solo) to play to achieve the highest winrate (and therefore highest IP+XP/time rate), assuming you can play all roles equally well? And what hero is the best to buy for the role? Choose a champion that can make plays, and punish mistakes. Generally this will mean having some form of CC to catch people who derp in positioning. However, playing assassin or high damage/burst champions can also work well since the best form of CC is death. The main idea is that when the other team does something wrong, you punish them hard for it, and your team can follow up on the plays you make. Some champions are not as good at making plays so choose depending on whether you feel like making plays, or following up on them. I am aware of the qualities I need to look for, but I'm not familiar with 90 new heroes to make an informed dcision, so here's where you come in in telling me what to buy ie, I bought Kassadin and while he does snowball well and has a very very strong ult, his lack of a real CC (silence/slow are both weak ccs, esp now that I'm level 12, and opponents are starting to have flash) makes him quite susceptible to not being able to punish being oop. The only issue with Kassadin is that he is a very specific counter to mage champs, so you really have to make sure you end up laning against them. What would be a good hero for playing vs a ranged AD mid?
Have your top bruiser come mid and just rape that poor guy. Then make sure you run AP top.
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On April 26 2012 10:54 hkf wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 09:48 sob3k wrote:On April 26 2012 09:33 hkf wrote:On April 26 2012 09:23 Chiharu Harukaze wrote:On April 26 2012 08:12 hkf wrote:
Given that you are sufficiently good MOBAs in general (with a lot of HON/DOTA experience at competitive levels), what is the best role (AD, AP, Support (hahaha), Jungle, Top solo) to play to achieve the highest winrate (and therefore highest IP+XP/time rate), assuming you can play all roles equally well? And what hero is the best to buy for the role? Choose a champion that can make plays, and punish mistakes. Generally this will mean having some form of CC to catch people who derp in positioning. However, playing assassin or high damage/burst champions can also work well since the best form of CC is death. The main idea is that when the other team does something wrong, you punish them hard for it, and your team can follow up on the plays you make. Some champions are not as good at making plays so choose depending on whether you feel like making plays, or following up on them. I am aware of the qualities I need to look for, but I'm not familiar with 90 new heroes to make an informed dcision, so here's where you come in in telling me what to buy ie, I bought Kassadin and while he does snowball well and has a very very strong ult, his lack of a real CC (silence/slow are both weak ccs, esp now that I'm level 12, and opponents are starting to have flash) makes him quite susceptible to not being able to punish being oop. The only issue with Kassadin is that he is a very specific counter to mage champs, so you really have to make sure you end up laning against them. What would be a good hero for playing vs a ranged AD mid?
Who was it? Ez? I've only ever seen Ashe and Ez there, and I think Ashe was there because of Derpage.
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On April 26 2012 13:02 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 10:54 hkf wrote:On April 26 2012 09:48 sob3k wrote:On April 26 2012 09:33 hkf wrote:On April 26 2012 09:23 Chiharu Harukaze wrote:On April 26 2012 08:12 hkf wrote:
Given that you are sufficiently good MOBAs in general (with a lot of HON/DOTA experience at competitive levels), what is the best role (AD, AP, Support (hahaha), Jungle, Top solo) to play to achieve the highest winrate (and therefore highest IP+XP/time rate), assuming you can play all roles equally well? And what hero is the best to buy for the role? Choose a champion that can make plays, and punish mistakes. Generally this will mean having some form of CC to catch people who derp in positioning. However, playing assassin or high damage/burst champions can also work well since the best form of CC is death. The main idea is that when the other team does something wrong, you punish them hard for it, and your team can follow up on the plays you make. Some champions are not as good at making plays so choose depending on whether you feel like making plays, or following up on them. I am aware of the qualities I need to look for, but I'm not familiar with 90 new heroes to make an informed dcision, so here's where you come in in telling me what to buy ie, I bought Kassadin and while he does snowball well and has a very very strong ult, his lack of a real CC (silence/slow are both weak ccs, esp now that I'm level 12, and opponents are starting to have flash) makes him quite susceptible to not being able to punish being oop. The only issue with Kassadin is that he is a very specific counter to mage champs, so you really have to make sure you end up laning against them. What would be a good hero for playing vs a ranged AD mid? Who was it? Ez? I've only ever seen Ashe and Ez there, and I think Ashe was there because of Derpage.
The range of randomness you see at low level games is very very very very wide.
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On April 26 2012 10:54 hkf wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 09:48 sob3k wrote:On April 26 2012 09:33 hkf wrote:On April 26 2012 09:23 Chiharu Harukaze wrote:On April 26 2012 08:12 hkf wrote:
Given that you are sufficiently good MOBAs in general (with a lot of HON/DOTA experience at competitive levels), what is the best role (AD, AP, Support (hahaha), Jungle, Top solo) to play to achieve the highest winrate (and therefore highest IP+XP/time rate), assuming you can play all roles equally well? And what hero is the best to buy for the role? Choose a champion that can make plays, and punish mistakes. Generally this will mean having some form of CC to catch people who derp in positioning. However, playing assassin or high damage/burst champions can also work well since the best form of CC is death. The main idea is that when the other team does something wrong, you punish them hard for it, and your team can follow up on the plays you make. Some champions are not as good at making plays so choose depending on whether you feel like making plays, or following up on them. I am aware of the qualities I need to look for, but I'm not familiar with 90 new heroes to make an informed dcision, so here's where you come in in telling me what to buy ie, I bought Kassadin and while he does snowball well and has a very very strong ult, his lack of a real CC (silence/slow are both weak ccs, esp now that I'm level 12, and opponents are starting to have flash) makes him quite susceptible to not being able to punish being oop. The only issue with Kassadin is that he is a very specific counter to mage champs, so you really have to make sure you end up laning against them. What would be a good hero for playing vs a ranged AD mid?
Any other AP Mid should do fine vs AD, its just Kassadin who has huge issues because he relies on his silence and has to CS at melee range.
usually longer range burst is good vs AD's, as they cant retaliate well and don't do good vs burst as they need time to deal sustained damage. So Ahri/Viktor/Brand/Xerath etc... but I would feel perfectly fine playing most mids vs AD. Annie will do fine, Malzahar, Veigar, Zilean, LB. Its just Kass and maybe Fizz who have a really hard time.
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On April 26 2012 09:33 hkf wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 09:23 Chiharu Harukaze wrote:On April 26 2012 08:12 hkf wrote:
Given that you are sufficiently good MOBAs in general (with a lot of HON/DOTA experience at competitive levels), what is the best role (AD, AP, Support (hahaha), Jungle, Top solo) to play to achieve the highest winrate (and therefore highest IP+XP/time rate), assuming you can play all roles equally well? And what hero is the best to buy for the role? Choose a champion that can make plays, and punish mistakes. Generally this will mean having some form of CC to catch people who derp in positioning. However, playing assassin or high damage/burst champions can also work well since the best form of CC is death. The main idea is that when the other team does something wrong, you punish them hard for it, and your team can follow up on the plays you make. Some champions are not as good at making plays so choose depending on whether you feel like making plays, or following up on them. I am aware of the qualities I need to look for, but I'm not familiar with 90 new heroes to make an informed dcision, so here's where you come in in telling me what to buy ie, I bought Kassadin and while he does snowball well and has a very very strong ult, his lack of a real CC (silence/slow are both weak ccs, esp now that I'm level 12, and opponents are starting to have flash) makes him quite susceptible to not being able to punish being oop.
mid or top
If you are a superior player to enemy toplane you crush and feed off of them and crush the rest of their team in teamfights (and gank mid / exert control over their top side jungle as needed or desired)
If you are mid you do the same except you maintain greater ability to affect bottom lane's development.
If you are confident in your skills and ability to punish weaker players lane bullies are the way to go. I think i have about a 23-2 record on garen top sub 1700 elo on alts, even without significant cc you are inherently tanky enough that you can just quickly kill enemies with pure damage items
I would recommend riven lee sin and renekton along with garen for crushing top
Mid lane bullies generally like excelling at trading but many lower level players tend to have either poor mana management or skillshot landing ability so even a small inherent disadvantage in a matchup can be overcome. Annie has a very consistent cc and damage combo and is easy to initiate with in case your team needs it, as well as being decent in lane with good trading ability and cc for setting up and escaping ganks.
Cass is a huge lane bully
Heck anyone works if you know when to play passive, just play passive when you're weak and aggressive when you are stronger (and are not afraid of ganks)
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On April 26 2012 13:47 sob3k wrote:
Any other AP Mid should do fine vs AD, its just Kassadin who has huge issues because he relies on his silence and has to CS at melee range.
usually longer range burst is good vs AD's, as they cant retaliate well and don't do good vs burst as they need time to deal sustained damage. So Ahri/Viktor/Brand/Xerath etc... but I would feel perfectly fine playing most mids vs AD. Annie will do fine, Malzahar, Veigar, Zilean, LB. Its just Kass and maybe Fizz who have a really hard time.
Interesting, will take that into account.
If you are confident in your skills and ability to punish weaker players lane bullies are the way to go. I think i have about a 23-2 record on garen top sub 1700 elo on alts, even without significant cc you are inherently tanky enough that you can just quickly kill enemies with pure damage items
Garen has been recommended to me a lot, although I'm not sure how much of a presence a no-cc hero can be... maybe I'm just spoilt by choice with every dota/hon hero having either a stun or a closer, sometimes both.
When you say 'stronger', how do you determine that? Since there is no deny your level should be the same regardless, do you just have to trade hits until they go back and heal, or zone them enough so that your CS is so superior that you have a key item much faster?
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On April 26 2012 14:06 hkf wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 13:47 sob3k wrote:
Any other AP Mid should do fine vs AD, its just Kassadin who has huge issues because he relies on his silence and has to CS at melee range.
usually longer range burst is good vs AD's, as they cant retaliate well and don't do good vs burst as they need time to deal sustained damage. So Ahri/Viktor/Brand/Xerath etc... but I would feel perfectly fine playing most mids vs AD. Annie will do fine, Malzahar, Veigar, Zilean, LB. Its just Kass and maybe Fizz who have a really hard time.
Interesting, will take that into account. Show nested quote +If you are confident in your skills and ability to punish weaker players lane bullies are the way to go. I think i have about a 23-2 record on garen top sub 1700 elo on alts, even without significant cc you are inherently tanky enough that you can just quickly kill enemies with pure damage items Garen has been recommended to me a lot, although I'm not sure how much of a presence a no-cc hero can be... maybe I'm just spoilt by choice with every dota/hon hero having either a stun or a closer, sometimes both. When you say 'stronger', how do you determine that? Since there is no deny your level should be the same regardless, do you just have to trade hits until they go back and heal, or zone them enough so that your CS is so superior that you have a key item much faster?
No way, with good zoning you should have much higher CS and experience than your lane opponent. They lose alot of experience healing in pool, being dead, and you should be able to zone them out of EXP range as well.
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On April 26 2012 14:25 sob3k wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 14:06 hkf wrote:On April 26 2012 13:47 sob3k wrote:
Any other AP Mid should do fine vs AD, its just Kassadin who has huge issues because he relies on his silence and has to CS at melee range.
usually longer range burst is good vs AD's, as they cant retaliate well and don't do good vs burst as they need time to deal sustained damage. So Ahri/Viktor/Brand/Xerath etc... but I would feel perfectly fine playing most mids vs AD. Annie will do fine, Malzahar, Veigar, Zilean, LB. Its just Kass and maybe Fizz who have a really hard time.
Interesting, will take that into account. If you are confident in your skills and ability to punish weaker players lane bullies are the way to go. I think i have about a 23-2 record on garen top sub 1700 elo on alts, even without significant cc you are inherently tanky enough that you can just quickly kill enemies with pure damage items Garen has been recommended to me a lot, although I'm not sure how much of a presence a no-cc hero can be... maybe I'm just spoilt by choice with every dota/hon hero having either a stun or a closer, sometimes both. When you say 'stronger', how do you determine that? Since there is no deny your level should be the same regardless, do you just have to trade hits until they go back and heal, or zone them enough so that your CS is so superior that you have a key item much faster? No way, with good zoning you should have much higher CS and experience than your lane opponent. They lose alot of experience healing in pool, being dead, and you should be able to zone them out of EXP range as well.
Assuming parity in exp, do you just assume that a weaker player would be less aggressive (worse reaction, less likely to start an autoattack trading war, won't use spells as efficiently) when laning 1v1? The concept of having really spammable spells for harass is still kinda foreign to me, coming from a background where creep aggro was really important in deciding trading situations and spells were mostly used as finishers/compartively big nukes as opposed to pokes.
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When Navi says stronger he means when your champion is comparatively stronger than their champion. Now this requires a lot of game knowledge of your champions power curve compared to theirs, so it kind of come with experience.
So for example say there are two players laning against one another top both with relatively popular bruisers top: Player A is Lee Sin, and player B is Irelia. Lee Sin is a champion that is really strong 1v1 in the early game and through to the mid game but starts to fall off once it gets to the late game where suddenly skills start to do less damage and he is more of a tank. Irelia on the other hand is a champion who is bad early on and slowly becomes more and more powerful as the game goes on, really starting to hit her stride in the late game. Early on, if Lee Sin forces fights he is going to win the trade everytime because he flat out does more damage and has equal sustain; all Irelia can really do is play passively and farm while avoiding LeeSin in a 1v1 combat until it hits the lategame, waiting for him to push so you can farm at Tower.
Thing is it is much easier to be the guy who has the champion that is much stronger early game because any time the weaker champion makes a mistake you can force a trade and gain an advantage. On the other hand, when the stronger champion makes a mistake the weaker champion is unable to punish it because at that point in time they lose trades.
(NOTE: I havn't played irelia since her nerfs, but I am fairly sure she is still strong late game and just suffers during lane... but I am not 100% sure.)
The other thing is that if you play the weaker champion your biggest advantage (being relatively ungankable, and your lane opponent being gankable) relies on your team intervening which is kind of a disadvantage at low level play and in Solo Queue.
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On April 26 2012 15:09 iCanada wrote:
When Navi says stronger he means when your champion is comparatively stronger than their champion. Now this requires a lot of game knowledge of your champions power curve compared to theirs, so it kind of come with experience.
So for example say there are two players laning against one another top both with relatively popular bruisers top: Player A is Lee Sin, and player B is Irelia. Lee Sin is a champion that is really strong 1v1 in the early game and through to the mid game but starts to fall off once it gets to the late game where suddenly skills start to do less damage and he is more of a tank. Irelia on the other hand is a champion who is bad early on and slowly becomes more and more powerful as the game goes on, really starting to hit her stride in the late game. Early on, if Lee Sin forces fights he is going to win the trade everytime because he flat out does more damage and has equal sustain; all Irelia can really do is play passively and farm while avoiding LeeSin in a 1v1 combat until it hits the lategame, waiting for him to push so you can farm at Tower.
Thing is it is much easier to be the guy who has the champion that is much stronger early game because any time the weaker champion makes a mistake you can force a trade and gain an advantage. On the other hand, when the stronger champion makes a mistake the weaker champion is unable to punish it because at that point in time they lose trades.
(NOTE: I havn't played irelia since her nerfs, but I am fairly sure she is still strong late game and just suffers during lane... but I am not 100% sure.)
The other thing is that if you play the weaker champion your biggest advantage (being relatively ungankable, and your lane opponent being gankable) relies on your team intervening which is kind of a disadvantage at low level play and in Solo Queue.
Except at sub-30 this is basically irrelevant in most situations, as whoever has better basic gameplay will come out way ahead no matter the matchup. I have beaten Caitlyn mid with Kassadin etc.
I'm not really sure what hkf is asking anyway about stronger, he should clarify his question
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On April 26 2012 22:11 sob3k wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 15:09 iCanada wrote:
When Navi says stronger he means when your champion is comparatively stronger than their champion. Now this requires a lot of game knowledge of your champions power curve compared to theirs, so it kind of come with experience.
So for example say there are two players laning against one another top both with relatively popular bruisers top: Player A is Lee Sin, and player B is Irelia. Lee Sin is a champion that is really strong 1v1 in the early game and through to the mid game but starts to fall off once it gets to the late game where suddenly skills start to do less damage and he is more of a tank. Irelia on the other hand is a champion who is bad early on and slowly becomes more and more powerful as the game goes on, really starting to hit her stride in the late game. Early on, if Lee Sin forces fights he is going to win the trade everytime because he flat out does more damage and has equal sustain; all Irelia can really do is play passively and farm while avoiding LeeSin in a 1v1 combat until it hits the lategame, waiting for him to push so you can farm at Tower.
Thing is it is much easier to be the guy who has the champion that is much stronger early game because any time the weaker champion makes a mistake you can force a trade and gain an advantage. On the other hand, when the stronger champion makes a mistake the weaker champion is unable to punish it because at that point in time they lose trades.
(NOTE: I havn't played irelia since her nerfs, but I am fairly sure she is still strong late game and just suffers during lane... but I am not 100% sure.)
The other thing is that if you play the weaker champion your biggest advantage (being relatively ungankable, and your lane opponent being gankable) relies on your team intervening which is kind of a disadvantage at low level play and in Solo Queue. Except at sub-30 this is basically irrelevant in most situations, as whoever has better basic gameplay will come out way ahead no matter the matchup. I have beaten Caitlyn mid with Kassadin etc. I'm not really sure what hkf is asking anyway about stronger, he should clarify his question
In navi's post he made various references to being 'stronger' or 'weaker', and I can't assume that's just a hp thing.
Anyways bought and played a few games with Garen last night, he seems quite good in lane (SPAM ALL THE THINGS), can push and farm quite easily as well as harass and zone your opponent from getting too much farm, and has decent presence mid-midlateish, he does suffer from being kited... this game needs a bkb
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On April 27 2012 07:49 hkf wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 22:11 sob3k wrote:On April 26 2012 15:09 iCanada wrote:
When Navi says stronger he means when your champion is comparatively stronger than their champion. Now this requires a lot of game knowledge of your champions power curve compared to theirs, so it kind of come with experience.
So for example say there are two players laning against one another top both with relatively popular bruisers top: Player A is Lee Sin, and player B is Irelia. Lee Sin is a champion that is really strong 1v1 in the early game and through to the mid game but starts to fall off once it gets to the late game where suddenly skills start to do less damage and he is more of a tank. Irelia on the other hand is a champion who is bad early on and slowly becomes more and more powerful as the game goes on, really starting to hit her stride in the late game. Early on, if Lee Sin forces fights he is going to win the trade everytime because he flat out does more damage and has equal sustain; all Irelia can really do is play passively and farm while avoiding LeeSin in a 1v1 combat until it hits the lategame, waiting for him to push so you can farm at Tower.
Thing is it is much easier to be the guy who has the champion that is much stronger early game because any time the weaker champion makes a mistake you can force a trade and gain an advantage. On the other hand, when the stronger champion makes a mistake the weaker champion is unable to punish it because at that point in time they lose trades.
(NOTE: I havn't played irelia since her nerfs, but I am fairly sure she is still strong late game and just suffers during lane... but I am not 100% sure.)
The other thing is that if you play the weaker champion your biggest advantage (being relatively ungankable, and your lane opponent being gankable) relies on your team intervening which is kind of a disadvantage at low level play and in Solo Queue. Except at sub-30 this is basically irrelevant in most situations, as whoever has better basic gameplay will come out way ahead no matter the matchup. I have beaten Caitlyn mid with Kassadin etc. I'm not really sure what hkf is asking anyway about stronger, he should clarify his question In navi's post he made various references to being 'stronger' or 'weaker', and I can't assume that's just a hp thing. Anyways bought and played a few games with Garen last night, he seems quite good in lane (SPAM ALL THE THINGS), can push and farm quite easily as well as harass and zone your opponent from getting too much farm, and has decent presence mid-midlateish, he does suffer from being kited... this game needs a bkb
Lol BKB is Morgana shield.
Hope you like Garen, I cant stand him at all but whatevs
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Garen's a horrible first choice. People say he's good for beginners but no one plays meta when they're just starting and garen gets shit on by anyone with range, stuns, snares, and wards.
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EPT
