EPTJarman and Shyv are 2 different types of jungle anyway. Jarman would work instead of lee sin, to make the same overplayed comparison.
[Patch 1.0.0.132: Sejuani] General Discussion - Page 64
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
Jarman and Shyv are 2 different types of jungle anyway. Jarman would work instead of lee sin, to make the same overplayed comparison. | ||
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Craton
United States17250 Posts
On January 21 2012 16:08 sylverfyre wrote: Yeah, and the manacost buffs should help him with his soft reliance on 2nd/3rd blue buffs. It helps a little, but he feels almost identical in the jungle as he did before. | ||
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
On January 21 2012 16:09 Two_DoWn wrote: Meh, Im probably the only person on tl who doesnt love playing Jarman. Probably gonna just have to go back to playing phoenix udyr when I want at tank jungle, unless I can figure out how to get damage onto sejuani. Damage on Sejuani don't exist unless you are stupidly fed. I don't understand why no one builds Lich Bane on Galio... it is like everything he needs: Mana, AP, huge damage bonuses. It really makes his kit come together it you run at them with W on, hit em, E and hit em then Q them. If you get it relatively early it just wrecks everything, especially since it is only like 600 gold more than RoA (which almost everyone grabs on him) and it makes you such a monster during the mid game it isn't even funny. Speaking of Galio, why the hell does no one play him in the first place? If I were to place him in the relative scale of power I'd put on the higher side. He shits on any AP caster so hard it almost isn't even funny... best part is half the people in solo queue have no idea about this until their AP carry is ridiculously under-farmed and usually feeding galio a kill everytime his ult is up. | ||
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barbsq
United States5348 Posts
On January 21 2012 11:48 nyxnyxnyx wrote: thought this might be interesting to some of you tom 'zileas' cadwell's presentation on design (lots of examples from LoL) http://twvideo01.ubm-us.net/o1/vault/gdconline11/Tom_Cadwell_Design_Designers Are Human.pdf i can't seem to access this for w/e reason, but it looks like a pdf and therefore reading? so for those who'd rather watch/listen it it's also available here: http://gdcvault.com/play/1015033/Designers-are-Human-Too-Causes | ||
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Kaniol
Poland5551 Posts
On January 21 2012 16:11 Craton wrote: It helps a little, but he feels almost identical in the jungle as he did before. Agreed, he is still very very strong while not being completly OP | ||
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BigKahunaBurger
Australia334 Posts
Every premade I face these days has some combination of Kennen, Fiddlesticks, Gangplank, Morgana, Jarvan, Shyvana or someone with a complete facewrecking combo. I understand the stategy of forcing ults and peeling off champions seperately, but honestly, if the enemy team if good, you cant touch them at all and get torn apart. Any thoughts? | ||
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Cloud
Sexico5880 Posts
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On January 21 2012 16:19 iCanada wrote: Damage on Sejuani don't exist unless you are stupidly fed. I don't understand why no one builds Lich Bane on Galio... it is like everything he needs: Mana, AP, huge damage bonuses. It really makes his kit come together it you run at them with W on, hit em, E and hit em then Q them. If you get it relatively early it just wrecks everything, especially since it is only like 600 gold more than RoA (which almost everyone grabs on him) and it makes you such a monster during the mid game it isn't even funny. Speaking of Galio, why the hell does no one play him in the first place? If I were to place him in the relative scale of power I'd put on the higher side. He shits on any AP caster so hard it almost isn't even funny... best part is half the people in solo queue have no idea about this until their AP carry is ridiculously under-farmed and usually feeding galio a kill everytime his ult is up. I like galio as well, but here are some major reasons as to why he's fallen out of favor. 1) people are stubborn to move out of the current meta, of bruiser top, ap mid, jungler, ad/support bot. 2) he has no mobility, very lacking compared to a lot of ap mids, ergo strong ganks on either top or bot lane are out of the question, despite teh fact he can clear waves of minions easily. 3)his ulti cooldown is really long, similar to the amumu cooldown problem, it's an amazingly powerful ult, however the cd is really long, and if team fight is forced while your cooldown is up, your team is severely lacking that. 4) most games you play are probably solo q games, ergo slower communication, that means big aoe stuns like this are a huge risk if your team doesn't engage. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On January 21 2012 16:58 BigKahunaBurger wrote: Is the new meta going 4 champs with AoE ults and a tank? Because quite honestly this is the most OP and unfair thing I have encountered thus far. Teamfights become a complete wash over because of the ults and you simply cannot come out on top if facing a team with some form of cohesion. Every premade I face these days has some combination of Kennen, Fiddlesticks, Gangplank, Morgana, Jarvan, Shyvana or someone with a complete facewrecking combo. I understand the stategy of forcing ults and peeling off champions seperately, but honestly, if the enemy team if good, you cant touch them at all and get torn apart. Any thoughts? Play Janna, poop all over aoe's. play gragas, poop and piss all over aoe's | ||
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BigKahunaBurger
Australia334 Posts
On January 21 2012 17:09 wei2coolman wrote: Play Janna, poop all over aoe's. play gragas, poop and piss all over aoe's The problem with this is you're just listing champions with ults that counter other ults. If you're solo queuing, you basically confine yourself to playing 2 characters for fear of facing an ultimate AoE team. Are there any strategies that could be used, or can you only split push and hope you can get their top inhib before they push your nexus? | ||
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Treadmill
Canada2833 Posts
On January 21 2012 17:15 BigKahunaBurger wrote: The problem with this is you're just listing champions with ults that counter other ults. If you're solo queuing, you basically confine yourself to playing 2 characters for fear of facing an ultimate AoE team. Are there any strategies that could be used, or can you only split push and hope you can get their top inhib before they push your nexus? No you don't. You pick and couterpick; if you see them going heavy AoE take characters that can deal with it. If they aren't you can go other characters. And it isn't just two champs that do well against AoE, though gragas and janna may be the best. | ||
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JackDino
Gabon6219 Posts
On January 21 2012 17:25 Treadmill wrote: No you don't. You pick and couterpick; if you see them going heavy AoE take characters that can deal with it. If they aren't you can go other characters. And it isn't just two champs that do well against AoE, though gragas and janna may be the best. You don't need to counterpick, just make sure you never counterpick yourself. Counterpicking the enemy is overrated. | ||
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benefluence
United States158 Posts
On January 21 2012 17:25 Treadmill wrote: No you don't. You pick and couterpick; if you see them going heavy AoE take characters that can deal with it. If they aren't you can go other characters. And it isn't just two champs that do well against AoE, though gragas and janna may be the best. I presume he's talking about normals | ||
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
On January 21 2012 17:09 wei2coolman wrote: Play Janna, poop all over aoe's. play gragas, poop and piss all over aoe's Build Zhonyas, laugh at displacements. | ||
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rwrzr
United States1980 Posts
AP: Kennen, Morgana, Viktor, Galio, Orianna, Cass, Anivia, Fizz, Sona, Vlad, Maokai, Lux, Karthus, Xerath Jungle: Nunu, Fiddle, Jarman, Amumu, Xin Zhao Other: GP, Rumble, Graves, Sejuani, Wukong, Miss Fortune, Ezreal Not to sound like a broken record but if you don't have an AoE clusterfuck team then pick your teamfights wisely. SILVERLINING!!!!!! I only listed Champions who had significant AoE Teamfight Ultimates. The fact that there are so many champions means that there are many "viable" and "fun" champions that you can play in almost any role which contributes to your team's AOE Potential. EDIT: Added Champs | ||
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starfries
Canada3508 Posts
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overt
United States9006 Posts
On January 21 2012 16:19 iCanada wrote: Speaking of Galio, why the hell does no one play him in the first place? If I were to place him in the relative scale of power I'd put on the higher side. He shits on any AP caster so hard it almost isn't even funny... best part is half the people in solo queue have no idea about this until their AP carry is ridiculously under-farmed and usually feeding galio a kill everytime his ult is up. Probably because he's not as easy as most other APs. The only pro NA players that I have ever even seen play Galio are Voyboy and HotshotGG. I think someone on Curse might play him some (maybe Pobelter?). Like, his Q is harder to land than a lot of other AP carry's skills and he doesn't have the burst to outright kill someone nor is he a sustain DPS AP like Cass or Vlad. I just don't think he appeals to most people who play AP mid's play styles. | ||
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BigKahunaBurger
Australia334 Posts
On January 21 2012 17:57 rwrzr wrote: If the enemy team is deadset on an AOE teamcomp you are going to face some kind of AOE team regardless of your bans. Evidence (Pure AoE Ulti Team Options): AP: Kennen, Morgana, Viktor, Galio, Orianna, Cass, Anivia, Fizz, Sona, Vlad, Maokai, Lux, Karthus, Xerath Jungle: Nunu, Fiddle, Jarman, Amumu, Xin Zhao Other: GP, Rumble, Graves, Sejuani, Wukong, Miss Fortune, Ezreal Not to sound like a broken record but if you don't have an AoE clusterfuck team then pick your teamfights wisely. SILVERLINING!!!!!! I only listed Champions who had significant AoE Teamfight Ultimates. The fact that there are so many champions means that there are many "viable" and "fun" champions that you can play in almost any role which contributes to your team's AOE Potential. EDIT: Added Champs This is a nice list and I appreciate the effort you've put into it, but my main gripe isn't with the mechanic of AoE itself and how everyone has it, but rather with select champions who when mixed together are nigh on untouchable. Maokai's ult is AoE sure, but you can walk out of it easily enough. Ezreal sort of has AoE, but it's very hit and miss. Xin Zhao has a powerful AoE, but it relies on enemies being with melee range. Keep in mind that as a result of AoE being so potent when you are clumped, you by default cannot fight in areas such as the jungle or in tight lane areas. You become heavily restricted in your choice of battleground and have to choose your fights carefully, whereas the AoE team will roll around in a pack ready to go whenever. Really the huge combos I would say are Kennen, Fiddlesticks, GP, Amumu and other kinds of direct damage and slows/stuns. Fiddle for instance is easy enough to dodge, but combined with Kennens stun, it is extremely difficult to escape. If you try to focus either down, the AoE of the other will get you. Combined with the slow and damage of GP, it turns very messy very quickly. Then Jarvan jumps on you. Or Shyvana flies in. The solution to this would be of course, not to try and chase down Kennen or Fiddle and stop focusing people. Just try to out AoE the other team. (See suggestions of Gragas and Janna). This goes back to my main point: Is this what the game is evolving into? An AoE fest? Considering the last 8 or so champions have had high impact AoE ultimates, perhaps it is. Obviously you can shut all of these champions down early game, but late game team fights completely skew in the favour of the team with a lot of AoE. Either you get the early surrender, or they hold out to win the teamfights. The fact that no items can help, nor any clear but strategy troubles me. | ||
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Hidden_MotiveS
Canada2562 Posts
I recall someone said that dyrus said the easiest way to gain rank was to make an AoE team and just rape teamfights. Most of the scary AoE's with exceptions (garen, wukong, etc..) are magic damage. MR goes a long way. | ||
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Bladeorade
United States1898 Posts
Kennen and FIddle flash ulted into you? NP cy@ , Oh Shyvana fly in while you guys are focusing on the AP's? NP Lee Sin kick to the face. Or Janna flash ultimate, Alistar, Skarner I can't think of others but there are ways to fight vs AoE comps without relying on AoE yourself. AoE is just faceroll | ||
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