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[Patch 1.0.0.132: Sejuani] General Discussion - Page 25

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Public Service Announcement
Use the Champion threads whenever appropriate.
Don't use General Discussion simply out of ease.
=====
If you want to whine about server lag, use the QQ thread. We all suffer alike when Riot servers kaput. No need to make a post about it in GD.
BluzMan
Profile Blog Joined April 2006
Russian Federation4235 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-18 06:37:43
January 18 2012 06:34 GMT
#481
Like I already said, I'm pretty sure that wriggleforce into pure tank is the right way to play Jax now. But I will actually have to test this out. Seriously, fuck gunblade and, god-forbid, rageblade, those items make no sense now. With a 3 sec CD autoattack modifier, I see no reason to ever not build Sheen in your items, it's just too much free damage.
You want 20 good men, but you need a bad pussy.
Hidden_MotiveS
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Canada2562 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-18 06:39:05
January 18 2012 06:35 GMT
#482
On January 18 2012 15:27 Skithiryx wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 18 2012 14:59 Hidden_MotiveS wrote:
On January 18 2012 14:02 Skithiryx wrote:
On January 18 2012 13:57 Hidden_MotiveS wrote:
I played all the free champs this week that I don't normally own.
Correct me on what I'm wrong with, but I feel like I have a much better feel for all the champions.

I feel like renekton is rather easy to counter in lane now. Stay out of the range of his slice and dice. Ward bushes if you need to. He's still scary in teamfights but his damage drops off considerably after the first 3 seconds of a standard teamfight.
Kassadin can't farm under tower (well he can use his W for 5 seconds... but I don't think people max this) and has no health sustain. MR or being underfed prevent kass from instagibbing anyone.
Shyvana seems to be really strong, but her only attack that can hit far away is her E and you can just hide behind minions for that. She gets really fast with her w, and she can burst squishies down fast. It should be easy to escape from her and harass her in lane. She's really tanky and not afraid to dive you under tower. I don't know what I'd do against her in a teamfight o_0
Vayne. Wow vayne is so strong. I want to buy her! I can see how people carry so hard with her now. I have a better feel for the range of her condemn knockback.


Alot of Renektons issues i've been getting around just by jungling him, I'm not sure why it's not seen more he has really fast clear times, stays pretty high and red+w leads to very stronk ganks, he does have an issue with lack of resists but he can still get pretty tanky and just become a throw away initiate at worst.

Yeah he seems like a jungle champion. But he has no slow...

On January 18 2012 14:41 sermokala wrote:
played against mundo solo top with cho and it was so disheartening to see him regen so much no matter how much I harassed him.

He epic farmed with the cleaver and made my life a living hell for 16 minutes until laning ended.

I'm sure the mundo was pissed at you too. You healed every time you killed a minion :p


You generally always have red buff and even if not getting a Phage isn't that expensive and you can just go Atmallet instead of Atmogs...

That works. BTW isn't it pronounced fratmas?

I would probably still get wriggles first though, and by the time phage were finished, a lot of the potential ganking period would have passed. I've never seen a renekton gank, but if udyr can be god tier with no slow, then I guess renekton can gank too. Just don't waste an exhaust.
starfries
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada3508 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-18 06:41:15
January 18 2012 06:38 GMT
#483
Building pure tank on Jax wastes that delicious scaling boost from his ult though. I don't think it's BAD, but it sounds kind of like building atmog's on Riven.

edit: agreed on Sheen though, sounds awesome.

On January 18 2012 15:35 Hidden_MotiveS wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 18 2012 15:27 Skithiryx wrote:
On January 18 2012 14:59 Hidden_MotiveS wrote:
On January 18 2012 14:02 Skithiryx wrote:
On January 18 2012 13:57 Hidden_MotiveS wrote:
I played all the free champs this week that I don't normally own.
Correct me on what I'm wrong with, but I feel like I have a much better feel for all the champions.

I feel like renekton is rather easy to counter in lane now. Stay out of the range of his slice and dice. Ward bushes if you need to. He's still scary in teamfights but his damage drops off considerably after the first 3 seconds of a standard teamfight.
Kassadin can't farm under tower (well he can use his W for 5 seconds... but I don't think people max this) and has no health sustain. MR or being underfed prevent kass from instagibbing anyone.
Shyvana seems to be really strong, but her only attack that can hit far away is her E and you can just hide behind minions for that. She gets really fast with her w, and she can burst squishies down fast. It should be easy to escape from her and harass her in lane. She's really tanky and not afraid to dive you under tower. I don't know what I'd do against her in a teamfight o_0
Vayne. Wow vayne is so strong. I want to buy her! I can see how people carry so hard with her now. I have a better feel for the range of her condemn knockback.


Alot of Renektons issues i've been getting around just by jungling him, I'm not sure why it's not seen more he has really fast clear times, stays pretty high and red+w leads to very stronk ganks, he does have an issue with lack of resists but he can still get pretty tanky and just become a throw away initiate at worst.

Yeah he seems like a jungle champion. But he has no slow...

On January 18 2012 14:41 sermokala wrote:
played against mundo solo top with cho and it was so disheartening to see him regen so much no matter how much I harassed him.

He epic farmed with the cleaver and made my life a living hell for 16 minutes until laning ended.

I'm sure the mundo was pissed at you too. You healed every time you killed a minion :p


You generally always have red buff and even if not getting a Phage isn't that expensive and you can just go Atmallet instead of Atmogs...

That works. BTW isn't it pronounced fratmas?

Atma's Mallet or Frozen Impaler imo
DJ – do you like ramen, Savior? Savior – not really. Bisu – I eat it often. Flash – I’m a maniac! | Foxer Fighting!
BlackPaladin
Profile Joined May 2010
United States9316 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-18 06:41:07
January 18 2012 06:38 GMT
#484
You can compare the new champ to nunu, leona, or maokai. Basically everything they have scales off AP but they play better as tanky support type champs with CDR and tankiness.

And WHYYYYYY would you build frozen mallet or rylais on a champ that has like, 17 slows in their kit already????
I'm probably along the lines of soniv of overvaluing rylais at times but seriously, wth? Yo man, i heard you like slows so i'll slow you with my slow while my slow slows slow.
"Your full potential does not matter if you do not use all 100% of it."
Two_DoWn
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States13684 Posts
January 18 2012 06:40 GMT
#485
On January 18 2012 15:38 BlackPaladin wrote:
You can compare the new champ to nunu or mao. Basically everything they have scales off AP but they play better as tanky support type champs.

And WHYYYYYY would you build frozen mallet or rylais on a champ that has like, 17 slows in their kit already????
I'm probably along the lines of soniv of overvaluing rylais at times but seriously, wth?

Literally the only reason I could think of to get rylais would be if a rylais w lets you trigger permafrost. Even then, just hit a q and save yourself 3k gold.
"What is the air speed velocity of an unladen courier?" "Dire or Radiant?"
Hidden_MotiveS
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Canada2562 Posts
January 18 2012 06:43 GMT
#486
On January 18 2012 15:38 BlackPaladin wrote:
You can compare the new champ to nunu, leona, or maokai. Basically everything they have scales off AP but they play better as tanky support type champs with CDR and tankiness.

And WHYYYYYY would you build frozen mallet or rylais on a champ that has like, 17 slows in their kit already????
I'm probably along the lines of soniv of overvaluing rylais at times but seriously, wth?

Slows stack multiplicatively. Dodge used to stack multiplicatively too. In my opinion there is no negative impact on having more slow. It's not completely stupid.

Still, no one ever just went dodge, they would build armor and dodge to counter AD.
No AD carry ever just built damage, they'd build damage, crit, and attack speed.

It's kinda the same with sejuani. I agree with you, I think her ganks would be more successful with more AD than with more slow.
Skithiryx
Profile Joined August 2010
Australia648 Posts
January 18 2012 06:44 GMT
#487
On January 18 2012 15:35 Hidden_MotiveS wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 18 2012 15:27 Skithiryx wrote:
On January 18 2012 14:59 Hidden_MotiveS wrote:
On January 18 2012 14:02 Skithiryx wrote:
On January 18 2012 13:57 Hidden_MotiveS wrote:
I played all the free champs this week that I don't normally own.
Correct me on what I'm wrong with, but I feel like I have a much better feel for all the champions.

I feel like renekton is rather easy to counter in lane now. Stay out of the range of his slice and dice. Ward bushes if you need to. He's still scary in teamfights but his damage drops off considerably after the first 3 seconds of a standard teamfight.
Kassadin can't farm under tower (well he can use his W for 5 seconds... but I don't think people max this) and has no health sustain. MR or being underfed prevent kass from instagibbing anyone.
Shyvana seems to be really strong, but her only attack that can hit far away is her E and you can just hide behind minions for that. She gets really fast with her w, and she can burst squishies down fast. It should be easy to escape from her and harass her in lane. She's really tanky and not afraid to dive you under tower. I don't know what I'd do against her in a teamfight o_0
Vayne. Wow vayne is so strong. I want to buy her! I can see how people carry so hard with her now. I have a better feel for the range of her condemn knockback.


Alot of Renektons issues i've been getting around just by jungling him, I'm not sure why it's not seen more he has really fast clear times, stays pretty high and red+w leads to very stronk ganks, he does have an issue with lack of resists but he can still get pretty tanky and just become a throw away initiate at worst.

Yeah he seems like a jungle champion. But he has no slow...

On January 18 2012 14:41 sermokala wrote:
played against mundo solo top with cho and it was so disheartening to see him regen so much no matter how much I harassed him.

He epic farmed with the cleaver and made my life a living hell for 16 minutes until laning ended.

I'm sure the mundo was pissed at you too. You healed every time you killed a minion :p


You generally always have red buff and even if not getting a Phage isn't that expensive and you can just go Atmallet instead of Atmogs...

That works. BTW isn't it pronounced fratmas?

I would probably still get wriggles first though, and by the time phage were finished, a lot of the potential ganking period would have passed. I've never seen a renekton gank, but if udyr can be god tier with no slow, then I guess renekton can gank too. Just don't waste an exhaust.


In general I tend to start Cloth+5 > Boots 1 > Razors/Wriggles > Phage > Boots 2/Bruta > Atmas > Mallet > Tanky

He can do alot of cool things when coming for a gank, if you can time it with a creep wave coming in and run in from the tribush behind them you can run over and slice onto a creep and then whether they run or flash dice after them and land your W>Q combo, after that you're mostly done except for AA' but generally his stun+red is enough for the other dudes in the lane to catch up and do a fair bit of damage, it's somewhat similar to a Pantheon gank...

His ulti is also Ridiculous for tower diving.
Two_DoWn
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States13684 Posts
January 18 2012 06:45 GMT
#488
On January 18 2012 15:44 Skithiryx wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 18 2012 15:35 Hidden_MotiveS wrote:
On January 18 2012 15:27 Skithiryx wrote:
On January 18 2012 14:59 Hidden_MotiveS wrote:
On January 18 2012 14:02 Skithiryx wrote:
On January 18 2012 13:57 Hidden_MotiveS wrote:
I played all the free champs this week that I don't normally own.
Correct me on what I'm wrong with, but I feel like I have a much better feel for all the champions.

I feel like renekton is rather easy to counter in lane now. Stay out of the range of his slice and dice. Ward bushes if you need to. He's still scary in teamfights but his damage drops off considerably after the first 3 seconds of a standard teamfight.
Kassadin can't farm under tower (well he can use his W for 5 seconds... but I don't think people max this) and has no health sustain. MR or being underfed prevent kass from instagibbing anyone.
Shyvana seems to be really strong, but her only attack that can hit far away is her E and you can just hide behind minions for that. She gets really fast with her w, and she can burst squishies down fast. It should be easy to escape from her and harass her in lane. She's really tanky and not afraid to dive you under tower. I don't know what I'd do against her in a teamfight o_0
Vayne. Wow vayne is so strong. I want to buy her! I can see how people carry so hard with her now. I have a better feel for the range of her condemn knockback.


Alot of Renektons issues i've been getting around just by jungling him, I'm not sure why it's not seen more he has really fast clear times, stays pretty high and red+w leads to very stronk ganks, he does have an issue with lack of resists but he can still get pretty tanky and just become a throw away initiate at worst.

Yeah he seems like a jungle champion. But he has no slow...

On January 18 2012 14:41 sermokala wrote:
played against mundo solo top with cho and it was so disheartening to see him regen so much no matter how much I harassed him.

He epic farmed with the cleaver and made my life a living hell for 16 minutes until laning ended.

I'm sure the mundo was pissed at you too. You healed every time you killed a minion :p


You generally always have red buff and even if not getting a Phage isn't that expensive and you can just go Atmallet instead of Atmogs...

That works. BTW isn't it pronounced fratmas?

I would probably still get wriggles first though, and by the time phage were finished, a lot of the potential ganking period would have passed. I've never seen a renekton gank, but if udyr can be god tier with no slow, then I guess renekton can gank too. Just don't waste an exhaust.


In general I tend to start Cloth+5 > Boots 1 > Razors/Wriggles > Phage > Boots 2/Bruta > Atmas > Mallet > Tanky

He can do alot of cool things when coming for a gank, if you can time it with a creep wave coming in and run in from the tribush behind them you can run over and slice onto a creep and then whether they run or flash dice after them and land your W>Q combo, after that you're mostly done except for AA' but generally his stun+red is enough for the other dudes in the lane to catch up and do a fair bit of damage, it's somewhat similar to a Pantheon gank...

His ulti is also Ridiculous for tower diving.

Dont start cloth5. Its outdated and unnecessary. If you are aiming for wriggles, go boots or vamp cepter.
"What is the air speed velocity of an unladen courier?" "Dire or Radiant?"
Treadmill
Profile Joined July 2010
Canada2833 Posts
January 18 2012 06:52 GMT
#489
WHOA WHOA WHOA

ninja tabi have replaced swifties on the 'replace your boots' selection

#1 PATCH CHANGE
Two_DoWn
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States13684 Posts
January 18 2012 06:54 GMT
#490
On January 18 2012 15:52 Treadmill wrote:
WHOA WHOA WHOA

ninja tabi have replaced swifties on the 'replace your boots' selection

#1 PATCH CHANGE

Now if they would only remove swifties from the game.

#1 noob trap.
"What is the air speed velocity of an unladen courier?" "Dire or Radiant?"
Skithiryx
Profile Joined August 2010
Australia648 Posts
January 18 2012 06:54 GMT
#491
On January 18 2012 15:45 Two_DoWn wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 18 2012 15:44 Skithiryx wrote:
On January 18 2012 15:35 Hidden_MotiveS wrote:
On January 18 2012 15:27 Skithiryx wrote:
On January 18 2012 14:59 Hidden_MotiveS wrote:
On January 18 2012 14:02 Skithiryx wrote:
On January 18 2012 13:57 Hidden_MotiveS wrote:
I played all the free champs this week that I don't normally own.
Correct me on what I'm wrong with, but I feel like I have a much better feel for all the champions.

I feel like renekton is rather easy to counter in lane now. Stay out of the range of his slice and dice. Ward bushes if you need to. He's still scary in teamfights but his damage drops off considerably after the first 3 seconds of a standard teamfight.
Kassadin can't farm under tower (well he can use his W for 5 seconds... but I don't think people max this) and has no health sustain. MR or being underfed prevent kass from instagibbing anyone.
Shyvana seems to be really strong, but her only attack that can hit far away is her E and you can just hide behind minions for that. She gets really fast with her w, and she can burst squishies down fast. It should be easy to escape from her and harass her in lane. She's really tanky and not afraid to dive you under tower. I don't know what I'd do against her in a teamfight o_0
Vayne. Wow vayne is so strong. I want to buy her! I can see how people carry so hard with her now. I have a better feel for the range of her condemn knockback.


Alot of Renektons issues i've been getting around just by jungling him, I'm not sure why it's not seen more he has really fast clear times, stays pretty high and red+w leads to very stronk ganks, he does have an issue with lack of resists but he can still get pretty tanky and just become a throw away initiate at worst.

Yeah he seems like a jungle champion. But he has no slow...

On January 18 2012 14:41 sermokala wrote:
played against mundo solo top with cho and it was so disheartening to see him regen so much no matter how much I harassed him.

He epic farmed with the cleaver and made my life a living hell for 16 minutes until laning ended.

I'm sure the mundo was pissed at you too. You healed every time you killed a minion :p


You generally always have red buff and even if not getting a Phage isn't that expensive and you can just go Atmallet instead of Atmogs...

That works. BTW isn't it pronounced fratmas?

I would probably still get wriggles first though, and by the time phage were finished, a lot of the potential ganking period would have passed. I've never seen a renekton gank, but if udyr can be god tier with no slow, then I guess renekton can gank too. Just don't waste an exhaust.


In general I tend to start Cloth+5 > Boots 1 > Razors/Wriggles > Phage > Boots 2/Bruta > Atmas > Mallet > Tanky

He can do alot of cool things when coming for a gank, if you can time it with a creep wave coming in and run in from the tribush behind them you can run over and slice onto a creep and then whether they run or flash dice after them and land your W>Q combo, after that you're mostly done except for AA' but generally his stun+red is enough for the other dudes in the lane to catch up and do a fair bit of damage, it's somewhat similar to a Pantheon gank...

His ulti is also Ridiculous for tower diving.

Dont start cloth5. Its outdated and unnecessary. If you are aiming for wriggles, go boots or vamp cepter.


I only go it on Renek because in general blue can get you a little low, but it's more that i don't always build Wriggles unless i've actually gotten a few kills in ganks, I tend to treat him a bit like Lee Sin and just go into my jungle if theirs nothing to do or buffs to be had but other then that i'm generally roaming for ganks/counterjungling a fair bit, will try out vamp scepter with a new route tonight.
Niton
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States2395 Posts
January 18 2012 06:56 GMT
#492
On January 18 2012 15:52 Treadmill wrote:
WHOA WHOA WHOA

ninja tabi have replaced swifties on the 'replace your boots' selection

#1 PATCH CHANGE


But now Aegis is no longer on the Ruby Crystal menu. Sad times.
tree.hugger: Coming off of [(T)fantasy v. (T)Really] into [(T)Barracks v. (T)MVP] is like coming out of Manhattan into New Jersey. You just have to speed up and ignore it.
Cloud
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
Sexico5880 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-18 07:04:19
January 18 2012 07:02 GMT
#493
On January 18 2012 15:17 iCanada wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 18 2012 14:41 Cloud wrote:
I call bs on building ad on a champ that scales absolutely nothing off of it.


She doesn't really need to scale off it. If I spend 10k gold on Deathcap, Rylais, and WotA I get these stats:
1.30(80+140+80)= 390 AP +500HP +25% spellvamp

That means that Sej's Q will do 363 damage (instead of 210) = if Q's up twice in a teamfight, thats 300 more damage.
W will do 65+2%HP DPS (instead of 35+2%hp dps)
E will do 455 (instead of 260)
R wil do 630 (instead of 350)

Considering most champs will have like 50-100 MR the difference in your W is negligible, your E hurts but you can only hit one target unless you manage to autoattack multiple within the three second window her passive slow has. Your Q can also only hit one champ because you stop upon hitting an enemy champion. Your Ulti has damn impressive damage as well as the stun, but it is only up every two minutes so its only useful once every two teamfights anyway.

While you get a decent amount of damage, you end up damn squishy: 2395 HP at level 18 with 77 Armor and 51 (76 with mercs) MR. Chances are you are dead within the time it takes to initiate and use all your skills.Its really quite... meh imo.

Say I spend that same 10k on Warmogs, Atmas, Ionic Spark and Wriggles (asssuming we started Regne->Philo+mercs on both) and you get:
30+45 armor
23+(2%HP) AD
15 Lifesteal
1270+250 hp
+50% attack speed (about 1.25 attacks per second.)

While you are stuck with base damage spells, you get a whopping 3415 HP meaning you get an additional 92 AD givjng you 206 auto attack damage, as well as lifesteal, 152 armor, and 76 MR giving you like 40% more EHP and the ability to throw out the same amount of damage overall especially since you actually gain more W damage from the extra HP than you do from all the AP in our first build.

Your teamfight damage output is slightly less, but you end up being a much better duelist all game, and become much better at doing your tank job of being hella annoying for carries to deal with because Sej's spells have ridiculously low uptime.

I'd never get deathcap on her. She doesn't scale well enough and its way too expensive for a jungler anyway. I just don't get the rationale between getting mallet instead of rylais, wriggles instead of wota, etc.

Why do you rush mercs? She's not udyr, she has a huge ass gap closer.
BlueLaguna on West, msg for game.
Hidden_MotiveS
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Canada2562 Posts
January 18 2012 07:03 GMT
#494
On January 18 2012 15:56 Niton wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 18 2012 15:52 Treadmill wrote:
WHOA WHOA WHOA

ninja tabi have replaced swifties on the 'replace your boots' selection

#1 PATCH CHANGE


But now Aegis is no longer on the Ruby Crystal menu. Sad times.

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Recommended_item_code
Make your own recommended items.

Honestly I'm suprised the pros don't do this already. If it saves you 10 seconds per game (where even if you are waiting to heal you get to see what's going on on the map) it's more than worth the five minutes spent making the list.
koreasilver
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
9109 Posts
January 18 2012 07:06 GMT
#495
I seriously have no idea what I'm doing with new jax.
Hidden_MotiveS
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Canada2562 Posts
January 18 2012 07:15 GMT
#496
Dyrus is saying he can't gank anywhere with sejuani since there are wards and people can just blink away and play safe. I often just buy pink wards now and ward for my allies where I think the enemy wards are. Now he's saying he's gonna get 2 gp5 and just farm. There's also a period before people (non supports in normal games) don't buy wards that some junglers can abuse
Inschato
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
Canada1349 Posts
January 18 2012 07:51 GMT
#497
On January 18 2012 16:06 koreasilver wrote:
I seriously have no idea what I'm doing with new jax.

Press REW, Q target, win!
3.
Seiuchi
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States931 Posts
January 18 2012 07:53 GMT
#498
On January 18 2012 16:15 Hidden_MotiveS wrote:
Dyrus is saying he can't gank anywhere with sejuani since there are wards and people can just blink away and play safe. I often just buy pink wards now and ward for my allies where I think the enemy wards are. Now he's saying he's gonna get 2 gp5 and just farm. There's also a period before people (non supports in normal games) don't buy wards that some junglers can abuse


Now that supports ward bot properly the thing I hate most about jungling is watching our bot lane get shit on by Graves and then my bot yelling at me to gank bot when they obviously have river and tri bush warded.
Terranasaur
Profile Joined May 2011
United States2085 Posts
January 18 2012 07:55 GMT
#499
On January 18 2012 15:33 Two_DoWn wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 18 2012 15:32 UniversalSnip wrote:
wow I have no idea what champion ppl have actually been talking about on this last page, as far as building ad, gunblade, etc. I thought it was mundo?

I was assuming it was Jax, with a smattering of Sej.



Ya. That was my bad. I should have quoted the post...

Also. I noticed another change that wasn't noted in the patch. When you play a Bot game, the bots used to follow a set standard lane setup where you would have an AD+Support top, AP mid, and 2 bruisers bot, but now the top and bottom lanes are switched.
Decisions Determine Destiny - Terranasaur#1719 D3 #557 SC2 3DS FC: 2423-3623-8068
iCanada
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada10660 Posts
January 18 2012 07:58 GMT
#500
On January 18 2012 16:15 Hidden_MotiveS wrote:
Dyrus is saying he can't gank anywhere with sejuani since there are wards and people can just blink away and play safe. I often just buy pink wards now and ward for my allies where I think the enemy wards are. Now he's saying he's gonna get 2 gp5 and just farm. There's also a period before people (non supports in normal games) don't buy wards that some junglers can abuse


Well, thats a little silly because I think Sej has the strongest level three ganks currently in the game. Only bot lane should have wards by then. And hell, if the other team is all worried that Sej is gonna own their face with a level 3 gank, is that not a good thing? Means you can just laugh, counter jungle hard, and let your teammates push.

/shrug
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