|
Public Service AnnouncementUse the Champion threads whenever appropriate. Don't use General Discussion simply out of ease. ===== If you want to whine about server lag, use the QQ thread. We all suffer alike when Riot servers kaput. No need to make a post about it in GD. |
On January 31 2012 01:42 Slayer91 wrote:
Yeah, an AoE perma slow is crazy strong, especially with one of the strongest initiating/ganking ultis in the game. Imagine if a champion like that had great natural tankiness, mobility, and sustained damage as well??
Oh, wait..
That said for some reason skarner hasn't been played much since the nerf, even by me. No idea why, though, he's still really fun and really powerful like wtf.
He's still instaban, instapick status in my games.
|
Skarner seems to be a little bit of a retard magnet though, because of his strong ult he'll just towerdive without care or hesitation and sometime give 2 kills to the enemy team. huhuehehe
|
I think in LiquidParty we call that a "teut magnet"
Oh yeah, I remember why I stopped playing skarner, I'm back to playing udyr at every possible occassion so I get back into never lose status with him. (Going good so far)
I'll work on making skarner back to perma ban on eu after I get that shit locked down. np np
|
For real, anivia is so fucking hard to play...
|
Recently had a game where Singed was top vs Nasus. That was the most passive lane I have ever seen, where Singed just runs around with poison and Nasus did his spirit fire thing and the lane was at a complete stalemate. However Nasus farm scales incredibly into the late game where as Singed kind of just... keeps running around with his poison. We had a jungle WW that couldn't really stop Nasus with his ganks either.
My question is how to prevent Nasus from farming into a god in that situation? I think our mid was Morgana against Kennen and I ran Janna with Vayne against Sona/Tristana. Were more team ganks needed to stop Nasus or should we have just picked a better top?
|
On January 31 2012 01:41 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 01:37 Seuss wrote:On January 31 2012 01:22 Requizen wrote:
As an Ezreal player, what do you think he needs to be a quality pick again? Something like higher base stats, higher range, or allowing Q to crit? Maybe an AoE clearing ability that's not his ult?
Not that it really matters all that much, as I'll play him because he's fun, but just thinking out loud. Q Critting is a common suggestion, but it risks him becoming a super-ranged Gangplank. I think a better solution would be to allow his own W to affect him. It's a softer buff that primarily strengthens his late game. The issue I see with that is, how would that work with his AS passive? If they stack, that's a 90% AS buff. Or were you thinking still have it cap out at 50%, but let him get the 40% immediately from W so he doesn't have to stack his passive pre-fight?
The former. 90% AS isn't as crazy as it sounds. Keep in mind we're not slapping a 90% AS buff on a carry without AS, but are simply increasing from 50% to 90%. Moreover, the player has to level W to garner this benefit, and attack speed tends to conflict with Ezreal's Q. There are already carries with 80-90% AS steroids anyway (Graves, Tristana).
Not that I'm hung up on that idea. If that doesn't work you could also/instead increase the AD ratio on Q. Something as slight as 1.1 could make a big difference. There are lots of different ways to go about it without falling back on the community favorite of Q crits.
|
What picks can hold off/counter a lane tigerdyr?
|
On January 31 2012 02:21 Nos- wrote:
Recently had a game where Singed was top vs Nasus. That was the most passive lane I have ever seen, where Singed just runs around with poison and Nasus did his spirit fire thing and the lane was at a complete stalemate. However Nasus farm scales incredibly into the late game where as Singed kind of just... keeps running around with his poison. We had a jungle WW that couldn't really stop Nasus with his ganks either.
My question is how to prevent Nasus from farming into a god in that situation? I think our mid was Morgana against Kennen and I ran Janna with Vayne against Sona/Tristana. Were more team ganks needed to stop Nasus or should we have just picked a better top?
singed is a bad counter pick to nasus if you went second. if it was possible i would of probably put ww in lane against nasus then some really aggresive jungler like pantheon if you want to gank nasus out the game.
|
On January 31 2012 01:46 Mogwai wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 01:42 Slayer91 wrote:
Yeah, an AoE perma slow is crazy strong, especially with one of the strongest initiating/ganking ultis in the game. Imagine if a champion like that had great natural tankiness, mobility, and sustained damage as well??
Oh, wait..
That said for some reason skarner hasn't been played much since the nerf, even by me. No idea why, though, he's still really fun and really powerful like wtf. He's still instaban, instapick status in my games.
I had him not banned in 2 of my last ~30 or so games. Game 1 went 5/0/6, game 2 went 12/0/X. You don't leave Skarner unbanned.
|
Russian Federation798 Posts
On January 31 2012 02:21 Nos- wrote:
Recently had a game where Singed was top vs Nasus. That was the most passive lane I have ever seen, where Singed just runs around with poison and Nasus did his spirit fire thing and the lane was at a complete stalemate. However Nasus farm scales incredibly into the late game where as Singed kind of just... keeps running around with his poison. We had a jungle WW that couldn't really stop Nasus with his ganks either.
My question is how to prevent Nasus from farming into a god in that situation? I think our mid was Morgana against Kennen and I ran Janna with Vayne against Sona/Tristana. Were more team ganks needed to stop Nasus or should we have just picked a better top?
As a nasus player the no1 rule is to not let him farm - kill him or force him out of lane. To do this the best option is to pick an aggressive top laner, someone who can harass nasus a lot and zone him out - examples would be garen and renekton. Getting fast ganks on nasus also helps a lot. One thing though dont ever push the lane thats what nasus wants you to do - every noob in solo que pushes the lane right to the tower where I freeze it and get all my farm from relative safety. Bottom line though finish the game as fast as possible because the longer the game lasts the stronger nasus gets, even if he does badly in lane.
|
On January 31 2012 02:27 turdburgler wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 02:21 Nos- wrote:
Recently had a game where Singed was top vs Nasus. That was the most passive lane I have ever seen, where Singed just runs around with poison and Nasus did his spirit fire thing and the lane was at a complete stalemate. However Nasus farm scales incredibly into the late game where as Singed kind of just... keeps running around with his poison. We had a jungle WW that couldn't really stop Nasus with his ganks either.
My question is how to prevent Nasus from farming into a god in that situation? I think our mid was Morgana against Kennen and I ran Janna with Vayne against Sona/Tristana. Were more team ganks needed to stop Nasus or should we have just picked a better top? singed is a bad counter pick to nasus if you went second. if it was possible i would of probably put ww in lane against nasus then some really aggresive jungler like pantheon if you want to gank nasus out the game.
It was a team we had and our solo top could only play Singed to a respectable degree, so he picked singed. I've actually ran into problems with Nasus a lot, where he just afk-farms his Q all game, and then all of a sudden comes into a mid-late game team fight and just makes my carry explode. Can't support/heal someone that's 100% or 0%  . What heroes that can solo top can keep Nasus from getting to that state?
|
United States47024 Posts
On January 31 2012 01:42 Harrow wrote:
There are flaws with last hitting as a mechanic - it's not intuitive for new players, it creates the 0CS Support meta, etc - but it definitely creates interesting gameplay and laning mechanics and skill differentiators, and not just the "is your timing good" test. It would be much more difficult than that thread suggestsnto remove the mechanic without overhauling the game. But hey, we're going to get a case study in Blizzard Dota, so let's see what happens.
How does lasthitting create the "0cs support meta"?
Even trilane supports in DotA end up with like 50-70 CS in competitive games. Whatever the reason for supports in LoL by convention getting 0 CS, it's something unique to LoL, and not based on a genre-wide mechanic.
|
On January 31 2012 02:34 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 01:42 Harrow wrote:
There are flaws with last hitting as a mechanic - it's not intuitive for new players, it creates the 0CS Support meta, etc - but it definitely creates interesting gameplay and laning mechanics and skill differentiators, and not just the "is your timing good" test. It would be much more difficult than that thread suggestsnto remove the mechanic without overhauling the game. But hey, we're going to get a case study in Blizzard Dota, so let's see what happens. How does lasthitting create the "0cs support meta"? Even trilane supports in DotA end up with like 50-70 CS in competitive games. Whatever the reason for supports in LoL by convention getting 0 CS, it's something unique to LoL, and not based on a genre-wide mechanic.
I know that the Meta in Dota for CM somehow shifted to CM running like 2-3 wraith bands to increase her AS so she could last hit better at some point. I think the "0cs support" thing is unique to LoL purely because of the gold/5 items/runes that are available. Why take cs when you can just get 5 gold generators and sit there?
|
On January 31 2012 02:23 Seuss wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 01:41 Requizen wrote:On January 31 2012 01:37 Seuss wrote:On January 31 2012 01:22 Requizen wrote:
As an Ezreal player, what do you think he needs to be a quality pick again? Something like higher base stats, higher range, or allowing Q to crit? Maybe an AoE clearing ability that's not his ult?
Not that it really matters all that much, as I'll play him because he's fun, but just thinking out loud. Q Critting is a common suggestion, but it risks him becoming a super-ranged Gangplank. I think a better solution would be to allow his own W to affect him. It's a softer buff that primarily strengthens his late game. The issue I see with that is, how would that work with his AS passive? If they stack, that's a 90% AS buff. Or were you thinking still have it cap out at 50%, but let him get the 40% immediately from W so he doesn't have to stack his passive pre-fight? The former. 90% AS isn't as crazy as it sounds. Keep in mind we're not slapping a 90% AS buff on a carry without AS, but are simply increasing from 50% to 90%. Moreover, the player has to level W to garner this benefit, and attack speed tends to conflict with Ezreal's Q. There are already carries with 80-90% AS steroids anyway (Graves, Tristana). Not that I'm hung up on that idea. If that doesn't work you could also/instead increase the AD ratio on Q. Something as slight as 1.1 could make a big difference. There are lots of different ways to go about it without falling back on the community favorite of Q crits.
That's true, I forgot about Graves/Trist. I still think an auto range increase wouldn't hurt. While Graves and Vayne have short range, Graves is beefy and Vayne has a stun/knockback/stealth. Ezreal has his Flash, but that's not always enough to encourage him to get in and auto.
|
hmm, that's odd, I've always felt like I get to bully nasus really hard with singed.
|
Wouldn't you run out of mana before he runs out of hp early on, and later just cs as effectively or better than you?
|
On January 31 2012 02:46 Mogwai wrote:
hmm, that's odd, I've always felt like I get to bully nasus really hard with singed.
You do, it's just that eventually Nasus can deal with you. Least if their jungler isn't asleep and they play smart. I feel like after Merc Treads and Wit's End I can stand even with Singed and not be terribly afraid, with an Aegis I can start trying to kill him somewhere other than my tower.
The last time I played this matchup as Nasus was pretty nightmarishly annoying, because he had a jungle Skarner helping him. My Nocturne did a really good of being there at the approriate time though. It felt like slogging up a moutain covered in mud and ice though... the entire time I'm seething thinking "Oh just wait you SOB... just wait."
|
On January 31 2012 00:27 ManyCookies wrote:http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=19877669#post19877669I agree with his notion that last hitting is arbitrary mechanical difficulty, though his proposals would fudamentally change the game. The challenge would be finding a system that makes last hitting mechanically easier while retaining the gameplay based around it, such as zoning. Maybe like an invisible 30-50 hp shield against non-champion damage or something.
Destroying a tower early on is generally not worth it because it is only worth approximately one
minion wave netted to each player on the team, and puts the player in a higher risk area to kill
minions, while putting the opposing player in lane in a safer spot.
Why do people keep thinking this? Getting three towers is equal to 1950 gold for your team! Each tower is worth 2/3 of a dragon. Once a tower is gone, it's very easy to just freeze the lane at your own tower if you wish to and completely zone out your opponent from cs forcing them to have to roam around to try to gank lanes. If someone tries to cs at where their tower was, then it becomes easier to gank them because you no longer need to tower dive. I think destroying towers is a valid strategy and that if you have enough minions in your wave and time to destroy a tower early in the laning phase you should just do it.
If last hitting were removed then zoning would still exist. It would probably lower the skill cap of the game by removing one of the skill differentiators. I'm not sure what other effect it would have on the game. I'd think zoning would be really boring, since I'd not have to do anything but keep my champion standing somewhere. Passive lanes (lanes where moving towards the enemy creep wave would be disadvantageous) would probably also become even more passive. I'd like to think that last hitting is a good thing, it occupies your time, time that wouldn't really be spent doing anything else.
|
Is there any site that has half decent LoL guides? The top rated MOBAfire guide for Swain suggested, without irony, rushing Mejai's Soulstealer and Tears of the Goddess.
|
On January 31 2012 02:41 Nos- wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 02:34 TheYango wrote:On January 31 2012 01:42 Harrow wrote:
There are flaws with last hitting as a mechanic - it's not intuitive for new players, it creates the 0CS Support meta, etc - but it definitely creates interesting gameplay and laning mechanics and skill differentiators, and not just the "is your timing good" test. It would be much more difficult than that thread suggestsnto remove the mechanic without overhauling the game. But hey, we're going to get a case study in Blizzard Dota, so let's see what happens. How does lasthitting create the "0cs support meta"? Even trilane supports in DotA end up with like 50-70 CS in competitive games. Whatever the reason for supports in LoL by convention getting 0 CS, it's something unique to LoL, and not based on a genre-wide mechanic. I know that the Meta in Dota for CM somehow shifted to CM running like 2-3 wraith bands to increase her AS so she could last hit better at some point. I think the "0cs support" thing is unique to LoL purely because of the gold/5 items/runes that are available. Why take cs when you can just get 5 gold generators and sit there?
It has nothing to do with gold/10. gold/10 is so unrelated I can't even think of a simple way to explain why it's not related.
It's because in LoL big items are more efficient than small item and scale multiplicatively with each other. This means that your gold is usually most efficiently used on the character who already has the most gold. It's simply better to have 1 champ with IE + PD and 1 with nothing than it is to have 1 champ with IE and 1 with PD.
On January 31 2012 03:00 ManyCookies wrote:
Is there any site that has half decent LoL guides? The top rated MOBAfire guide for Swain suggested rushing Mejai's Soulstealer and Tears of the Goddess.
Yes, this one.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
