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On January 31 2012 04:17 Mogwai wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 04:14 barbsq wrote:On January 31 2012 04:10 Two_DoWn wrote:
And Saint makin bear look real good on stream ATM. I may have to pick him up and give him a try. i regularly crush ppl solo top with le bear, and he has decent jungle too. As of yet (approx 10-15 games or so) I have yet to lose a lane with him (altho i'm sure he has some bad matchups). Honestly, if I was actually a solo top/jungle player i'd play bear 100x more. was unimpressed during his free week, tell me what your bear affinity has taught you about volibearing people so that I can test him a bit more.
well for starters, he's a bear covered in armor. it doesn't get more badass than that.
i played him a little during free week too. I think his kit is really strong but he just hasn't been figured out yet.
I was also just watching that game Saint did with bear on stream, he opened boots+pots. went back for a recurve bow and a dorans shield (something I had never though to do, but makes a ton of sense). then he got wits end, mercs, and a warmogs.
The team he was up against was running Gragas top and Sion middle, so after he had his Mercs and Wits, he had tons of MR and a massive health pool. He just kept diving towers and loling away as his passive saved his ass. I dunno. I think that Armor bear could fit your style Smash, he was being pretty aggressive.
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i know the discussion's kind of over but another aspect of the last hitting thing: i don't think that proposal would have gotten much attention at all if a red hadn't lauded the guy as a savior and suggested he apply for a job (lol.) i'm having a hard time imagining someone actually on the design team working up much enthusiasm for such a shallow analysis. I feel the same way when i read the redtracker and see that qa guy (rickless abandon) authoritatively giving really bad advice - when they post outside of their area of expertise people don't realize they're doing so, so maybe they should avoid doing that. People took the last hitting thread to mean riot design loved the idea and riot the company was ready to scoop that guy up when as far as we know just that one guy who is not a designer or influential in hiring did. It gives a false impression.
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On January 31 2012 04:25 APurpleCow wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 03:47 Terranasaur wrote:On January 31 2012 03:42 BlackPaladin wrote:On January 31 2012 03:00 ManyCookies wrote:
Is there any site that has half decent LoL guides? The top rated MOBAfire guide for Swain suggested, without irony, rushing Mejai's Soulstealer and Tears of the Goddess. teamliquid..................... :| http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/search.php?q=swain Ya. The Liquid ones are better. There is some decent information on Solomid, but very little quality control. If somebody says something stupid in a champ thread on TL, it will get pointed out and corrected. Not so with Solomid or Mobafire. The recent featured guides are almost always very good.
Actually, the approved guides are often better than the featured ones, since they are really in depth, while the featured ones are sometimes just a pro player tossing out masteries, items, skill order, without actually explaining in depth reasoning or how to play the champion.
Edit - in response to the post below me, I kinda implied that Approved guides tend to go over the whys, as opposed to the featured guides that often don't >_>
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On January 31 2012 04:31 triangle wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 04:25 APurpleCow wrote:On January 31 2012 03:47 Terranasaur wrote:On January 31 2012 03:42 BlackPaladin wrote:On January 31 2012 03:00 ManyCookies wrote:
Is there any site that has half decent LoL guides? The top rated MOBAfire guide for Swain suggested, without irony, rushing Mejai's Soulstealer and Tears of the Goddess. teamliquid..................... :| http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/search.php?q=swain Ya. The Liquid ones are better. There is some decent information on Solomid, but very little quality control. If somebody says something stupid in a champ thread on TL, it will get pointed out and corrected. Not so with Solomid or Mobafire. The recent featured guides are almost always very good. Actually, the approved guides are often better than the featured ones, since they are really in depth, while the featured ones are sometimes just a pro player tossing out masteries, items, skill order, without actually explaining in depth reasoning or how to play the champion.
The content of the guides is only part of the equation. What makes the TL threads better, IMO, is the discussion that follows. You learn not only the "Whats" but also the "Whys"
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On January 31 2012 03:47 Terranasaur wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 03:42 BlackPaladin wrote:On January 31 2012 03:00 ManyCookies wrote:
Is there any site that has half decent LoL guides? The top rated MOBAfire guide for Swain suggested, without irony, rushing Mejai's Soulstealer and Tears of the Goddess. teamliquid..................... :| http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/search.php?q=swain Ya. The Liquid ones are better. There is some decent information on Solomid, but very little quality control. If somebody says something stupid in a champ thread on TL, it will get pointed out and corrected. Not so with Solomid or Mobafire.
If you use Solomid just use the guides by players you know/use the featured ones
those are usually the only ones worth a shit
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On January 31 2012 04:17 Mogwai wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 04:14 barbsq wrote:On January 31 2012 04:10 Two_DoWn wrote:
And Saint makin bear look real good on stream ATM. I may have to pick him up and give him a try. i regularly crush ppl solo top with le bear, and he has decent jungle too. As of yet (approx 10-15 games or so) I have yet to lose a lane with him (altho i'm sure he has some bad matchups). Honestly, if I was actually a solo top/jungle player i'd play bear 100x more. was unimpressed during his free week, tell me what your bear affinity has taught you about volibearing people so that I can test him a bit more.
hes been buffed since
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On January 31 2012 04:06 Mogwai wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 02:57 zer0das wrote:On January 31 2012 02:46 Mogwai wrote:
hmm, that's odd, I've always felt like I get to bully nasus really hard with singed. You do, it's just that eventually Nasus can deal with you. Least if their jungler isn't asleep and they play smart. I feel like after Merc Treads and Wit's End I can stand even with Singed and not be terribly afraid, with an Aegis I can start trying to kill him somewhere other than my tower. The last time I played this matchup as Nasus was pretty nightmarishly annoying, because he had a jungle Skarner helping him. My Nocturne did a really good of being there at the approriate time though. It felt like slogging up a moutain covered in mud and ice though... the entire time I'm seething thinking "Oh just wait you SOB... just wait." wit's end nasus.... what? anyway, singed totally fucks nasus in later teamfights too, I feel like I'm going crazy or something listening to this conversation. 75% AoE slow + a displacement ability CRUSHES Melee with no gap closer.
You said you bully Nasus, how else is Nasus going to get a bunch of free magic resist and damage early? The main issue in the matchup for Nasus is surviving early while farming effectively, if you can do that, you've pretty much won. A Force of Nature would work- except the fact it takes a crapton of money to get it, and the early pressure makes it hard to save up for that. Stack three Null Magic's, turn them into Merc's, Wit's End, and Aegis (or Guardian Angel)... bam, lots of MR and easy to save up for it, and you're a legitimate threat to kill Singed much sooner.
I feel like it's the opposite as far as who is more useful. Singed tries to intiate, you wither him. Singed now either has to either retreat or take a lot of unanswered damage. The extra few seconds is a big deal. If your team has more things to peel him, it makes it even worse for him. Wither comes off cooldown pretty shortly after it ends with 40% CDR too.
It's not like Nasus is forced to run into the entire enemy team and q the AD carry to be useful.
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Featured guides on solomid are sometimes meh. Like, the only featured Riven guide for a while was Xpecial promoting a generic tanky dps build and telling everyone she sucked. A lot of them get featured because the authors are popular, even if they're bad or generic.
It's not hard to open up a handful for a champ and compare them, so I usually do that. TL guide discussions are much better, though.
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On January 31 2012 04:37 zer0das wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 04:06 Mogwai wrote:On January 31 2012 02:57 zer0das wrote:On January 31 2012 02:46 Mogwai wrote:
hmm, that's odd, I've always felt like I get to bully nasus really hard with singed. You do, it's just that eventually Nasus can deal with you. Least if their jungler isn't asleep and they play smart. I feel like after Merc Treads and Wit's End I can stand even with Singed and not be terribly afraid, with an Aegis I can start trying to kill him somewhere other than my tower. The last time I played this matchup as Nasus was pretty nightmarishly annoying, because he had a jungle Skarner helping him. My Nocturne did a really good of being there at the approriate time though. It felt like slogging up a moutain covered in mud and ice though... the entire time I'm seething thinking "Oh just wait you SOB... just wait." wit's end nasus.... what? anyway, singed totally fucks nasus in later teamfights too, I feel like I'm going crazy or something listening to this conversation. 75% AoE slow + a displacement ability CRUSHES Melee with no gap closer. You said you bully Nasus, how else is Nasus going to get a bunch of free magic resist and damage early? The main issue in the matchup for Nasus is surviving early while farming effectively, if you can do that, you've pretty much won. A Force of Nature would work- except the fact it takes a crapton of money to get it, and the early pressure makes it hard to save up for that. Stack three Null Magic's, turn them into Merc's, Wit's End, and Aegis (or Guardian Angel)... bam, lots of MR and easy to save up for it, and you're a legitimate threat to kill Singed much sooner. I feel like it's the opposite as far as who is more useful. Singed tries to intiate, you wither him. Singed now either has to either retreat or take a lot of unanswered damage. The extra few seconds is a big deal. If your team has more things to peel him, it makes it even worse for him. Wither comes off cooldown pretty shortly after it ends with 40% CDR too. It's not like Nasus is forced to run into the entire enemy team and q the AD carry to be useful.
If you need MR on Nasus you should either be just straight buying a negatron cloak on the first back, or build a spirit visage for the MR and CDR.
Wits does nothing for Nasus.
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http://www.solomid.net/guides.php?g=8379
Since we'reo n the topic of guides..
Is that the new best way to build riven?
I was going wriggles -> bt with no dblades or anything(read it on TL i think?)
or is that guide viable also?
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On January 31 2012 04:44 arb wrote:http://www.solomid.net/guides.php?g=8379Since we'reo n the topic of guides.. Is that the new best way to build riven? I was going wriggles -> bt with no dblades or anything(read it on TL i think?) or is that guide viable also?
IMO, DBlades aren't worth it usually. They're for a strong early game presence, but Riven thrives off her scaling, so it's better to go after those BFS items. Wriggles is taken because it makes you a god(dess) in lane, otherwise I'd even skip it and save for BT faster.
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On January 31 2012 04:17 Mogwai wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 04:14 barbsq wrote:On January 31 2012 04:10 Two_DoWn wrote:
And Saint makin bear look real good on stream ATM. I may have to pick him up and give him a try. i regularly crush ppl solo top with le bear, and he has decent jungle too. As of yet (approx 10-15 games or so) I have yet to lose a lane with him (altho i'm sure he has some bad matchups). Honestly, if I was actually a solo top/jungle player i'd play bear 100x more. was unimpressed during his free week, tell me what your bear affinity has taught you about volibearing people so that I can test him a bit more.
I didn't do jungle so much, so watching saint is prob a better resource, but what i did the few times i jungled was max roar first (for super aoe clear speed) and went a fairly standard wriggles/wits/tanky sort of build. I started blue first for cd's but after the 1st, you don't need it at all, and I suspect that red starts would be just as potent, if not more so, just kus of how little mana he uses.
Top lane, i start either boots or cloth first (again pretty standard stuff), and either go for aegis or wriggles depending on what's going on. If i have some issues or the lane is close, wriggles usually solves everything in an irelia sort of way. Then I eventually get either wits or ionic spark (or sometimes both if i'm getting fed, huehueheu). Afterwards, i get some mix of defensive items, including but not limited to frozen heart, warmogs, omen, FoN, reverie, GA, etc. Again, pretty standard stuff. I'm sure triforce would be good on him, but I had so few games that really got to that point, and recurve items just ramp his power up so hard due to how well his ult scales with aspeed. A lot of times I just get an asston of armor runes and cloth and walk to lane with like 70+ armor and usually can start easily trading around lvl 4-5.
He has really low mana costs, so you honestly don't even have to manage your mana at all in the early part of the game. In top lane I usually level w first, and after charging it up a few times on creeps, it's pretty easy to q,e,w combo ppl if they try to get close to last hit. E has the added bonus that it basically stops creep aggro for a few seconds which can really help out a lot in the pre-6 phase. It's also really important to push your advantage once you have it, cause ult is on fairly low CD, and it's really hard for ppl to escape you due to the fact that you have basically a singed kit with high burst (not to mention i've net a few kills where the guy would have gotten away, but i hit a nearby creep and lightninged him for the last bit of dmg, hueheuheu). I've also tried maxing e first in lane, and it was pretty decent, but prob better if you're going for a farmfest. I do max e first if i'm in bot lane tho (for whatever reason).
Teamfights are fairly simple. Either q in for an initiation or save it for a peel and mash r, e and w on cd. He's quite an AOE monster esp if you decide to get ionic instead of wits, and is crazy tanky with his passive.
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I'm noticing that if I go top I have a hard time deciding when to go aggressive early in the game. Especially when I see their jungler doing the buff closest to me. Versus champions that tend to bully you out of lane like GP I almost always have a hard time, and I think it's because I usually back out whenever GP Q's me. I go cloth 5 vs GP standard, but as Irelia, Tryn or Singed I tend to still get bullied out of lane by Q's. Thus I tend to lose most of my lanes against a GP. Now he's a ban for me whenever I'm playing soloQ ranked or draft, but I'm wondering if I'm doing anything wrong or if there are easy lane counters vs him.
I've tried engaging when GP Q's a creep, and that has worked okay. I still feel that I'm pretty useless vs GP as his ult gives him so much utility when there's a fight somewhere else on the map. Against other laners I still have trouble deciding when to go in at lower lvls. Is that just something that comes with playing loads of games and matchups?
Edited for formatting.
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On January 31 2012 04:48 Requizen wrote:IMO, DBlades aren't worth it usually. They're for a strong early game presence, but Riven thrives off her scaling, so it's better to go after those BFS items. Wriggles is taken because it makes you a god(dess) in lane, otherwise I'd even skip it and save for BT faster.
there was actually a whole discussion on dblades vs wriggles, and iirc navi said to do dblades. If you really want to peruse that thread it might be worth a look.
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GP shits on the three that you mentioned, not too much you can do. There are some champions that do notably well against him though, the first ones that come to mind are jarvan and pantheon, one because they just do craploads of damage and have the armor to tank GP, the other because his passive kind of negates the Qs completely.
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On January 31 2012 04:37 zer0das wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 04:06 Mogwai wrote:On January 31 2012 02:57 zer0das wrote:On January 31 2012 02:46 Mogwai wrote:
hmm, that's odd, I've always felt like I get to bully nasus really hard with singed. You do, it's just that eventually Nasus can deal with you. Least if their jungler isn't asleep and they play smart. I feel like after Merc Treads and Wit's End I can stand even with Singed and not be terribly afraid, with an Aegis I can start trying to kill him somewhere other than my tower. The last time I played this matchup as Nasus was pretty nightmarishly annoying, because he had a jungle Skarner helping him. My Nocturne did a really good of being there at the approriate time though. It felt like slogging up a moutain covered in mud and ice though... the entire time I'm seething thinking "Oh just wait you SOB... just wait." wit's end nasus.... what? anyway, singed totally fucks nasus in later teamfights too, I feel like I'm going crazy or something listening to this conversation. 75% AoE slow + a displacement ability CRUSHES Melee with no gap closer. You said you bully Nasus, how else is Nasus going to get a bunch of free magic resist and damage early? The main issue in the matchup for Nasus is surviving early while farming effectively, if you can do that, you've pretty much won. A Force of Nature would work- except the fact it takes a crapton of money to get it, and the early pressure makes it hard to save up for that. Stack three Null Magic's, turn them into Merc's, Wit's End, and Aegis (or Guardian Angel)... bam, lots of MR and easy to save up for it, and you're a legitimate threat to kill Singed much sooner. I feel like it's the opposite as far as who is more useful. Singed tries to intiate, you wither him. Singed now either has to either retreat or take a lot of unanswered damage. The extra few seconds is a big deal. If your team has more things to peel him, it makes it even worse for him. Wither comes off cooldown pretty shortly after it ends with 40% CDR too. It's not like Nasus is forced to run into the entire enemy team and q the AD carry to be useful.
i can't really answer how the lane interactions work, but I went thru a singed phase, and I can tell you that singed doesn't give a shit if he gets either cc'd or if ppl even attack him. And even tho I havn't actually played him in awhile, I'm pretty confident that hasn't really changed.
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On January 31 2012 04:40 Two_DoWn wrote:
Wits does nothing for Nasus.
In most situations I would agree, but I feel like Singed is a special circumstance. The extra sustained damage Wit's End gives you is a pretty big deal when you wither him and are trying to kill him because he overestimated himself. I thought it was stupid too, but someone suggested it to me in a match, and it worked way better than I thought it would. Eventually you sell it off of course, but when we're talking about surviving and not letting him bully you out of lane it does the job.
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On January 31 2012 04:56 barbsq wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 04:48 Requizen wrote:On January 31 2012 04:44 arb wrote:http://www.solomid.net/guides.php?g=8379Since we'reo n the topic of guides.. Is that the new best way to build riven? I was going wriggles -> bt with no dblades or anything(read it on TL i think?) or is that guide viable also? IMO, DBlades aren't worth it usually. They're for a strong early game presence, but Riven thrives off her scaling, so it's better to go after those BFS items. Wriggles is taken because it makes you a god(dess) in lane, otherwise I'd even skip it and save for BT faster. there was actually a whole discussion on dblades vs wriggles, and iirc navi said to do dblades. If you really want to peruse that thread it might be worth a look.
I probably will. Haven't played LoL in a while, I just remember starting Wriggles and skipping DBlades always.
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On January 31 2012 05:05 zer0das wrote:In most situations I would agree, but I feel like Singed is a special circumstance. The extra sustained damage Wit's End gives you is a pretty big deal when you wither him and are trying to kill him because he overestimated himself. I thought it was stupid too, but someone suggested it to me in a match, and it worked way better than I thought it would. Eventually you sell it off of course, but when we're talking about surviving and not letting him bully you out of lane it does the job.
i can't say I've ever been in a position to just sell off wits end.
in any case, I don't really get how wits somehow helps you as a damage item more vs singed than, say, a zeal + phage for a trinity later on? In general, nasus doesn't scale terribly well with aspeed, so you're basically getting it for mr and a damage proc, which just seems kinda silly, and, all in all, you shouldn't even really worry about singed and just try to avoid him. Nasus is not really a peeler or a defensive sort of bruiser, so it seems kinda silly to try to go after singed.
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EPT
