EPT[Patch 1.0.0.132: Sejuani] General Discussion - Page 175
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
On January 31 2012 06:37 zer0das wrote: This is a really unrealistic engagement scenario. Nasus is almost never going to be the one initiating on Singed (least without the aid of a jungler). The fight is probably on or near Nasus's turret because Singed is inevtiably going to push the lane. Singed is probably the one initiating the fight with a fling (maybe taking a tower hit or two in the process), following up with a megadhesive, and following Nasus back as far as he can to to the tower. Once you fling me I'm going to immediately wither you if you start running towards me. Now you can choose to run away or engage me. You're not getting two free flings. Yes, you can get away if you want, but people generally play Singed aggressively, so he's going to go for the kill if he feels like he can do it. This is where Wit's End comes in handy, because if Singed chooses to engage you, your magic resistance is bumping up, you're leeching more life due to the faster attack speed, and you have some extra magic damage on top of that. Whether or not it is worth it is another thing, but I feel like people are overlooking the fact that doing enough damage to keep Singed honest is part of the equation to not getting destroyed in lane. I just played the matchup on the Singed side, the guy went for a fast force of nature after his philostone, and I still rendered him useless. oh no, I'm sorry, you're not allowed to assume I'm a retard. As singed, I'm not going to just poison your waves up to the tower and then dive fucking Nasus because it doesn't accomplish anything except for killing myself. I'm beginning to understand why you see the matchup the way you do. I'm sure the singed's you play against just derp push, but a halfway decent singed understands that in an equalized creep wave at top, all he has to do is last hit with attacks and only poison to damage nasus in order to get ahead. Derp pushing wins some lanes for singed, but vs. like, nasus or irelia, who scale well with farm and can last hit on the tower like a boss, you shoot yourself in the foot by pushing up to his tower at every oppurtunity. Especially since I just outlined how you crush them in a fight in the open. | ||
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jadoth
694 Posts
On January 31 2012 06:38 phyvo wrote: Easiest way to make more viable supports: Nerf the current OP ones until previous niche non-supporters become viable. Especially sustain, remove sustain and suddenly the support picture looks pretty different. But if you want to do it the hard way by introducing 10 completely new champions specifically for the support role that few people will buy or play because they want to play carry, you could do that too. the thing is if the reason people don't like to play support is because you lack power, you have less impact on the course of the game then any other player, and nerfing the supports would exacerbate that. if they could find a way to nerf the laning power of the common supports while upping their team fight i think that might be a good thing to do but just straight nerfing supports would just make playing support feel worse | ||
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
On January 31 2012 06:56 jadoth wrote: the thing is if the reason people don't like to play support is because you lack power, you have less impact on the course of the game then any other player, and nerfing the supports would exacerbate that. if they could find a way to nerf the laning power of the common supports while upping their team fight i think that might be a good thing to do but just straight nerfing supports would just make playing support feel worse Which is why they should remove healing from the game and make bot lane all about picking supports that let you be aggressive and make trades. ATM the only thing that stops "niche" supports from being better is the fact that healing is just too powerful a mechanic. | ||
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Chiharu Harukaze
12112 Posts
And never start a top lane argument with Mogwai. (Unless you're willing to 1v1 him and let TL spectate.) | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
If supports don't bring support and lane sustain to the table, that means they have to have CC, early killing power, and zoning potential based on the strength of their early CC/burst. Either your support is going to zone your opponents and feed your carry kills, or they're going to sustain your carry. You're certainly not going to bring a support to lane that is incapable of EITHER. But if the norm for supports became such that they could reliably burst/CC/suppress enemy laners, then wouldn't Riot find that "un-fun" too? Just like they've found that ability to be "un-fun" on burst-killing solo laners? | ||
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
On January 31 2012 06:38 phyvo wrote: Easiest way to make more viable supports: Nerf the current OP ones until previous niche non-supporters become viable. Especially sustain, remove sustain and suddenly the support picture looks pretty different. But if you want to do it the hard way by introducing 10 completely new champions specifically for the support role that few people will buy or play because they want to play carry, you could do that too. Alternatively you could introduce a fairly cheap item that provides a modicum of sustain. For example: Monte's Ante: Rejuvenation Bead + 265g +10 hp5 Active: Spend 100 mana to heal target ally for 90 + 10*Level Health. 20 second cooldown. Can not be cast on self. Healing reduced by 50% if target has been recently healed. A very rough draft, but something along those lines could potentially alter the support landscape. | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
On January 31 2012 07:00 Chiharu Harukaze wrote: Never start a land war in Asia. And never start a top lane argument with Mogwai. (Unless you're willing to 1v1 him and let TL spectate.) You fool! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders - The most famous of which is "never get involved in a land war in Asia" - but only slightly less well-known is this: "Never go against a Mogwai when death is on the line"! ![[image loading]](http://vibiv.com/img/vbv/covers/Zzr0AIqj.jpg) | ||
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Noocta
France12578 Posts
On January 31 2012 06:31 TheKefka wrote: Well those are the "classic" supports but you can play stuff like support gp,nunu,blitz,mao,leona,etc. I mean,they aren't Sona but they aren't really that terrible to play with if your ad knows how to play with a no sustain support. The list is still inferior to 10% of the current roster. | ||
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
Remember what top lane was like ~3 months ago? You picked ww or udyr because they couldnt die, and if you picked anyone else ww or udyr just killed you. Its the same in bot lane. You cant do anything else because sona, soraka fuck you for it. | ||
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arnath
United States1317 Posts
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
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Craton
United States17303 Posts
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Slayer91
Ireland23461 Posts
On January 31 2012 07:04 Mogwai wrote: You fool! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders - The most famous of which is "never get involved in a land war in Asia" - but only slightly less well-known is this: "Never go against a Mogwai when death is on the line"! That would be inconcieveable. | ||
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starfries
Canada3508 Posts
And I agree there's unexplored options for bot lane. The only ones I've really seen in solo queue are the support + AD lanes and the balls-deep kill lanes, and there's a lot of other possibilities. edit: actually in solo queue there's also the troll last pick lane with gems like Caitlyn Vlad, but that rarely works out | ||
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Treadmill
Canada2833 Posts
'i' before 'e' EXCEPT AFTER C. Some people... + Show Spoiler + (being sarcastic here) | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. | ||
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dooraven
Australia2820 Posts
http://www.absolutelegends.eu/news/638/AbsoluteLegends--Back-to-the-Roots CLG.eu will still be CLG.eu (now without wetdream) while AL will be picking up mTl.tt (seems like they picked up a Dota 2 team too). I'm happy CLGeu distanced themselves from wetdream, I wish mTl best of luck though. | ||
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barbsq
United States5348 Posts
On January 31 2012 07:57 Treadmill wrote: 'i' before 'e' EXCEPT AFTER C. Some people... + Show Spoiler + (being sarcastic here) you know there are actually more cases of that being wrong than right in the english language, and no longer teach it in school  on topic: i don't think there is any problem with supports bot o.O | ||
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Cloud9157
United States2968 Posts
On January 30 2012 16:21 ControlMonkey wrote: Did you build Rylai + Dcap first? It would seem that building one of those tank items first would delay your damage too long. I agree that's a pretty good late game build for any AP champ but I don't know how you can be useful mid game without damage. Yeah, I rushed DC first and then grabbed Rylai's. Went straight tank from there. | ||
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