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On January 31 2012 08:03 dooraven wrote:hmm it seems that AL and CLG have split. http://www.absolutelegends.eu/news/638/AbsoluteLegends--Back-to-the-RootsCLG.eu will still be CLG.eu (now without wetdream) while AL will be picking up mTl.tt (seems like they picked up a Dota 2 team too). I'm happy CLGeu distanced themselves from wetdream, I wish mTl best of luck though.
Sounds more like that WetDream abandoned CLG.eu because he wasn't getting the recognition he wanted. Hopefully CLG has no problem running both teams.
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On January 31 2012 07:51 Craton wrote:
I prefer playing Janna anyway. It's not really the support sustain that's OP so much as the other things they provide (soraka's giant armor buff and burst healing with ult + w, sona's burst damage + aoe stun and free defenses.) AD by like level 8 have a shitload of free sustain just by autoattacking because of lifesteal on dorans/scepter alone, let alone wriggles or bt.
Which reminds me, they need to nerf lifesteal/spell vamp too...
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On January 31 2012 08:15 phyvo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 07:51 Craton wrote:
I prefer playing Janna anyway. It's not really the support sustain that's OP so much as the other things they provide (soraka's giant armor buff and burst healing with ult + w, sona's burst damage + aoe stun and free defenses.) AD by like level 8 have a shitload of free sustain just by autoattacking because of lifesteal on dorans/scepter alone, let alone wriggles or bt. Which reminds me, they need to nerf lifesteal/spell vamp too...
Eh, I don't think its the same. The only way to heal with those is to push your lane (or fight ofc). Which can be punished. Maybe that's the issue with Kennen, he can heal off pushing with WotA and get away with pushing his lane as much as he wants because of his e.
Edit: actually maybe thats the problem with a lot of characters like that, the 'downside' of sustaining as wriggles nidalee/udyr/ahri/etc isn't really a downside because of how much mobility they get. So its less lifesteal/spellvamp thats an issue as it is that plus ungankable-ness.
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Do not let me AP mid because I will carry the shit out of you for the first 15 minutes and then throw the game trying to 1v3 unsuccessfully 3-4 times.
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On January 31 2012 08:23 seRapH wrote:
Do not let me AP mid because I will carry the shit out of you for the first 15 minutes and then throw the game trying to 1v3 unsuccessfully 3-4 times.
I prefer to blame people for not grouping up around me. Rally to me brothers and sisters!
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On January 31 2012 08:22 Treadmill wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 08:15 phyvo wrote:On January 31 2012 07:51 Craton wrote:
I prefer playing Janna anyway. It's not really the support sustain that's OP so much as the other things they provide (soraka's giant armor buff and burst healing with ult + w, sona's burst damage + aoe stun and free defenses.) AD by like level 8 have a shitload of free sustain just by autoattacking because of lifesteal on dorans/scepter alone, let alone wriggles or bt. Which reminds me, they need to nerf lifesteal/spell vamp too... Eh, I don't think its the same. The only way to heal with those is to push your lane (or fight ofc). Which can be punished. Maybe that's the issue with Kennen, he can heal off pushing with WotA and get away with pushing his lane as much as he wants because of his e. Edit: actually maybe thats the problem with a lot of characters like that, the 'downside' of sustaining as wriggles nidalee/udyr/ahri/etc isn't really a downside because of how much mobility they get. So its less lifesteal/spellvamp thats an issue as it is that plus ungankable-ness.
Yes, there are far too many champions with free escapes.
Pushing the lane isn't an issue when you either have tons of escapes or have tons of ward coverage. You don't really have to push the lane very hard to heal up as an AD carry when you're sitting on 21%+ lifesteal.
Lifesteal by itself is fine, but it's the abuse cases in certain scenarios caused by the fact that it doesn't translate evenly across all archetypes or even champions within archetypes. The exact same goes for spell vamp in that it's perfectly fine on mana champions, but completely broken on non-mana champions.
The one thing you could potentially change is how efficiently you can get early life steal, specially with dblades. You already want them for the HP and AD, but the lifesteal is just icing on the cake. Vamp scepter by itself is only done by AD carries, so if you move more of the lifesteal to the item in builds into, you could kill some of the 2 dblade scepter tons of sustain openers. You would hurt some junglers in the process.
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On January 31 2012 08:23 seRapH wrote:
Do not let me AP mid because I will carry the shit out of you for the first 15 minutes and then throw the game trying to 1v3 unsuccessfully 3-4 times.
Triple kill bait is just too tasty 
In other news, I have basically hit 1400 (Well, I am 1396, thats close enough). Time for me to see if it is truly worse than 1200.
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On January 31 2012 08:23 seRapH wrote:
Do not let me AP mid because I will carry the shit out of you for the first 15 minutes and then throw the game trying to 1v3 unsuccessfully 3-4 times.
perfectly describes so many of my games
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On January 31 2012 08:23 seRapH wrote:
Do not let me AP mid because I will carry the shit out of you for the first 15 minutes and then throw the game trying to 1v3 unsuccessfully 3-4 times.
Oh god yes.
I'm vlad w/ about 200 farm, while everyone else has 100~
That totally means I should walk into their whole team and go for the penta right guys? Right?
):
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On January 31 2012 07:40 arnath wrote:
Yeah I wish they'd basically remove all the heals so you could actually play aggressive supports and not just have Soraka laugh as you try to do any long term damage to her carry.
This, I am so sick of this, was playing Leona + Graves we dive onto Cait and get her from 100>1 like 30 seconds later she's standing back in lane with alot more health then us -.-
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On January 31 2012 02:27 turdburgler wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 02:21 Nos- wrote:
Recently had a game where Singed was top vs Nasus. That was the most passive lane I have ever seen, where Singed just runs around with poison and Nasus did his spirit fire thing and the lane was at a complete stalemate. However Nasus farm scales incredibly into the late game where as Singed kind of just... keeps running around with his poison. We had a jungle WW that couldn't really stop Nasus with his ganks either.
My question is how to prevent Nasus from farming into a god in that situation? I think our mid was Morgana against Kennen and I ran Janna with Vayne against Sona/Tristana. Were more team ganks needed to stop Nasus or should we have just picked a better top? singed is a bad counter pick to nasus if you went second. if it was possible i would of probably put ww in lane against nasus then some really aggresive jungler like pantheon if you want to gank nasus out the game.
Shit, could just lanewick + jungle singed. Nasus has no way to escape from WW ulti into fling + glue, and if he's going to live in fear of WW ulti, he's not gonna get his farm. WW doesn't have any need to push the lane to farmymcfarm (in fact he's pretty bad at pushing.) and can instead use his ult & Q to zone nasus and win trades vs someone who can't do anything without going into melee. Wither isn't even that bad because WW can auto->Q just as well as Nasus, but gains more life doing so, and his W/E can help cancel out the slow.
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I don't think heals are the problem. I think people are just trying to kill a lane like that by just switching the support and still giving the ranged ad (who are notable for low burst damage) all the farm. If you wanna kill a soraka lane past level 6 then you had better picked 2 bursty champs and gave them equal farm.
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On January 31 2012 09:35 Cloud wrote:
I don't think heals are the problem. I think people are just trying to kill a lane like that by just switching the support and still giving the ranged ad (who are notable for low burst damage) all the farm. If you wanna kill a soraka lane past level 6 then you had better picked 2 bursty champs and gave them equal farm.
Honestly my point isn't even actually getting the kills. Suppose you're playing some non-sustain support in an aggressive bot lane AD/support combo vs blah + Soraka or Sona and you and your lane partner make some aggressive play. If you don't get the kill, you're basically fucked now because you've spent a bunch of mana/cooldowns/HP trying to get a kill while the other team's Soraka/Sona will just heal their carry back to full in 15 seconds.
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On January 31 2012 09:19 Skithiryx wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 07:40 arnath wrote:
Yeah I wish they'd basically remove all the heals so you could actually play aggressive supports and not just have Soraka laugh as you try to do any long term damage to her carry. This, I am so sick of this, was playing Leona + Graves we dive onto Cait and get her from 100>1 like 30 seconds later she's standing back in lane with alot more health then us -.-
Instagib lanes aren't any better than sustain lanes. I'd say they're much worse, in fact.
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On January 31 2012 09:48 arnath wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 09:35 Cloud wrote:
I don't think heals are the problem. I think people are just trying to kill a lane like that by just switching the support and still giving the ranged ad (who are notable for low burst damage) all the farm. If you wanna kill a soraka lane past level 6 then you had better picked 2 bursty champs and gave them equal farm. Honestly my point isn't even actually getting the kills. Suppose you're playing some non-sustain support in an aggressive bot lane AD/support combo vs blah + Soraka or Sona and you and your lane partner make some aggressive play. If you don't get the kill, you're basically fucked now because you've spent a bunch of mana/cooldowns/HP trying to get a kill while the other team's Soraka/Sona will just heal their carry back to full in 15 seconds.
True for Soraka, agree. Her heal+armor bonus is just... hurpdurp. Really hard to cripple those lanes before she hits like 6-7+, too.
However, any Sona or Taric that pretends being Soraka will get utterly crushed if the enemy lane knows what they're doing. Sona or Taric need to invest SO much more mana (also for them it's a limited resource hurpdurp) to heal people up that they won't have any offensive capabilities left once they've done so.
hint: A Sona/Taric lane without enough mana for offensive shit is pretty pathetic.
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Taric is more limited by his CD. Sona, well, you can run out of mana if you play stupidly. You don't spam level one heal, you use the minimum amount and if you're losing you get it level 3 then start spamming it. Also remember AD carries have pots as well as you usually so you can choose to use it when trading to make use of the armour mr buff, and it helps build up your power chord again after a trade. Sona just feels like you can run oom easier because of the short cd, but if you use your auto hits, passive, and q properly you should be the one making them need heals.
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Soraka is weak. Adds no offensive power to lane for lane control, while sona adds imba q dmg + passive, and taric adds crazy dmg buffs and dmg. If you're running pretty even ad's with sona vs soraka. Sona will win every time. Even taric too.
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On January 31 2012 09:51 Craton wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 09:19 Skithiryx wrote:On January 31 2012 07:40 arnath wrote:
Yeah I wish they'd basically remove all the heals so you could actually play aggressive supports and not just have Soraka laugh as you try to do any long term damage to her carry. This, I am so sick of this, was playing Leona + Graves we dive onto Cait and get her from 100>1 like 30 seconds later she's standing back in lane with alot more health then us -.- Instagib lanes aren't any better than sustain lanes. I'd say they're much worse, in fact.
I don't even mean as an insta-gib, i've been trying out Leona/Yorick/Heimer as supports and no matter how much harassing/trading we attempt to do if they have Raka/Sona in 15 seconds it means nothing.
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My thoughts on botlane is that the other kind of supports (those who offer CC instead of buffs/debuffs) are mostly not very good because of so many escape abilities like flash and heal other champion dashes/blinks, who make it very hard for the CC support to do much in lane.
i havent thought about this for more than 15 minutes, but this might be a big factor imo.
supports are basically just champs that can operate at very low gold income, CC is not affected by that, but still the botlanes with CC are not very successfull if they dont also have sustain like ali and janna with her shield.
I think of those easy escapes wouldnt be there, someone like morgana would be pretty good as support. ae slow/stun, loooong root, CC immunity shield, magic resist debuff. or maybe even annie with her 2 ae stuns in a period of like 6 seconds.
but they lose the lane too hard, party because people can dash out of harms way when they are in a dangerous position, partly because if you dont somwhow 100-0 people, soraka and the likes have them nursed back to full hp in no time.
also, on the note of creepwaves.
u can make the enemy push by building up a bigger wave of some exact size that i havent figured out yet. when it hits the tower it and the following wave have to die to the tower while killing like half of the enemy wave, then he will push.
or it has to be big enough that the following creeps will meet the enemy at his tower and they all die to the tower, this will trigger a big enemy push.
but its tricky with random creep targeting, i havent figured it all out.
also, note that harassing pushes the wave quite a bit because creeps focus on you instead of your creeps.
also, if its lategame and u clear a lane and want it to push instead of doing random stuff so that it puts pressure on the enemy, remove only a few creeps. The more you remove, the faster it pushes and the weaker the push.
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Just saw Regi already climbed at 1600 rating after 15 game or so and is at 44/1 KDA with Ahri after 2 games.
It's really impressive imo because it's still a 5 man team game.
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EPT
