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United States47024 Posts
On January 29 2012 14:44 BlackPaladin wrote:
I said RANGED AD. Your main damage sources in a standard game are your AD ranged and your AP carry. Your bruiser is more of a tanky dps champ that can either be played as a more anti-carry role or a peeler. Sometimes you have 2 bruisers in your team comp from jungle + top even, 1 might peel, one might be more of an anti-carry.
Obviously those are not the only comps you run, BUT, that's "standard" to run atm and we're talking about more standard/optimal builds and choices in the first place I thought?
I think the difference is overblown, and that there are plenty of ADs that could do well by using Triforce, Atmogs, or Wit's (several DO get Triforce) instead of these glass-cannon builds. The idea that "ADs with good enough positioning don't need early defensive stats" comes from a point in time when not every melee carry had some combination of insane mobility/CC reduction), and when burst-threat APs didn't normally have ~1000 engagement range. But that's a discussion for another time.
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RoA and Rylais aren't "tanky AP" items. They're absurdly good AP items that just so happen to have a health component.
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On January 29 2012 15:17 Offhand wrote:
RoA and Rylais aren't "tanky AP" items. They're absurdly good AP items that just so happen to have a health component.
That sounds like nitpicking... they give AP, and make you tanky. Why not just call them a tanky AP item? And they're both kind of mediocre from a damage perspective. I think they're a bit overrated if anything, unless you really need the utility (tons of mana or slow).
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On January 29 2012 15:17 Offhand wrote:
RoA and Rylais aren't "tanky AP" items. They're absurdly good AP items that just so happen to have a health component.
what would u consider tanky AP items then? Abyssal? What else? -.-;
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On January 29 2012 15:30 starfries wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2012 15:17 Offhand wrote:
RoA and Rylais aren't "tanky AP" items. They're absurdly good AP items that just so happen to have a health component. That sounds like nitpicking... they give AP, and make you tanky. Why not just call them a tanky AP item? And they're both kind of mediocre from a damage perspective. I think they're a bit overrated if anything, unless you really need the utility (tons of mana or slow).
I never like building a Rylai straight-up as a 2nd/3rd item unless I REALLY need the slow. Tbh, if you need to get a bit beefy on an AP, just get cata/belt+chainmail+negatron as and when you need it. Finishing those items into a rylai, abyssal etc early just gimps your damage too much.
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On January 29 2012 15:05 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2012 14:44 BlackPaladin wrote:
I said RANGED AD. Your main damage sources in a standard game are your AD ranged and your AP carry. Your bruiser is more of a tanky dps champ that can either be played as a more anti-carry role or a peeler. Sometimes you have 2 bruisers in your team comp from jungle + top even, 1 might peel, one might be more of an anti-carry.
Obviously those are not the only comps you run, BUT, that's "standard" to run atm and we're talking about more standard/optimal builds and choices in the first place I thought? I think the difference is overblown, and that there are plenty of ADs that could do well by using Triforce, Atmogs, or Wit's (several DO get Triforce) instead of these glass-cannon builds. The idea that "ADs with good enough positioning don't need early defensive stats" comes from a point in time when not every melee carry had some combination of insane mobility/CC reduction), and when burst-threat APs didn't normally have ~1000 engagement range. But that's a discussion for another time.
One thing that I would like to point out is that Yellowpete, CLGeu's AD carry, built a wits end in the game v mTL (g1) so that he wouldn't be stomped by mTl's double AP comp, which I believe worked very very well for him on Sivir.
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On January 29 2012 15:46 anmolsinghmzn2009 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2012 15:30 starfries wrote:On January 29 2012 15:17 Offhand wrote:
RoA and Rylais aren't "tanky AP" items. They're absurdly good AP items that just so happen to have a health component. That sounds like nitpicking... they give AP, and make you tanky. Why not just call them a tanky AP item? And they're both kind of mediocre from a damage perspective. I think they're a bit overrated if anything, unless you really need the utility (tons of mana or slow). I never like building a Rylai straight-up as a 2nd/3rd item unless I REALLY need the slow. Tbh, if you need to get a bit beefy on an AP, just get cata/belt+chainmail+negatron as and when you need it. Finishing those items into a rylai, abyssal etc early just gimps your damage too much.
rush hat like real man, death is best cc
I kind of like going catalyst > deathcap > banshee's, pretty cute build for roaming around since people can't CC you and run away.
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FUCK YOU LEAGUE OF LEGENDS CLIENT. Just had to dodge a ranked because I couldn't select a champ from an empty list.
User was warned for this post
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On January 29 2012 15:56 starfries wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2012 15:46 anmolsinghmzn2009 wrote:On January 29 2012 15:30 starfries wrote:On January 29 2012 15:17 Offhand wrote:
RoA and Rylais aren't "tanky AP" items. They're absurdly good AP items that just so happen to have a health component. That sounds like nitpicking... they give AP, and make you tanky. Why not just call them a tanky AP item? And they're both kind of mediocre from a damage perspective. I think they're a bit overrated if anything, unless you really need the utility (tons of mana or slow). I never like building a Rylai straight-up as a 2nd/3rd item unless I REALLY need the slow. Tbh, if you need to get a bit beefy on an AP, just get cata/belt+chainmail+negatron as and when you need it. Finishing those items into a rylai, abyssal etc early just gimps your damage too much. rush hat like real man, death is best cc I kind of like going catalyst > deathcap > banshee's, pretty cute build for roaming around since people can't CC you and run away.
I said I don't like finishing rylai as my '2nd/3rd' main item. First item is always DC.
Don't you dare doubt me. >.>
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On January 29 2012 15:17 Offhand wrote:
RoA and Rylais aren't "tanky AP" items. They're absurdly good AP items that just so happen to have a health component.
They're as much tanky items as Atma's or Wit's End are. They have components split fairly evenly between HP and AP, with a third effect (Mana / Slow) added in. How is Rylai's significantly different from Hourglass or Abyssal?
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On January 29 2012 15:56 starfries wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2012 15:46 anmolsinghmzn2009 wrote:On January 29 2012 15:30 starfries wrote:On January 29 2012 15:17 Offhand wrote:
RoA and Rylais aren't "tanky AP" items. They're absurdly good AP items that just so happen to have a health component. That sounds like nitpicking... they give AP, and make you tanky. Why not just call them a tanky AP item? And they're both kind of mediocre from a damage perspective. I think they're a bit overrated if anything, unless you really need the utility (tons of mana or slow). I never like building a Rylai straight-up as a 2nd/3rd item unless I REALLY need the slow. Tbh, if you need to get a bit beefy on an AP, just get cata/belt+chainmail+negatron as and when you need it. Finishing those items into a rylai, abyssal etc early just gimps your damage too much. rush hat like real man, death is best cc I kind of like going catalyst > deathcap > banshee's, pretty cute build for roaming around since people can't CC you and run away.
Unless you build WotA or are reliant on mana there's no reason for an AP carry not to get 2-3 Drings and go Dcap -> Void staff or Zhonya's. Dring stacking is about as strong as cata in lane on most APs imo. I think that going Cata -> Dcap -> BV can be good on a few champions (Swain comes to mind) but for the most part Dring stack is better for winning your lane if you aren't super reliant on mana or if you aren't one of the APs that rushes WotA.
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On January 29 2012 16:32 overt wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2012 15:56 starfries wrote:On January 29 2012 15:46 anmolsinghmzn2009 wrote:On January 29 2012 15:30 starfries wrote:On January 29 2012 15:17 Offhand wrote:
RoA and Rylais aren't "tanky AP" items. They're absurdly good AP items that just so happen to have a health component. That sounds like nitpicking... they give AP, and make you tanky. Why not just call them a tanky AP item? And they're both kind of mediocre from a damage perspective. I think they're a bit overrated if anything, unless you really need the utility (tons of mana or slow). I never like building a Rylai straight-up as a 2nd/3rd item unless I REALLY need the slow. Tbh, if you need to get a bit beefy on an AP, just get cata/belt+chainmail+negatron as and when you need it. Finishing those items into a rylai, abyssal etc early just gimps your damage too much. rush hat like real man, death is best cc I kind of like going catalyst > deathcap > banshee's, pretty cute build for roaming around since people can't CC you and run away. Unless you build WotA or are reliant on mana there's no reason for an AP carry not to get 2-3 Drings and go Dcap -> Void staff or Zhonya's. Dring stacking is about as strong as cata in lane on most APs imo. I think that going Cata -> Dcap -> BV can be good on a few champions (Swain comes to mind) but for the most part Dring stack is better for winning your lane if you aren't super reliant on mana or if you aren't one of the APs that rushes WotA.
Its kinda what I like about Karthus. He doesn't insta burst people down but he does insane sustained dmg and his Q can do some nasty dmg as well. Glass cannon on him can work but so can tanky Karthus because even if you build all the "tanky" ap items on him he still does a lot of dmg.
But his passive makes him so relatively unique as well as his global nuke.
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On January 29 2012 15:59 wussleeQ wrote:
rage
If your champion list doesnt load use the search bar to search for a champion will force it to load. just remove the search again to see your entire list.
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Australia18228 Posts
On January 29 2012 15:53 dooraven wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2012 15:05 TheYango wrote:On January 29 2012 14:44 BlackPaladin wrote:
I said RANGED AD. Your main damage sources in a standard game are your AD ranged and your AP carry. Your bruiser is more of a tanky dps champ that can either be played as a more anti-carry role or a peeler. Sometimes you have 2 bruisers in your team comp from jungle + top even, 1 might peel, one might be more of an anti-carry.
Obviously those are not the only comps you run, BUT, that's "standard" to run atm and we're talking about more standard/optimal builds and choices in the first place I thought? I think the difference is overblown, and that there are plenty of ADs that could do well by using Triforce, Atmogs, or Wit's (several DO get Triforce) instead of these glass-cannon builds. The idea that "ADs with good enough positioning don't need early defensive stats" comes from a point in time when not every melee carry had some combination of insane mobility/CC reduction), and when burst-threat APs didn't normally have ~1000 engagement range. But that's a discussion for another time. One thing that I would like to point out is that Yellowpete, CLGeu's AD carry, built a wits end in the game v mTL (g1) so that he wouldn't be stomped by mTl's double AP comp, which I believe worked very very well for him on Sivir.
Builds for AD carry that stray away from the glass cannon IE/BT into PD only work in a premade/if you trust your allies enough. Items like Wit's End and early defensive items (Wriggle's) means that you're basically relying on your team (mainly top and mid) to win the teamfights while you just focus on staying alive in order to gain gold/EXP and eventually become strong late-game.
Also: Has anyone actually tried AP Corki before? His Q is on a medium CD easy-to-hit skill with pretty good damage and alright ratios (0.4AP?), which lets you harass quite well in lane. His W can do around the same amount of damage/sec as Rumble's ult (but on a short duration = less damage overall) and his R can be really strong, especially if they bunch up. He can also gank pretty well, as he can Valkyrie in and his Q+R(big one) combo can deal around 700-800 damage.
The problem is that I'm having trouble finding a good build order for him. I've tried Doran -> Tear -> Deathcap -> AA, but AA isn't worth the AP and it leaves you relatively squishy (making it hard to use W in a teamfight). Maybe something like Rylai -> Deathcap -> Zhonya or a spell-vamp Hextech -> Rylai could work.
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On January 29 2012 17:58 Gorsameth wrote:If your champion list doesnt load use the search bar to search for a champion will force it to load. just remove the search again to see your entire list.
Tried it. Tried everything I was used to doing when something like that happens lol. What norada says up there^^
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Even then you don't have to dodge, just roll with random. A legitimate reason to hardrandom is something a bunch of people would love to have.
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Hmmm, I think I just jumped a level in LoL, in terms of game mechanics and game sense. I've recently been noticing that I've been able to get my CS much higher than I would previously been able too. Even just playing jungler I'll out CS everyone on my team, even in a 40min long match. I don't know why people are so obsessed with getting the kills, but then don't cs at all. The best way to keep a lead in the lane is to make sure you keep your CS up. Every time I see my bot lane with 3 kills up but down in cs, I just want to face palm.
Tl;dr
CS and gold wins games, not just kills.
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killing heroes more fun than killing creeps ok.
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Russian Federation4235 Posts
People need to start to realize that item builds (on AP carries in particular) are not something that is set in stone at a particular moment (like, "k we all build WotA now"), but instead are completely based on team comps and the items your opponents build. Like if you see an IE/PD Ashe in the enemy team, it's retarded to go for Warmog's on a caster because with a D-cap you could just one-shot her. On the other hand, when they have Kennen/Ahri who are guaranteed to do their damage no matter what, but have little to do when their ults are down (because their ults are really like 50% of their DPS), it might make sense to build some HP to outlast them.
People talk too much about metagame changes and jump on bandwagons too eagerly. Survivability builds on certain casters (mostly around RoA) have been around for ages, for instance, you built Annie tanky before her AP ratios got buffed on almost everything.
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EPT
