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On January 06 2012 05:50 BlackMagister wrote:
Well TOO might have been building differently because he was vs triple AD, still I think I do remember TOO building Skarner more tanky while SV builds Skarner do more damage. TOO also saying TSM going to skrim SK soon.
Oddone plays a support style of jungling, saint plays a carry style.
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United States37500 Posts
On January 06 2012 05:59 Two_DoWn wrote:
My favorite SV quote:
"Ward? Whats a ward? Is that the thing that comes out of a wriggles?"
That made me lol irl. I read that quote with saint goofy/sarcastic voice no less.
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When will they make a decent shaco skin??? I love this champ, but not a single decent skin for him.....
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On January 06 2012 06:05 wei2coolman wrote:
When will they make a decent shaco skin??? I love this champ, but not a single decent skin for him.....
Uhhh, let's not talk about it. I hate Cass's two skins, I would really love one for her.
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
On January 06 2012 05:37 daemir wrote:
Oddone always buys a looot of wards. Like, triple compared to SV.
Convinced that Saintvicious doesn't know what wards are.
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On January 06 2012 06:07 jcarlsoniv wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2012 06:05 wei2coolman wrote:
When will they make a decent shaco skin??? I love this champ, but not a single decent skin for him..... Uhhh, let's not talk about it. I hate Cass's two skins, I would really love one for her.
With that being said, I want to get the Kitty Cat Katarina skin sooooooooo badly, along w/ the Red Card Katarina.
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On January 06 2012 05:31 Brees wrote:
i dabble with kat at 1900 if that counts
go top lane, spam BB with your trollface on, farm while other top has to repeatedly b after about lvl 7-ish. get gunblade/rylai's, win game.
21-9 heal/ignite lots of ap rune page
Have you considered running 9 0 21 taking spell vamp and spell vamp quints? you get 9% spell vamp from start and 24% with a revolver(its 15 right? lol forgot) and even more when you build wota>rylai
you can pretty much permanently stay in your lane
i asked scarra about this and he told me that its not worth it to get spell vamp, im gonna leave his reply in this spoiler
+ Show Spoiler +re: Katarina
from scarra sent 1 hour ago
spell quint runes are awful on her.
Her Q and R are considered aoe spells and vamp considerably less, and they have huge cds at early levels.
cdr is nice but doesn't help your laning phase at all. I would recommend mr flats, armor yellows, and magic pen reds.
21-9-0 for kat.
wota is ok, but she really needs a reliable slow. A ranged 600 slow from gunblade allows you to set up ganks in your lane much better and get picks on the enemy team.
Anyway, u get 21 9 0, right? Not 21 0 9? Why do you go top and not mid? Seems to me like you're not gonna get much action top, just going to have to farm and rely on your jungler tanking.
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On January 06 2012 06:09 Roffles wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2012 05:37 daemir wrote:
Oddone always buys a looot of wards. Like, triple compared to SV. Convinced that Saintvicious doesn't know what wards are.
Interestingly enough, he said once on stream that if the mid buys wards for himself, he'll buy a ward to cover the other side. But if mid doesn't buy wards, then fuck him I'm not buying wards either.
I'm shellshocked every time I see him buy a ward. You know, both times.
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United States37500 Posts
Kat is really about bursting your enemies down one by one with her kit + proc'ing her passive with each kill. You don't need Vamp like you do with Kennen. Spell Vamp (WotA) is great but an active slow (Gunblade) is even better because it helps ensure a kill.
21 9 0 with scarra's page.
With that said, I think Kat belongs mid, not top.
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On January 06 2012 06:14 NeoIllusions wrote:
Kat is really about bursting your enemies down one by one with her kit + proc'ing her passive with each kill. You don't need Vamp like you do with Kennen. Spell Vamp (WotA) is great but an active slow (Gunblade) is even better because it helps ensure a kill.
21 9 0 with scarra's page.
With that said, I think Kat belongs mid, not top.
kat's probably really good vs. like trynd/riven/otherstrictlymelee assholes. I also think Kat beats nid and akali, but it's also possible (likely) that I just suck with nid and akali.
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On January 06 2012 06:15 Mogwai wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2012 06:14 NeoIllusions wrote:
Kat is really about bursting your enemies down one by one with her kit + proc'ing her passive with each kill. You don't need Vamp like you do with Kennen. Spell Vamp (WotA) is great but an active slow (Gunblade) is even better because it helps ensure a kill.
21 9 0 with scarra's page.
With that said, I think Kat belongs mid, not top. kat's probably really good vs. like trynd/riven/otherstrictlymelee assholes. I also think Kat beats nid and akali, but it's also possible (likely) that I just suck with nid and akali.
kat does ok vs trynd, riven, renek, etc. roflstomps nasus and gp
she loses to wriggles AD nid but wrecks akali hard
i feel like irelia is a pain once she gets her philo stone/wriggles
TiensiNoAkuma is supposed to main kat at around 2k dunno how good he actually is though
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On January 06 2012 05:49 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2012 05:42 Seuss wrote:
That's not quite enough for the jungler to count as a full carry, but it's a very significant amount nonetheless. It's not a simple issue of farming during the laning phase. It has much more to do with how farm is prioritized after the laning phase (who gets to clean up pushed lanes, who takes camps when they're up, etc.). Nobody gets to carry status off just their laning phase farm, and trying to split farm evenly among 4-5 people past laning phase will produce less reliable results, particularly when it comes to certain champions exploding after certain core items, certain champions not needing anything after their core, and the multiplicative scaling of both offensive and defensive stats. It's almost never the case that all 3 lanes are farmable past midgame. Usually you only have 1 lane where a big wave is coming and someone can clean up that farm--the other 2 lanes are either too pushed out or has the enemy team actively pushing them, making them too dangerous to farm efficiently. TOO getting that easy-to-farm lane means either TRM, Regi, or Chaox is NOT getting that farm. It's not the laning phase where "support" junglers get behind. They'll keep up with that 80% figure reasonably through then. It's when they stick with the team for all the fights, and never clean up the pushed lanes because letting the carries get that gold does more--THAT'S when the jungler's farm dips down to 50-60% of laner farm. Consequently, that's where laners have to be giving up farm for junglers to get farmed to carry status.
I feel like you took a bunch of puzzle pieces I'd collected and stared at for a while, juggled them in the air, and then threw them down perfectly into a completed puzzle while declaring, "BEHOLD."
That was enlightening, thank you.
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Marshall Islands3404 Posts
kat can work mid but she has a lot of matchups there that are really difficult and most mids have some form of very reliable CC/they always take ignite. I find the heal/ignte setup works way better top since not everyone takes ignite top. also your much more likely to get camped mid since kat has to play aggressive and its at no cost to the jungler to stay mid. If he fails a gank top, your team most likely gets dragon which allows you to play way more aggressive top. (also less gank routes)
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yeah, TheYango should be the admin of the lol subforum. he's 100% the most elaborate, thoughtful, and insightful poster we have
i agree with nearly everything he says and even the things i disagree with, i can completely see where he's coming from
(no offense to the other big thinking posters, spinesheath, niton, gizmo, navi, etc, but yango is just ze best)
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On January 06 2012 05:49 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2012 05:42 Seuss wrote:
That's not quite enough for the jungler to count as a full carry, but it's a very significant amount nonetheless. It's not a simple issue of farming during the laning phase. It has much more to do with how farm is prioritized after the laning phase (who gets to clean up pushed lanes, who takes camps when they're up, etc.). Nobody gets to carry status off just their laning phase farm, and trying to split farm evenly among 4-5 people past laning phase will produce less reliable results, particularly when it comes to certain champions exploding after certain core items, certain champions not needing anything after their core, and the multiplicative scaling of both offensive and defensive stats. It's almost never the case that all 3 lanes are farmable past midgame. Usually you only have 1 lane where a big wave is coming and someone can clean up that farm--the other 2 lanes are either too pushed out or has the enemy team actively pushing them, making them too dangerous to farm efficiently. TOO getting that easy-to-farm lane means either TRM, Regi, or Chaox is NOT getting that farm. It's not the laning phase where "support" junglers get behind. They'll keep up with that 80% figure reasonably through then. It's when they stick with the team for all the fights, and never clean up the pushed lanes because letting the carries get that gold does more--THAT'S when the jungler's farm dips down to 50-60% of laner farm. Consequently, that's where laners have to be giving up farm for junglers to get farmed to carry status.
Well, an important thing to point out is that SV will take waves during laning phase. Moreso than late game farm, being able to keep up with farm in terms of getting quick gp5 or wriggles is very important. Saint is the best jungle in the game simply because of the speed at which he can get to wriggles or philo/hog. Its that point that you really start to steamroll as a jungle.
Waiting for midgame farm is way to late. You have to be optimizing farm early in order to even have a shot at deserving farm midgame.
Hell, midgame farm isnt even that important in terms of giving it to certain people. Whenever a wave needs to be cleared, it should go to whoever is closest to their next big item. Like if the ad needs the wave for a pd, or the ap needs a void staff. Jungle rides their first purchase, whereas other lanes are more linear in terms of their buys.
Saint never gets that sort of farm because double, jiji, and hotshot take all of it. He just rides his early game all the way into late game by playing selectively aggressive and building optimally.
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United States47024 Posts
On January 06 2012 06:36 Two_DoWn wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2012 05:49 TheYango wrote:On January 06 2012 05:42 Seuss wrote:
That's not quite enough for the jungler to count as a full carry, but it's a very significant amount nonetheless. It's not a simple issue of farming during the laning phase. It has much more to do with how farm is prioritized after the laning phase (who gets to clean up pushed lanes, who takes camps when they're up, etc.). Nobody gets to carry status off just their laning phase farm, and trying to split farm evenly among 4-5 people past laning phase will produce less reliable results, particularly when it comes to certain champions exploding after certain core items, certain champions not needing anything after their core, and the multiplicative scaling of both offensive and defensive stats. It's almost never the case that all 3 lanes are farmable past midgame. Usually you only have 1 lane where a big wave is coming and someone can clean up that farm--the other 2 lanes are either too pushed out or has the enemy team actively pushing them, making them too dangerous to farm efficiently. TOO getting that easy-to-farm lane means either TRM, Regi, or Chaox is NOT getting that farm. It's not the laning phase where "support" junglers get behind. They'll keep up with that 80% figure reasonably through then. It's when they stick with the team for all the fights, and never clean up the pushed lanes because letting the carries get that gold does more--THAT'S when the jungler's farm dips down to 50-60% of laner farm. Consequently, that's where laners have to be giving up farm for junglers to get farmed to carry status. Well, an important thing to point out is that SV will take waves during laning phase. Moreso than late game farm, being able to keep up with farm in terms of getting quick gp5 or wriggles is very important. Saint is the best jungle in the game simply because of the speed at which he can get to wriggles or philo/hog. Its that point that you really start to steamroll as a jungle. Waiting for midgame farm is way to late. You have to be optimizing farm early in order to even have a shot at deserving farm midgame.
I think the 80% figure that Seuss gave is more than enough to get you to midgame. The main thing early game is to not WASTE farm. If a laner has to back, or dies, cleaning up the farm from that lane is more efficient than getting camps, this is true.
And Saint does get quite a lot of midgame farm. He definitely does clean up pushed lanes, and particularly on certain junglers, he will solo push lanes rather than being the guy sitting at tower cleaning up enemy creeps as they hit tower.
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This is really just one more reason we need an sc2 gears for lol.
How much more useful would it be to see gold income over time instead of the total damage you did to minions.
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double post but who the hell cares-
TSM-SK scrim goin down right NAO
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EPT
