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On January 14 2012 19:02 JackDino wrote:
I didn't say cho needs to build MORE tanky than Irelia or Udyr, I said that a cho that doesn't itemize tank isn't tanky at all, after you said that a cho is tanky without itemizing for it, which pretty much means you only get hp from your ult and no resists(buying items with both damage and resists means you are actually itemizing to be tanky).
If a recurve is your only offensive item, you're better off getting stark's on cho/skarner over an ionic spark imo, it helps your team, gives you lifesteal and hp5 which should make you tankier than 250hp, you're alive longer, you do more damage. Same with wit's.
Ionic spark can't bounce to the same target more than once, wit's is better for single target output.
Yeah, agree; it's pretty much Starks vs IS vs Wits.
Uh, stupid question but how does the gold value of 250 health vs 30-50 mres look like? Unless I'm being stupid right now IS should always outdamage Wits whenever it hits more than one person. That is assuming you get all four attacks off which is kinda tricky again. -.-v
The "you're alive longer, you do more damage"-argument always struck me as not that clever.
Extreme case: I'm an Amumu with warmogs, Thornmail, FoN and Banshees. Will I live damn long? Most likely. Will me being alive actually accomplish shit by crying all day? Nope.
Imo the goal of tanks/bruisers (huehue) should be to balance offense and defense in a way that if you try to ignore them they rape you but if you don't ignore them they give the real damage enough time to rain down on the enemy team. Too much emphasize on damage and you get killed too quickly, too much emphasize on tankyness and you can be ignored for too long.
PS: Excuse me for always ruining the "lol riot is so stupid"-party, but I keep hoping that changes here and there actually make sense and are well thought-out. Sorry. =D
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we did the math a while back with the test realm version (which is stronger than the current version) and it was quite competitive with wit's end. If they don't buff it at the same time they port it it's pretty much 100% garbage though.
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On January 14 2012 19:09 r.Evo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2012 19:02 JackDino wrote:
I didn't say cho needs to build MORE tanky than Irelia or Udyr, I said that a cho that doesn't itemize tank isn't tanky at all, after you said that a cho is tanky without itemizing for it, which pretty much means you only get hp from your ult and no resists(buying items with both damage and resists means you are actually itemizing to be tanky).
If a recurve is your only offensive item, you're better off getting stark's on cho/skarner over an ionic spark imo, it helps your team, gives you lifesteal and hp5 which should make you tankier than 250hp, you're alive longer, you do more damage. Same with wit's.
Ionic spark can't bounce to the same target more than once, wit's is better for single target output. Yeah, agree; it's pretty much Starks vs IS vs Wits. Uh, stupid question but how does the gold value of 250 health vs 30-50 mres look like? Unless I'm being stupid right now IS should always outdamage Wits whenever it hits more than one person. That is assuming you get all four attacks off which is kinda tricky again. -.-v The "you're alive longer, you do more damage"-argument always struck me as not that clever. Extreme case: I'm an Amumu with warmogs, Thornmail, FoN and Banshees. Will I live damn long? Most likely. Will me being alive actually accomplish shit by crying all day? Nope. Imo the goal of tanks/bruisers (huehue) should be to balance offense and defense in a way that if you try to ignore them they rape you but if you don't ignore them they give the real damage enough time to rain down on the enemy team. Too much emphasize on damage and you get killed too quickly, too much emphasize on tankyness and you can be ignored for too long. PS: Excuse me for always ruining the "lol riot is so stupid"-party, but I keep hoping that changes here and there actually make sense and are well thought-out. Sorry. =D
Except you're not itemizing on doing damage for amumu, but your choice was to itemize for damage on cho, big difference.
If you replace that banshees with a deathcap you'll live damn long and do tons of damage.
Thing is, you don't need to really itemize for more damage on cho, itemizing for tank is almost always better since he's so damn big everyone can just hide behind you, do damage, and it's hard for them to get big.
Try dpsing a fucking trist hiding inside a giant cho.
Skarner already does insane amounts of damage without really building damage(just a triforce). Building more damage on him isn't really as good as building tankier on him and just sticking on your target(wether you want to kill it or peel it for your carries).
Actually IS might be really nice on skarner if you're really tanky and are able to get 2+ champs on your Q.
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ionic spark gonna be OP with TF, huehuehue
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Hey guys ! I have some questions concerning jungling, do you know where I can find a guide explaining how to jungle ?
I only play LoL for a couple of month so I'm only a 1400 elo scrub but jungling is the only role where I have little to no clue, I watch a lot of jungle streamer (TOO, sv, Dyrus, Snoopeh.. etc) but I'd like to learn the basics, like what path for which champ, how to counter jungle, when to gank, what runes should i use.. etc.
Thanks for the answer !
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On January 14 2012 20:28 Lylat wrote:
Hey guys ! I have some questions concerning jungling, do you know where I can find a guide explaining how to jungle ?
I only play LoL for a couple of month so I'm only a 1400 elo scrub but jungling is the only role where I have little to no clue, I watch a lot of jungle streamer (TOO, sv, Dyrus, Snoopeh.. etc) but I'd like to learn the basics, like what path for which champ, how to counter jungle, when to gank, what runes should i use.. etc.
Thanks for the answer !
http://solomid.net/guides.php?g=12408
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The only buffs I want to see for Ionic Spark is to have it proc every hit. I don't care if it does 1 damage, I would buy it for the sheer awesome.
Also Tiamat needs an effect. I guarantee people would start getting it if they just added Kayle's E particle, so you could see your sweet-ass splash damage.
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is it intended that spart just does less dps than wits? i mean its not even close. i can see how tf might like it to synergise with burst but wits is like 50% more proc dmg and similar offensive stats. apart from the cool effect i dont really see the point of its existance in a world where we have wits.
people have talked about the aoe part helping vayne farm, but by the time a vayne is saying, ive got my 3 core items and boots. shes already 1 shoting minions, a 100 dmg proc wont help her at all.
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On January 14 2012 21:26 turdburgler wrote:
is it intended that spart just does less dps than wits? i mean its not even close. i can see how tf might like it to synergise with burst but wits is like 50% more proc dmg and similar offensive stats. apart from the cool effect i dont really see the point of its existance in a world where we have wits.
people have talked about the aoe part helping vayne farm, but by the time a vayne is saying, ive got my 3 core items and boots. shes already 1 shoting minions, a 100 dmg proc wont help her at all.
It's 110 damage every four hits. That's 27.5 per hit. So long as you hit at least 2 people, you're getting more damage per hit than wits end - and with 400 range that's not unreasonable like it would be with tiamat.
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On January 14 2012 21:36 Shanba wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2012 21:26 turdburgler wrote:
is it intended that spart just does less dps than wits? i mean its not even close. i can see how tf might like it to synergise with burst but wits is like 50% more proc dmg and similar offensive stats. apart from the cool effect i dont really see the point of its existance in a world where we have wits.
people have talked about the aoe part helping vayne farm, but by the time a vayne is saying, ive got my 3 core items and boots. shes already 1 shoting minions, a 100 dmg proc wont help her at all. It's 110 damage every four hits. That's 27.5 per hit. So long as you hit at least 2 people, you're getting more damage per hit than wits end - and with 400 range that's not unreasonable like it would be with tiamat.
but you arent an aoe champ, if your job is to kill someone as quick as possible, 20 dps into the support or the tank doesnt mean a thing.
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On January 14 2012 21:36 Shanba wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2012 21:26 turdburgler wrote:
is it intended that spart just does less dps than wits? i mean its not even close. i can see how tf might like it to synergise with burst but wits is like 50% more proc dmg and similar offensive stats. apart from the cool effect i dont really see the point of its existance in a world where we have wits.
people have talked about the aoe part helping vayne farm, but by the time a vayne is saying, ive got my 3 core items and boots. shes already 1 shoting minions, a 100 dmg proc wont help her at all. It's 110 damage every four hits. That's 27.5 per hit. So long as you hit at least 2 people, you're getting more damage per hit than wits end - and with 400 range that's not unreasonable like it would be with tiamat.
Even if statistically it didn't compare to wits, I think it might be useful help some some champs who can't farm to lane against champs that can push super hard. Opens up a lot of possible lanes that normally you either hope to god for jungle pressure and/or just flat out lose.
Speaking of Tiamats, it stacks really well with Shyvana's Q in Dragon form... I grabbed it as a troll 6th item the other day and proceeded to watch it melt an entire team. Your Q splash counts as auto attack damage, so tiamat does 400 aoe dmage again pretty well throughout the Q's splash radius. It might be a bug, but the damage was ridonkulous. I literally 1v5'd for four kills and the other guy escaped into his fountain. I feel like it might have even been a touch bugged... but damn it was impressive.
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On January 14 2012 22:16 iCanada wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2012 21:36 Shanba wrote:On January 14 2012 21:26 turdburgler wrote:
is it intended that spart just does less dps than wits? i mean its not even close. i can see how tf might like it to synergise with burst but wits is like 50% more proc dmg and similar offensive stats. apart from the cool effect i dont really see the point of its existance in a world where we have wits.
people have talked about the aoe part helping vayne farm, but by the time a vayne is saying, ive got my 3 core items and boots. shes already 1 shoting minions, a 100 dmg proc wont help her at all. It's 110 damage every four hits. That's 27.5 per hit. So long as you hit at least 2 people, you're getting more damage per hit than wits end - and with 400 range that's not unreasonable like it would be with tiamat. Even if statistically it didn't compare to wits, I think it might be useful help some some champs who can't farm to lane against champs that can push super hard. Opens up a lot of possible lanes that normally you either hope to god for jungle pressure and/or just flat out lose. Speaking of Tiamats, it stacks really well with Shyvana's Q in Dragon form... I grabbed it as a troll 6th item the other day and proceeded to watch it melt an entire team. Your Q splash counts as auto attack damage, so tiamat does 400 aoe dmage again pretty well throughout the Q's splash radius. It might be a bug, but the damage was ridonkulous. I literally 1v5'd for four kills and the other guy escaped into his fountain. I feel like it might have even been a touch bugged... but damn it was impressive.
it works the same way with twitches ultimate, its not a bug.
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I'm looking for PPL to play 5s unranked with me, I usually play atleast 2-3 games a day.
add me: Yi Mu You
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On January 14 2012 17:14 Two_DoWn wrote:
And screw it- but one more COMPLETELY unrelated topic:
Nothing makes you feel dirtier than running the following rune set up on GP:
Crit chance reds, armor yellows, mr/lvl blues, armpen quints. 12.4% crit at level 1 with the masteries. Its essentially the equivalent of the Korean 4 warpgate in base shenanigans from very early beta. It literally cannot fail.
Its guaranteed first blood. I had 4 crits and first blood on the riven I was against by the time I had hit level 3. Shit is just unfair. It doesnt even matter if they open cloth 5. You just rip through them with the crits.
And I still maintain that you're a massive douchebag for doing this.
It just shows how badly crit needs to be removed early game.
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On January 14 2012 23:23 jcarlsoniv wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2012 17:14 Two_DoWn wrote:
And screw it- but one more COMPLETELY unrelated topic:
Nothing makes you feel dirtier than running the following rune set up on GP:
Crit chance reds, armor yellows, mr/lvl blues, armpen quints. 12.4% crit at level 1 with the masteries. Its essentially the equivalent of the Korean 4 warpgate in base shenanigans from very early beta. It literally cannot fail.
Its guaranteed first blood. I had 4 crits and first blood on the riven I was against by the time I had hit level 3. Shit is just unfair. It doesnt even matter if they open cloth 5. You just rip through them with the crits. And I still maintain that you're a massive douchebag for doing this. It just shows how badly crit needs to be removed early game.
Not crit. Unitemized crits. Masteries/Runes crits removed and it's ok. If a GP comes in lane with a brawler's glove just use it to your advantage.
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TL B ran Tiamat Shyv + Orianna awhile back for the lulz but you really just have problems setting it up. Without Ori it's impossible if the other team aren't idiots but with Ori it still isn't that good.
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i personally think this "anti random" crit calculation is just broken, people get way more crits than they should with 4%.
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On January 14 2012 19:24 JackDino wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2012 19:09 r.Evo wrote:On January 14 2012 19:02 JackDino wrote:
I didn't say cho needs to build MORE tanky than Irelia or Udyr, I said that a cho that doesn't itemize tank isn't tanky at all, after you said that a cho is tanky without itemizing for it, which pretty much means you only get hp from your ult and no resists(buying items with both damage and resists means you are actually itemizing to be tanky).
If a recurve is your only offensive item, you're better off getting stark's on cho/skarner over an ionic spark imo, it helps your team, gives you lifesteal and hp5 which should make you tankier than 250hp, you're alive longer, you do more damage. Same with wit's.
Ionic spark can't bounce to the same target more than once, wit's is better for single target output. Yeah, agree; it's pretty much Starks vs IS vs Wits. Uh, stupid question but how does the gold value of 250 health vs 30-50 mres look like? Unless I'm being stupid right now IS should always outdamage Wits whenever it hits more than one person. That is assuming you get all four attacks off which is kinda tricky again. -.-v The "you're alive longer, you do more damage"-argument always struck me as not that clever. Extreme case: I'm an Amumu with warmogs, Thornmail, FoN and Banshees. Will I live damn long? Most likely. Will me being alive actually accomplish shit by crying all day? Nope. Imo the goal of tanks/bruisers (huehue) should be to balance offense and defense in a way that if you try to ignore them they rape you but if you don't ignore them they give the real damage enough time to rain down on the enemy team. Too much emphasize on damage and you get killed too quickly, too much emphasize on tankyness and you can be ignored for too long. PS: Excuse me for always ruining the "lol riot is so stupid"-party, but I keep hoping that changes here and there actually make sense and are well thought-out. Sorry. =D Except you're not itemizing on doing damage for amumu, but your choice was to itemize for damage on cho, big difference. If you replace that banshees with a deathcap you'll live damn long and do tons of damage. Thing is, you don't need to really itemize for more damage on cho, itemizing for tank is almost always better since he's so damn big everyone can just hide behind you, do damage, and it's hard for them to get big. Try dpsing a fucking trist hiding inside a giant cho. Skarner already does insane amounts of damage without really building damage(just a triforce). Building more damage on him isn't really as good as building tankier on him and just sticking on your target(wether you want to kill it or peel it for your carries). Actually IS might be really nice on skarner if you're really tanky and are able to get 2+ champs on your Q.
Ahh, here we got where we differ. =D
The times where I feel as if I can build Triforce from a jungling Skarner only occur when I'm pretty damn fat. Considering people play stupid vs Skarner it's highly likely, but still... =P
If you have a game with low kills something like Philo -> HoG -> IMGONNASQUEEZE2kGOLDINNOW -> Tank is way more likely imo.
On January 14 2012 23:57 LaNague wrote:
i personally think this "anti random" crit calculation is just broken, people get way more crits than they should with 4%.
A part of me wouldn't wonder if they fucked up that algorhythm along the way. If I understand their pseudo-random distribution correctly it should be LESS likely to get critted directly in a row, but MORE likely to get critted during longer fights. Since the math behind it isn't common knowledge (and even then tricky to explain) I'm still all in favour of making random truely random and see what happens.
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On January 14 2012 23:57 LaNague wrote:
i personally think this "anti random" crit calculation is just broken, people get way more crits than they should with 4%.
Stuff like 2 crits in a row with just 4% mastery, 3 dodges with tabi or 3 wriggles procs consecutively just happen way too much
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On January 15 2012 00:45 anmolsinghmzn2009 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2012 23:57 LaNague wrote:
i personally think this "anti random" crit calculation is just broken, people get way more crits than they should with 4%.
Stuff like 2 crits in a row with just 4% mastery, 3 dodges with tabi or 3 wriggles procs consecutively just happen way too much
Don't say such things unless you made statistically relevant experiments. Human intuition is horrible when it comes to randomness.
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EPT
