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On January 15 2012 02:48 spinesheath wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2012 02:34 LaNague wrote:
ok, does this reset when u switch targets?
It keeps track of stats for different targets seperately (minions/monsters probably grouped up somehow).Show nested quote +On January 15 2012 02:34 LaNague wrote:
Also, with 4% crit that should mean the first 12 attacks are below 4% crit, right? (4 out of 100, 1 out of 25, half of it)
That sounds highly unlikely. Such an approach would be WAY too naive, and I'm pretty sure that Riot knows better than that. There's math behind it, and it is highly unintuitive. Our brain just fails at intuitively judging randomness.
Are you sure about this? That means, I can hit someone 5 times, then hit a minion and have increased crit chance on my 6th hit if on the person I hit before?
Also, do we have an anti QQ thread somewhere?
Just installed LOLreplay again and my 2nd game was featuring a 6-1 tryndamere top vs Irelia within 15 minutes and 5 lost towers vs 1 lost towers within 20 minutes.
Our Ahri, support nunu and mah OP skarner carried the shit out of that relia v0v.
~1600 elo EU if anyone wants to see how a pissedevo turns into carryevo.
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On January 15 2012 02:22 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2012 02:13 Unentschieden wrote:
No, the initial chance to crit with 4% is still 4%, what is changed is the chance for the NEXT hit to be a crit. Riots pseudorandom RNG doesn´t disort the actual chances, over 100 attacks you still get 4 crits on average - it´s just unlikely to get them in a row. This should be very obvious that it's wrong... Say you have a normal engine 4% crit chance every attack 4% chance to crit on every attack = 4% average crit Now if you have a pseudo random distribution and the first attack is 4% chance and attack after that is higher ( and it resets back to 4%) then your average is going to be more than 4% crit chance. In a pseudo random distribution the first attack has a smaller chance to crit than your actual crit chance.
On January 15 2012 02:55 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
Has Riot ever released more information about their system than saying it's different from the wc3 engine?
No they never did. The only stuff that is confirmed is that the overall chance at high numbers (to make crit have the correct value) and the "first strike" (because due to how the game plays hitting an Player once and then backing off happens more often/reliably than hitting them twice/trice, etc... ) are equal to the number on the items/champsheet.
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ok interesting, i can see how they did it.
But now i dont see the point, this poking crit is exactly the kind of random factor that they would want to reduce.
Well, best solution is just to remove the 4% crit chance so that it isnt even an issue for laning.
also, for every scenario how they did it, i can come up a gameplay situation where it doesnt work as intended, but thats mood to discuss since we dont know how exactly they did it (probably so we cant abuse it intentionally) without most intensive data collection which isnt worth it.
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I don't think there's a problem with the crit runes and taking them has a pretty big opportunity cost, imo. The crit masteries on the other hand have no opportunity cost because an AD champ going 21+ into the offensive tree will have absolutely no reason not to take it.
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On January 15 2012 03:03 r.Evo wrote:
Are you sure about this? That means, I can hit someone 5 times, then hit a minion and have increased crit chance on my 6th hit if on the person I hit before?
They've described it as a very short window before it diminishes back to normal.
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If you reset the chance every time you switch the target, you will have a hard time implementing any sort of reasonable random distribution. Whether you switch targets or not shouldn't influence your crit chance in any way, and you also should not be able to "charge" your crit chance on minions and then "release" it on a champion. Keeping track of stats for different targets is a reasonable and simple solution for these two objectives, and I remember reading somewhere that this is how it's implemented.
After all, what they mainly want to avoid is excessive chaining of crits (or non-crits) on a single target.
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Holy christ there's nothing better than ahri/gragas duo, send gragas top and that combo just wins games by itself. The synergy between the 2 is ridiculous and it completely rapes these duo ap aoe comps that are getting so popular. Too bad there are very few decent gragas in solo queue.
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All I know is that it was real weird when I did it. I didnt crit for my first 15-20 autoattacks, then just ran off a string of 5 crits in like 7 attacks that just straight killed riven. 4 on her, 1 on a creep.
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Sigh, they gotta nerf riven right when I was about to buy her to own up some games.
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On January 15 2012 04:29 SnK-Arcbound wrote:
Sigh, they gotta nerf riven right when I was about to buy her to own up some games.
Isn't this how it always works? =P
I'm not sure how I feel about the nerfs they're making. I certain think it's an interesting step. My issue wasn't mostly with her W damage though. It was more the fact that she has insane mobility, a bit of CC, Garen's ult on a huge cone, a shield on a ridiculous AD ratio...oh yeah, and she has no mana.
I think they may have made a step in the right direction, but it feels sort of like the recent Tryndamere "nerf". I mean, it's technically a nerf, but they didn't really address the main issue(s).
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I think it should help early. It was kind of weird how not only was it best in terms of your cc to level w, but your damage as well. At least now there SHOULD be some kind of trade off.
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I'm not convinced she's even getting nerfed. It seems like they're buffing her damage which is already too high and giving her stronger CC early, making her even harder to gank/escape from.
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Manaless champions with low(ish) cooldowns flawed from the get go in my opinion. First time I ran into a champ like that when I started the game was like...wat ta faaak? Especially since I was naturally really bad at managing my mana on champs I played with.
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Shouldve just made her shield scale with ap imo and possibly the damage on her ult too.
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Bought crit marks for Gangplank... got a delayed pentakill today, the first day I bought them. Hmm. :d
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On January 15 2012 04:54 Cloud wrote:
Shouldve just made her shield scale with ap imo and possibly the damage on her ult too.
The thing with AP scaling shields(aka shields that are not suppose to scale) has generally high base shield. Jarvan/Urgot for example, if Riot change it to AP then they have to up the base amount on that. If they really want to nerf that then just nerf the AD scaling.
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The health regen nerf on Riven is pretty hard to argue with. I went through to see how her base regen compared to other characters. So:
average squishy - 5 + .55/level
average bruiser - 7 + .75/level
3-4 of the most tanky characters - 9 + .8/lvl
tryndamere - 10 + .9/lvl
riven - 12 + 1.0/lvl
So Riven actually had the highest health regen stat in the game, by a decent margin against the vast majority of characters. No wonder she never ever loses health, whether in the lane or in the jungle.
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It's a 6 second cooldown shield and also works as a gap closer it is extremely strong it's just most people max it last so they don't realize how strong it is until late game.
I have no idea why they give new champions like riven and talon so high base regen. They just assume any champ without sustain that goes top needs some love or something. It's kind of silly.
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On January 15 2012 04:34 jcarlsoniv wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2012 04:29 SnK-Arcbound wrote:
Sigh, they gotta nerf riven right when I was about to buy her to own up some games. Isn't this how it always works? =P I'm not sure how I feel about the nerfs they're making. I certain think it's an interesting step. My issue wasn't mostly with her W damage though. It was more the fact that she has insane mobility, a bit of CC, Garen's ult on a huge cone, a shield on a ridiculous AD ratio...oh yeah, and she has no mana. I think they may have made a step in the right direction, but it feels sort of like the recent Tryndamere "nerf". I mean, it's technically a nerf, but they didn't really address the main issue(s).
At the start of pre season 2 I made a post about owning it up with rammus because of his changes, I realized early he was OP, then people started banning him.
Then right around the dodge rune refunds I knew that skarner was OP so I bought him, but now he's permabanned.
Now riven is a ban by smart people and ahri has very few ap mid counters that match her range and 3 damage abilities, which is why she's banned a lot too, and both those are banned in most games.
Just need to own all the OP champions until you run out of bans in ranked.
On January 15 2012 05:07 Treadmill wrote:
The health regen nerf on Riven is pretty hard to argue with. I went through to see how her base regen compared to other characters. So:
average squishy - 5 + .55/level
average bruiser - 7 + .75/level
3-4 of the most tanky characters - 9 + .8/lvl
tryndamere - 10 + .9/lvl
riven - 12 + 1.0/lvl
So Riven actually had the highest health regen stat in the game, by a decent margin against the vast majority of characters. No wonder she never ever loses health, whether in the lane or in the jungle.
Talon had 14 until they nerfed it if I recall. and 12 for mana.
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EPT
