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On December 30 2011 03:28 Alaric wrote:Regarding Viktor: I theorycrafting really good kiting with rylai, but after I tried to rush it it doesn't really seem good. More a 2nd/3rd big item for him. He needs mana regen badly: his numbers are amongst the weakest for AP casters, in mana pool and mp5. This actually makes Augment:Gravity more interesting than it seems, combined with the fact that his W is quite tricky to land for chasing purposes because of its lack of range. The augment makes it a lot better in that sense. Augment  ower gives him even more chasing power, along with some tankyness... but I'm sold to cdr and I'll probably start RoA unless something better is found, if only for the early catalyst. And as theorycrafted, the speed at which he gets oom and his inability to trade with bursty mages (he can poke with E, but that's a poke, not a trade) really make me think his kit fares far better against melee -> send that dude solotop, he still makes me think of Swain or Ryze, with less sustained damage and more mana problems. I like the fact that his ult automatically follows the first target too. I didn't know it until I read that post, and trying to land everything while kiting in teamfights was pretty micro intensive.
I actually agree with alot of this. I dont know about you but i fell like Augment: Gravity is the only one that feels cost efficent as an upgrade because of how much it gives to him in terms of stats. I second your top lane theory especially if you go a more tanky build which feels pretty natural
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United States47024 Posts
On December 30 2011 03:42 Kyhron wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2011 03:17 Shiv. wrote:On December 30 2011 03:08 Kyhron wrote:
the augment is pretty strong once its upgraded. +3 ap pre level normally then 200 health/6hp5 200mana/5mp5 or just 45 ap bonus. his spells are pretty cheap and have pretty short cds so i can see archangels being good but i found a morellos to be plenty enough mana regen in the few games ive played. hes interesting thats for sure a) How are his spells cheap? If you want to be aggressive in lane, he runs out OOM a lot faster than other APs do, at least from what I have been able to observe. b) Morello's for mana regen? What about blue buff? I'd rather get a straight DC after 2 Doran's than Morello's. A) cost wise is spells are cheap mana wise and i dont see why youd want to be aggressive in lane when quite frankly his early game sucks and his mana pool feels rather shallow. B) i never said rush the morello's which i think you seemed to have taken it. Blue is nice and all but you arent gonna have it 24/7 just cuz of buff time vs respawn timer. And id say do dring fiendish over 2 drings just for the early cdr too which will help harass more. Maybe were just looking at 2 different ways to play him currently as of how new he is, but is teamfight and mid to end game feel way more stronger then his laning.
Morello's isn't useless, but as with any AP, having CDR/mp5 that is not being used half the time (since you should have blue up at least half the time) makes the item not cost-effective enough to be worth buying. AP that you get to use all the time is better than CDR/mp5 that is redundant half the time.
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I'm thinking Boots/3Pot -> RoA -> Sorc Boots -> Rylai's -> WotA -> Deathcap, or in some other order, with RoA being first and Rylai/WotA/DC being core. Think this is pretty standard?
Also, what runes are people running? With his tiny mana pool, I'm thinking MPen Reds, Mp5/level Yellows, MR Blues, AP Quints.
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So I have 10k+ IP ATM due to dodge rune refunds. Only champs I don't own ATM are MF and viktor. Who should I buy/is more fun/op or should I get rune pages or just save it for later?
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I hope they fix shaco soon. He is just so broken its incredible they havent changed something about him as soon as the new jungle came...
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On December 30 2011 03:50 Requizen wrote:
I'm thinking Boots/3Pot -> RoA -> Sorc Boots -> Rylai's -> WotA -> Deathcap, or in some other order, with RoA being first and Rylai/WotA/DC being core. Think this is pretty standard?
Also, what runes are people running? With his tiny mana pool, I'm thinking MPen Reds, Mp5/level Yellows, MR Blues, AP Quints.
ive been running MPen red MP/5 yellows AP/level yellows flat AP blues then ap quints. problem is with how low mana and regen he has boots is a pretty bad start since youre gonna have to be overly cautious on when to use your spells. If youre gonna go RoA id say try blue crystal/pots then get cata/boots1 -> RoA -> sorc -> cap/WotA/Rylais/etc
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On December 30 2011 03:52 Ryuu314 wrote:
So I have 10k+ IP ATM due to dodge rune refunds. Only champs I don't own ATM are MF and viktor. Who should I buy/is more fun/op or should I get rune pages or just save it for later?
Get 2k more IP and buy both >.>
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On December 30 2011 03:53 luckybeni2 wrote:
I hope they fix shaco soon. He is just so broken its incredible they havent changed something about him as soon as the new jungle came...
Broken as in OP or bugged? He's not OP just really god at stomping bads. His early ganks are really strong but he needs the early ganks to succeed or hes just completely worthless. If he's a pain to deal with in solo q just ban him. That's what I do.
On December 30 2011 03:55 Shifft wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2011 03:52 Ryuu314 wrote:
So I have 10k+ IP ATM due to dodge rune refunds. Only champs I don't own ATM are MF and viktor. Who should I buy/is more fun/op or should I get rune pages or just save it for later? Get 2k more IP and buy both >.>
I'm lazy 
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On December 30 2011 03:42 Kyhron wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2011 03:17 Shiv. wrote:On December 30 2011 03:08 Kyhron wrote:
the augment is pretty strong once its upgraded. +3 ap pre level normally then 200 health/6hp5 200mana/5mp5 or just 45 ap bonus. his spells are pretty cheap and have pretty short cds so i can see archangels being good but i found a morellos to be plenty enough mana regen in the few games ive played. hes interesting thats for sure a) How are his spells cheap? If you want to be aggressive in lane, he runs out OOM a lot faster than other APs do, at least from what I have been able to observe. b) Morello's for mana regen? What about blue buff? I'd rather get a straight DC after 2 Doran's than Morello's. A) cost wise is spells are cheap mana wise and i dont see why youd want to be aggressive in lane when quite frankly his early game sucks and his mana pool feels rather shallow. B) i never said rush the morello's which i think you seemed to have taken it. Blue is nice and all but you arent gonna have it 24/7 just cuz of buff time vs respawn timer. And id say do dring fiendish over 2 drings just for the early cdr too which will help harass more. Maybe were just looking at 2 different ways to play him currently as of how new he is, but is teamfight and mid to end game feel way more stronger then his laning.
If you don't rush it, though, you'll most likely get it as your second or third big item. I've rarely been 25 minutes into a game and thought ''man, I wish I had 12 MP/5 more right now.''
As for being aggressive: I misworded that. You will have to retaliate if someone engages in a trade with you, and from what I have seen so far, Viktor isn't able to do that a lot, mainly because of his poor base mana pool®en. His costs admittedtly aren't as bad.
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Malphite jungle so strong
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On December 30 2011 03:59 Shiv. wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2011 03:42 Kyhron wrote:On December 30 2011 03:17 Shiv. wrote:On December 30 2011 03:08 Kyhron wrote:
the augment is pretty strong once its upgraded. +3 ap pre level normally then 200 health/6hp5 200mana/5mp5 or just 45 ap bonus. his spells are pretty cheap and have pretty short cds so i can see archangels being good but i found a morellos to be plenty enough mana regen in the few games ive played. hes interesting thats for sure a) How are his spells cheap? If you want to be aggressive in lane, he runs out OOM a lot faster than other APs do, at least from what I have been able to observe. b) Morello's for mana regen? What about blue buff? I'd rather get a straight DC after 2 Doran's than Morello's. A) cost wise is spells are cheap mana wise and i dont see why youd want to be aggressive in lane when quite frankly his early game sucks and his mana pool feels rather shallow. B) i never said rush the morello's which i think you seemed to have taken it. Blue is nice and all but you arent gonna have it 24/7 just cuz of buff time vs respawn timer. And id say do dring fiendish over 2 drings just for the early cdr too which will help harass more. Maybe were just looking at 2 different ways to play him currently as of how new he is, but is teamfight and mid to end game feel way more stronger then his laning. If you don't rush it, though, you'll most likely get it as your second or third big item. I've rarely been 25 minutes into a game and thought ''man, I wish I had 12 MP/5 more right now.'' As for being aggressive: I misworded that. You will have to retaliate if someone engages in a trade with you, and from what I have seen so far, Viktor isn't able to do that a lot, mainly because of his poor base mana pool®en. His costs admittedtly aren't as bad.
AH ok i get what you mean...yeah i get what you mean, but i usually build morellos anyways because i dont run cdr runes so i get it for the cdr to help cap myself. I agree he cant really trade, but with gravity field you can throw it down and cause them to back off so you dont get off free damage or they'll have to go around it giving you time to back off. I just dont think his early game and trading arent that great they feel really weak
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Shaco was stronger in old jungle IMO, back when you could pop 3 off of a half clear then go kill mid.
He has more options now, but in terms of strength I think he is actually down compared to other jungles.
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I think viktor's w upgrade is the best one. When you do that his W has a range of 812. compare to trundle pillar which has range 1000, its really good for letting you land dark binding, nidalee spear, ahri combo... i think that's why its got mp5 on it too, so you can apply pressure for long.
q upgrade seems like its just for if you're falling behind in lane? not really sure why anyone would get it honestly
Also the e upgrade gives a .91 ap ration nuke. that seems like its too good
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On December 30 2011 03:57 Ryuu314 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2011 03:53 luckybeni2 wrote:
I hope they fix shaco soon. He is just so broken its incredible they havent changed something about him as soon as the new jungle came... Broken as in OP or bugged? He's not OP just really god at stomping bads. His early ganks are really strong but he needs the early ganks to succeed or hes just completely worthless. If he's a pain to deal with in solo q just ban him. That's what I do. Show nested quote +On December 30 2011 03:55 Shifft wrote:On December 30 2011 03:52 Ryuu314 wrote:
So I have 10k+ IP ATM due to dodge rune refunds. Only champs I don't own ATM are MF and viktor. Who should I buy/is more fun/op or should I get rune pages or just save it for later? Get 2k more IP and buy both >.> I'm lazy
He is op broken like crazy. He might be strongest early but hes so strong there that all lanes will be at a very big disadvantage. Saying you can always ban them is a bad argument since you should not have to ban a champ because hes so op noone wants to play against him. If you say everyone except the 2000 elo people are bad then you have to really reevaluate your definition (and even there they ban him).
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On December 30 2011 03:28 Alaric wrote:Regarding Viktor: I theorycrafting really good kiting with rylai, but after I tried to rush it it doesn't really seem good. More a 2nd/3rd big item for him. He needs mana regen badly: his numbers are amongst the weakest for AP casters, in mana pool and mp5. This actually makes Augment:Gravity more interesting than it seems, combined with the fact that his W is quite tricky to land for chasing purposes because of its lack of range. The augment makes it a lot better in that sense. Augment ower gives him even more chasing power, along with some tankyness... but I'm sold to cdr and I'll probably start RoA unless something better is found, if only for the early catalyst. And as theorycrafted, the speed at which he gets oom and his inability to trade with bursty mages (he can poke with E, but that's a poke, not a trade) really make me think his kit fares far better against melee -> send that dude solotop, he still makes me think of Swain or Ryze, with less sustained damage and more mana problems. I like the fact that his ult automatically follows the first target too. I didn't know it until I read that post, and trying to land everything while kiting in teamfights was pretty micro intensive.
I would think his range on his E, and the fact taht the power transfer gives more shield based on damage dealt, that It would probably be best to start with Doran stack (2-3) into Rabadons Death Cap. Shouldn't need morellos or any CDR if you're running cdr/blues, and get blue from jungler. And with supposedly really bad manapool, running mp5 yellows should be a good choice. Of course this is all theory crafting...
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On December 30 2011 03:18 Kaniol wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2011 03:11 wei2coolman wrote:On December 30 2011 03:10 Reggiegigas wrote:
Yeah, no balance changes? I disappoint.
Four wins in a row now as Poppy with 0 deaths and 27 kills in total. Poppy rockin' I hate how poppy is useless in lane, and only gets good the second triforce is done. It's funny because AP poppy is ridiculously strong even though you don't buy triforce on her. But i agree - her farm problems are painful T.T Gotta try jungling with her
her jungle is probably shit as well, single target junglers sucks since jungle change.
On December 30 2011 03:50 Requizen wrote:
I'm thinking Boots/3Pot -> RoA -> Sorc Boots -> Rylai's -> WotA -> Deathcap, or in some other order, with RoA being first and Rylai/WotA/DC being core. Think this is pretty standard?
Also, what runes are people running? With his tiny mana pool, I'm thinking MPen Reds, Mp5/level Yellows, MR Blues, AP Quints.
CDR blues might be better? probably depends what lane you play, if mid Mr blue is probably better choice.
I think rushing catalyst might be a bit better? Open Mana crystal + 2 pots. Cause a rushed catalyst would definitely help laning a LOT easier.
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Lol the TOO watching Rainman's Vlog on how to make a trashbag outfit because he is now lowest elo.
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On December 30 2011 04:19 luckybeni2 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2011 03:57 Ryuu314 wrote:On December 30 2011 03:53 luckybeni2 wrote:
I hope they fix shaco soon. He is just so broken its incredible they havent changed something about him as soon as the new jungle came... Broken as in OP or bugged? He's not OP just really god at stomping bads. His early ganks are really strong but he needs the early ganks to succeed or hes just completely worthless. If he's a pain to deal with in solo q just ban him. That's what I do. On December 30 2011 03:55 Shifft wrote:On December 30 2011 03:52 Ryuu314 wrote:
So I have 10k+ IP ATM due to dodge rune refunds. Only champs I don't own ATM are MF and viktor. Who should I buy/is more fun/op or should I get rune pages or just save it for later? Get 2k more IP and buy both >.> I'm lazy He is op broken like crazy. He might be strongest early but hes so strong there that all lanes will be at a very big disadvantage. Saying you can always ban them is a bad argument since you should not have to ban a champ because hes so op noone wants to play against him. If you say everyone except the 2000 elo people are bad then you have to really reevaluate your definition (and even there they ban him).
People ban shaco because people do stupid stuff in solo que like never ward, always overextend and never take into account Shaco is in the game. Not because he's overly strong at least no more then any other early gank champion. Only again as has always been the case Shaco is generally easily killed or forced to run in a teamfight and he kind of is stuck in this push other lanes or try to pick off people after a fight.
He's not bad by any means but he's no brokenly overpowered champion. He falls under the list of bans you ban because your teammates in solo que are stupid.
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On December 30 2011 04:44 BlackMagister wrote:
Lol the TOO watching Rainman's Vlog on how to make a trashbag outfit because he is now lowest elo.
THIS SHIT TOO FUNNY :D:D:D Thumbs up for Oddone for actually wearing that thing
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On December 30 2011 04:48 daemir wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2011 04:44 BlackMagister wrote:
Lol the TOO watching Rainman's Vlog on how to make a trashbag outfit because he is now lowest elo. THIS SHIT TOO FUNNY :D:D:D Thumbs up for Oddone for actually wearing that thing
for sure it boosts someones motivation to rise ELO by over 9000 if you have to wear that thing. so it's a very good thing afterall
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EPT
