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[Patch 1.0.0.131: Viktor] General Discussion - Page 112

Forum Index > LoL General
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Cloud9157
Profile Joined December 2010
United States2968 Posts
January 07 2012 21:11 GMT
#2221
Regi =\

Less rage please. Xspecial is right. Bot told him Ryze was going back.
"Are you absolutely sure that armor only affects the health portion of a protoss army??? That doesn't sound right to me. source?" -Some idiot
emucxg
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Finland4559 Posts
January 07 2012 21:13 GMT
#2222
Regi is just as retard as before rolf
starfries
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada3508 Posts
January 07 2012 21:17 GMT
#2223
On January 08 2012 05:52 clickrush wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 08 2012 05:35 UniversalSnip wrote:
On January 08 2012 00:43 phyvo wrote:
how the crap did WotA get so OP anyways?

all the answers you are getting are completely wrong. Basically the item used to be super bad. At the time revolver gave 15% spellvamp (before that it gave 10%) and was pretty much worthless, like it is now. Both items that built out of it, gunblade and wota, were costed with the assumption that revolver had the correct gold per stat ratio. When they buffed revolver up to 20%, they also buffed wota and gunblade to be in line with that. The new revolver turned out to be completely broken so they nerfed it back, then gunblade turned out to be completely broken so they did about the same with that, now there's rumbling about wota... Do you see a pattern?


I aggree when your saying that alot of considerations tend to be psychological (a general moba thing). In this case its mb also sth different. WotA has a pretty good ap/gold ratio which ppl ignored for a time. The aura effect is mostly considered as bad for soloq even if the item itself is costeffective and you need the stats. Aegis is another prime example.

Generally I would say most ppl don't do the math at all.

For example tiamat has one of the best AD/gold ratios. If you really just need quick and cheap AD and can make use of the regen and farmspeed it provides then you should buy it. Despite that fact you rarely see this item.

Another problem is that ppl often don't consider buying a bunch of small-middle sized items because they 'clump up the inventory' and you 'delay the important stuff' despite their costeffectiveness, completely ignoring the fact that 99% of the games are decided way (WAY) before you have 5 major 3k+items.

The same goes for consumables. Wether those are wards, buffs or pots: Consumables in LoL cost nothing and provide insane stats/utility. You should allways fill your inventory space with some of them. Popping a healing potion during a fight easily turns the tide. Having a great bunch more stats during 4minutes easily turns the tide. The <250g investment turns into dragons/kills/turrets and freefarm so easily.

Haha I say you, if I only had decent decision making and better nerves I would be the best player out there

Most high level players are aware of which items are efficient, they just can't be bothered to try out wacky builds like Tiamat stacking or rushing Stark's. Stark's rush on Irelia is pretty decent although tbh you're better off with Wriggle's + Recurve if you're not going to be using the aura much.

People do use potions, they just sometimes forget in the heat of the moment. And people do buy cheap, cost-effective items. Doran's stacking, Wriggles and Wit's End are all really popular.
DJ – do you like ramen, Savior? Savior – not really. Bisu – I eat it often. Flash – I’m a maniac! | Foxer Fighting!
Ryuu314
Profile Joined October 2009
United States12679 Posts
January 07 2012 21:21 GMT
#2224
On January 08 2012 06:17 starfries wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 08 2012 05:52 clickrush wrote:
On January 08 2012 05:35 UniversalSnip wrote:
On January 08 2012 00:43 phyvo wrote:
how the crap did WotA get so OP anyways?

all the answers you are getting are completely wrong. Basically the item used to be super bad. At the time revolver gave 15% spellvamp (before that it gave 10%) and was pretty much worthless, like it is now. Both items that built out of it, gunblade and wota, were costed with the assumption that revolver had the correct gold per stat ratio. When they buffed revolver up to 20%, they also buffed wota and gunblade to be in line with that. The new revolver turned out to be completely broken so they nerfed it back, then gunblade turned out to be completely broken so they did about the same with that, now there's rumbling about wota... Do you see a pattern?


I aggree when your saying that alot of considerations tend to be psychological (a general moba thing). In this case its mb also sth different. WotA has a pretty good ap/gold ratio which ppl ignored for a time. The aura effect is mostly considered as bad for soloq even if the item itself is costeffective and you need the stats. Aegis is another prime example.

Generally I would say most ppl don't do the math at all.

For example tiamat has one of the best AD/gold ratios. If you really just need quick and cheap AD and can make use of the regen and farmspeed it provides then you should buy it. Despite that fact you rarely see this item.

Another problem is that ppl often don't consider buying a bunch of small-middle sized items because they 'clump up the inventory' and you 'delay the important stuff' despite their costeffectiveness, completely ignoring the fact that 99% of the games are decided way (WAY) before you have 5 major 3k+items.

The same goes for consumables. Wether those are wards, buffs or pots: Consumables in LoL cost nothing and provide insane stats/utility. You should allways fill your inventory space with some of them. Popping a healing potion during a fight easily turns the tide. Having a great bunch more stats during 4minutes easily turns the tide. The <250g investment turns into dragons/kills/turrets and freefarm so easily.

Haha I say you, if I only had decent decision making and better nerves I would be the best player out there

Most high level players are aware of which items are efficient, they just can't be bothered to try out wacky builds like Tiamat stacking or rushing Stark's. Stark's rush on Irelia is pretty decent although tbh you're better off with Wriggle's + Recurve if you're not going to be using the aura much.

People do use potions, they just sometimes forget in the heat of the moment. And people do buy cheap, cost-effective items. Doran's stacking, Wriggles and Wit's End are all really popular.

teams are startin to grab starks more often now tho

TRM's corki makes me sad :\
UniversalSnip
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
9871 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-07 21:23:44
January 07 2012 21:22 GMT
#2225
On January 08 2012 05:52 clickrush wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 08 2012 05:35 UniversalSnip wrote:
On January 08 2012 00:43 phyvo wrote:
how the crap did WotA get so OP anyways?

all the answers you are getting are completely wrong. Basically the item used to be super bad. At the time revolver gave 15% spellvamp (before that it gave 10%) and was pretty much worthless, like it is now. Both items that built out of it, gunblade and wota, were costed with the assumption that revolver had the correct gold per stat ratio. When they buffed revolver up to 20%, they also buffed wota and gunblade to be in line with that. The new revolver turned out to be completely broken so they nerfed it back, then gunblade turned out to be completely broken so they did about the same with that, now there's rumbling about wota... Do you see a pattern?


I aggree when your saying that alot of considerations tend to be psychological (a general moba thing). In this case its mb also sth different. WotA has a pretty good ap/gold ratio which ppl ignored for a time. The aura effect is mostly considered as bad for soloq even if the item itself is costeffective and you need the stats. Aegis is another prime example.

Generally I would say most ppl don't do the math at all.

For example tiamat has one of the best AD/gold ratios. If you really just need quick and cheap AD and can make use of the regen and farmspeed it provides then you should buy it. Despite that fact you rarely see this item.

Another problem is that ppl often don't consider buying a bunch of small-middle sized items because they 'clump up the inventory' and you 'delay the important stuff' despite their costeffectiveness, completely ignoring the fact that 99% of the games are decided way (WAY) before you have 5 major 3k+items.

The same goes for consumables. Wether those are wards, buffs or pots: Consumables in LoL cost nothing and provide insane stats/utility. You should allways fill your inventory space with some of them. Popping a healing potion during a fight easily turns the tide. Having a great bunch more stats during 4minutes easily turns the tide. The <250g investment turns into dragons/kills/turrets and freefarm so easily.

Haha I say you, if I only had decent decision making and better nerves I would be the best player out there



riot definitely has way better sense of champion balance than I think everyone on this forum... but they really don't seem to know what is up with their items at all. Ever since I saw wu thuong's spreadsheet it's been pretty simple picking out the next fotm item. You just go down the list and look at

- Cost efficiency. Not exclusively significant but sometimes you can make the call just based on that number.
- Resource generation. For example lifesteal and gold generation are both dangerous because they're prone to abuse. Mana on the other hand doesn't necessarily generate any real resource advantage. Infinite mana ezreal spamming Q every time it's up isn't that much better than ezreal just using Q when it's useful. On the other hand put a chalice on corki and you get an abusive pusher. So it's just down to whether the combination of stats generates continually greater resource advantage.
- Ties into some other abusive mechanic. For example free spells with kennen + spellvamp. Kennen is fine without wota around and wota would be a lot less obviously stupid without heroes like kennen around, you put them together and the results are unfair.

I think they don't have anyone on their staff who is like... a former professional tcg player or something. They don't seem to see engines clearly, for example when they look at nasus they obsess over his Q and ignore his passive.
"How fucking dare you defile the sanctity of DotA with your fucking casual plebian terminology? May the curse of Gaben and Volvo be upon you. le filthy casual."
Cloud9157
Profile Joined December 2010
United States2968 Posts
January 07 2012 21:22 GMT
#2226
Rainman did pretty well in that fight. Bursted down Ryze and dealt a shit load of damage.
"Are you absolutely sure that armor only affects the health portion of a protoss army??? That doesn't sound right to me. source?" -Some idiot
Parnage
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States7414 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-07 21:34:03
January 07 2012 21:25 GMT
#2227
M5 is so...aggressive. They don't just want baron and dragons. They want the buffs on both sides and will make sure to try and contest them. I am liking it. Sadly it appears TSM is firing on full today and refuse to let it stop them.


The only thing more aggressive then M5 is this end of the game ranting going on by some TSMplayers..
-orb- Fan. Live the Nal_rA dream. || Yordles are cool.
DoXa
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Switzerland1448 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-07 21:27:20
January 07 2012 21:26 GMT
#2228
M5 lost it at baron IMO, and cassio is too strong vs Ryze. also was voli a troll pick?
Cloud9157
Profile Joined December 2010
United States2968 Posts
January 07 2012 21:27 GMT
#2229
On January 08 2012 06:26 DoXa wrote:
M5 lost it at baron IMO, and cassio is too strong vs Ryze


Ryze lost it early on. Too much wandering and died to gank early on.
"Are you absolutely sure that armor only affects the health portion of a protoss army??? That doesn't sound right to me. source?" -Some idiot
Ryuu314
Profile Joined October 2009
United States12679 Posts
January 07 2012 21:27 GMT
#2230
On January 08 2012 06:22 Cloud9157 wrote:
Rainman did pretty well in that fight. Bursted down Ryze and dealt a shit load of damage.

His build was pretty stupid imo. PD+IE Corki is decent, but TRM went PD first for some reason and then rushed a LW -.-;
spinesheath
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Germany8679 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-07 21:31:19
January 07 2012 21:28 GMT
#2231
Pretty awesome Cass+Sona ults together with insane DPS against 2 pure melees. I'd say TSM had good picks and some clutch teamfights.
On January 08 2012 06:27 Ryuu314 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 08 2012 06:22 Cloud9157 wrote:
Rainman did pretty well in that fight. Bursted down Ryze and dealt a shit load of damage.

His build was pretty stupid imo. PD+IE Corki is decent, but TRM went PD first for some reason and then rushed a LW -.-;

I'm not sure, but I guess TRM is maxing E fairly quickly with the intent of owning tanks. Which makes the choice of LW weird anyways. Not sure how the math works out on Corki, but I'd expect Black Cleaver to be the better choice especially if you consider that Corki wasn't the only AD.
If you have a good reason to disagree with the above, please tell me. Thank you.
daemir
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland8662 Posts
January 07 2012 21:29 GMT
#2232
Xspecial needs to go and bitchslap regi to clear his head, oh my god.
DoXa
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Switzerland1448 Posts
January 07 2012 21:30 GMT
#2233
On January 08 2012 06:27 Ryuu314 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 08 2012 06:22 Cloud9157 wrote:
Rainman did pretty well in that fight. Bursted down Ryze and dealt a shit load of damage.

His build was pretty stupid imo. PD+IE Corki is decent, but TRM went PD first for some reason and then rushed a LW -.-;


he always plays corki like that. dunno why
Hibzy
Profile Joined November 2010
United Kingdom445 Posts
January 07 2012 21:31 GMT
#2234
Reginald real pissed right now haha, and oddones face during all this is priceless!
"Uhh, I just have an insanely good sense of fashion." -TLO
tobi9999
Profile Joined April 2009
United States1966 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-07 21:33:48
January 07 2012 21:32 GMT
#2235
TSM going CLG style

Argue/rage thoughout game, win

Stay calm thoughout the game, lose

EDIT: Also, PD first is completely viable if you run AD runes......
"tobi is ur iq 9999? cuz i think it might be u so smart wowowow." -Artosis
Ryuu314
Profile Joined October 2009
United States12679 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-07 21:33:50
January 07 2012 21:33 GMT
#2236
On January 08 2012 06:28 spinesheath wrote:
Pretty awesome Cass+Sona ults together with insane DPS against 2 pure melees. I'd say TSM had good picks and some clutch teamfights.
Show nested quote +
On January 08 2012 06:27 Ryuu314 wrote:
On January 08 2012 06:22 Cloud9157 wrote:
Rainman did pretty well in that fight. Bursted down Ryze and dealt a shit load of damage.

His build was pretty stupid imo. PD+IE Corki is decent, but TRM went PD first for some reason and then rushed a LW -.-;

I'm not sure, but I guess TRM is maxing E fairly quickly with the intent of owning tanks. Which makes the choice of LW weird anyways. Not sure how the math works out on Corki, but I'd expect Black Cleaver to be the better choice especially if you consider that Corki wasn't the only AD.

I mean...none of corki's skills scale with attack speed. So the PD first item rush is just...kinda dumb. Rushing a LW could be good i suppose since the bears were pretty armor heavy, but iunno. I'm pretty darn sure he was doing a lot less damage/utility than if he went Triforce first or IE first or even BC first.

Regi all butthurt at getting insulted. D:
Ryuu314
Profile Joined October 2009
United States12679 Posts
January 07 2012 21:35 GMT
#2237
On January 08 2012 06:32 tobi9999 wrote:
TSM going CLG style

Argue/rage thoughout game, win

Stay calm thoughout the game, lose

EDIT: Also, PD first is completely viable if you run AD runes......

...+10 damage from AD runes let's you spend 2.6k on an item that gives no damage? Please explain...Corki doesn't scale off of attack speed early/mid game and crit chance is pretty shitty with just one PD and no real AD.
Cloud9157
Profile Joined December 2010
United States2968 Posts
January 07 2012 21:35 GMT
#2238
You shouldn't call teammates stupid during a game. Doesn't really help.

I think Regi realizes it was stupid, but he just doesn't want to be told it. I think Xspecial needed to wait for after game to comment on the plays.
"Are you absolutely sure that armor only affects the health portion of a protoss army??? That doesn't sound right to me. source?" -Some idiot
daemir
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland8662 Posts
January 07 2012 21:37 GMT
#2239
Well regi was complaining to his team mid game right after that death to ryze, so he don't have much basis for this shitty rant atm.
tobi9999
Profile Joined April 2009
United States1966 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-07 21:41:19
January 07 2012 21:37 GMT
#2240
On January 08 2012 06:33 Ryuu314 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 08 2012 06:28 spinesheath wrote:
Pretty awesome Cass+Sona ults together with insane DPS against 2 pure melees. I'd say TSM had good picks and some clutch teamfights.
On January 08 2012 06:27 Ryuu314 wrote:
On January 08 2012 06:22 Cloud9157 wrote:
Rainman did pretty well in that fight. Bursted down Ryze and dealt a shit load of damage.

His build was pretty stupid imo. PD+IE Corki is decent, but TRM went PD first for some reason and then rushed a LW -.-;

I'm not sure, but I guess TRM is maxing E fairly quickly with the intent of owning tanks. Which makes the choice of LW weird anyways. Not sure how the math works out on Corki, but I'd expect Black Cleaver to be the better choice especially if you consider that Corki wasn't the only AD.

I mean...none of corki's skills scale with attack speed. So the PD first item rush is just...kinda dumb. Rushing a LW could be good i suppose since the bears were pretty armor heavy, but iunno. I'm pretty darn sure he was doing a lot less damage/utility than if he went Triforce first or IE first or even BC first.

Regi all butthurt at getting insulted. D:


what the fk lol

Black Cleaver is like the worst item in the game, probably even worse than Nashor's Tooth.

While I might not agree with it, I think Rain Man's logic is PD + LW gives more damage than PD + IE on voli/udyr/ryze while also being cheaper, and PD first is better than LW first.

if that make sense

EDIT: @Ryuu314: Okay, PD + Pickaxe is a bit less gold than Infinity
Go into custom game with someone, go corki with pickaxe and PD vs Corki with just infinity.
TL;DR of everything I say about Rain Man's build PD gives your damage than you think
"tobi is ur iq 9999? cuz i think it might be u so smart wowowow." -Artosis
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