[Patch 1.0.0.131: Ahri] General Discussion - Page 18

On December 14 2011 04:02 Seuss wrote:


The runes were listed on page 11, and prices on page 12. But for your convenience:

Quintessences
2% Life Steal (2050 IP per)
2% Spell Vamp (2050 IP per)
1.5% Health (2050 IP per)
2.0 APen + 1.13 MPen (2050 IP per)

Marks
1 APen + 0.57 MPen (820 IP per)

Seals
0.5% Health (820 IP per)
0.25 gp10 (410 IP per)

Hybrid Pen is as expected. Roughly 60% the ArPen of equivalent ArPen runes, and 60% the MPen of equivalent MPen runes, so if you're really using both stats quite a bit, you have an approximate 20% gain in efficiency. Not sure if this is really worth it on any characters to be honest.

HP % runes are weird. Comparing the seals, you're looking at % HP Seals out performing HP/level Seals when you have more than 216 HP/level. This is obviously true at level 1. But by level 18, you'd need 3888 for the %HP to outperform HP/level. If you're comparing them to flat HP seals, they don't catch up until you have 1070 HP. So basically they fall somewhere in between the early game of flat HP seals and the late game of scaling HP seals. Essentially I can't envision a scenario where these are actually a good idea. On Quints, the comparison is even worse compared to flat HP Quints, where the % HP Quints don't catch up until 1733 HP. Scaling HP Quints have a worse comparison, where the % HP Quints break even at 180 HP/level, but that's still a 3240 HP break even point at level 18. Summary: Flat HP is better if you want early game HP, Scaling HP is typically better in late game scenarios, leaving % HP runes mostly useless until you hit a midgame warmog's, where it will be slightly higher. This would beg the question of why the **** are you speccing HP on your runes if you're rushing warmog's though, just get resistances and you're better off in that scenario.

Gold/10 Seals aren't as efficient as Gold/10 Quints. They're 1/4 the value, while the oppurtunity cost of stats with their primary in seals (regen, armor, hp) compared to quints is roughly 1/3. If you're investing heavily in Gold/10 anyway, I guess they're probably still worth it, but they'll take 31 minutes of work to catch up to the value of flat armor seals, so if you need armor anyway, they're very tough to justify.

Lifesteal Quints are technically worth a bit less than Flat AD/AS Quints, but they're still worth a lot. For reference, Flat AD = 92.25, Flat AS = 95.2, Lifesteal = 75. Considering that lifesteal is kinda a pain in the *** to spec for though, I think it's pretty hard to argue with 12% lifesteal off of a dblade start, especially if you're laning with a support without a heal. Definitely worth consideration because of the build paths they open up.

Spell vamp on the other hand is a lot harder to quantify. I'd say they're probably not worth it unless you're doing something cheesy where you go into lane with 9% spell vamp off of runes and masteries, but hell, that sounds gay as balls on Kennen, so yea...

On December 14 2011 04:32 BlackPaladin wrote:


Yorick does that to.......everything. D:

On December 14 2011 04:02 Seuss wrote:


The runes were listed on page 11, and prices on page 12. But for your convenience:

Quintessences
2% Life Steal (2050 IP per)
2% Spell Vamp (2050 IP per)
1.5% Health (2050 IP per)
2.0 APen + 1.13 MPen (2050 IP per)

Marks
1 APen + 0.57 MPen (820 IP per)

Seals
0.5% Health (820 IP per)
0.25 gp10 (410 IP per)

Hybrid Pen is as expected. Roughly 60% the ArPen of equivalent ArPen runes, and 60% the MPen of equivalent MPen runes, so if you're really using both stats quite a bit, you have an approximate 20% gain in efficiency. Not sure if this is really worth it on any characters to be honest.

HP % runes are weird. Comparing the seals, you're looking at % HP Seals out performing HP/level Seals when you have more than 216 HP/level. This is obviously true at level 1. But by level 18, you'd need 3888 for the %HP to outperform HP/level. If you're comparing them to flat HP seals, they don't catch up until you have 1070 HP. So basically they fall somewhere in between the early game of flat HP seals and the late game of scaling HP seals. Essentially I can't envision a scenario where these are actually a good idea. On Quints, the comparison is even worse compared to flat HP Quints, where the % HP Quints don't catch up until 1733 HP. Scaling HP Quints have a worse comparison, where the % HP Quints break even at 180 HP/level, but that's still a 3240 HP break even point at level 18. Summary: Flat HP is better if you want early game HP, Scaling HP is typically better in late game scenarios, leaving % HP runes mostly useless until you hit a midgame warmog's, where it will be slightly higher. This would beg the question of why the **** are you speccing HP on your runes if you're rushing warmog's though, just get resistances and you're better off in that scenario.

Gold/10 Seals aren't as efficient as Gold/10 Quints. They're 1/4 the value, while the oppurtunity cost of stats with their primary in seals (regen, armor, hp) compared to quints is roughly 1/3. If you're investing heavily in Gold/10 anyway, I guess they're probably still worth it, but they'll take 31 minutes of work to catch up to the value of flat armor seals, so if you need armor anyway, they're very tough to justify.

Lifesteal Quints are technically worth a bit less than Flat AD/AS Quints, but they're still worth a lot. For reference, Flat AD = 92.25, Flat AS = 95.2, Lifesteal = 75. Considering that lifesteal is kinda a pain in the *** to spec for though, I think it's pretty hard to argue with 12% lifesteal off of a dblade start, especially if you're laning with a support without a heal. Definitely worth consideration because of the build paths they open up.

Spell vamp on the other hand is a lot harder to quantify. I'd say they're probably not worth it unless you're doing something cheesy where you go into lane with 9% spell vamp off of runes and masteries, but hell, that sounds gay as balls on Kennen, so yea...

On December 14 2011 04:46 Haemonculus wrote:
Perhaps run lifesteal quints on any ranged bot AD champ that plans on laning with janna? Open d-blade, get bonus AD from shield anyway, have 12% leech from the get-go, and just heal yourself up that way?