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Want to rage about your latest loss? Use the QQ thread. If you whine in GD, you'll get warned. ===== + Show Spoiler +If your [Stream] thread was moved to the general TL Stream subforum (aka SC stream land), find your thread and PM it to me and I'll move it back to LoL territory. I can argue with staff that moving a non-SC thread into a SC subforum is just asking for that thread to get buried.
- Neo, Dec. 15 2011, 6:33 KST I have admin approval. I'll be moving LoL streams back to the subforum. Stream name will be based on Summoner name. - Neo 7:07 KST |
Doesn't Mao need a lot of farm to be effective heading into mid/late game? Usually when I see him toplane, he becomes this incredibly difficult to take down tank who can literally take a 5v1 for a good 20 seconds before being killed. If he's not getting farm and spends most of his money on wards/oracles, he is going to have to sit back in fights using ult to provide damage reduction, but won't he get blown up if he trys to root a carry?
Nunu only really needs a banshee's veil and he's pretty effective with his ult, as you're going to need to blow 2 hard cc's to stop his channel. Not to mention the ult still does a ton of damage with little ap. I can see nunu using his bloodboil to effectively roam, ward, and clear wards fast with out getting killed when he gets caught like most supports. If teams are trending away from taking cv on supports in favor of heal, I can see nunu becoming an effective support.
I'm interested in seeing who in a mao/vayne vs nunu/mf mu would win. Both supports can't provide extra sustain to the carry like a traditional support, yet they both seem to be more of an offensive support in nature. IMO (aside from the bloodboil) Alistar/Taric problebly do the same job as both of them in lane while providing some sustain to the carry.
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If you really like a champion then go for it. Since you already have standard runepages then you can pretty much buy whatever you want at this point. Owning tons of champions isn't that important as long as you're confident in 2-3 champions for each role.
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No offense, but if you are hovering at about 1250 Elo there are a lot more pressing concerns to address than the lack of available champions. 
Getting mana runes for Ryze seems like to big of an investment right now, unless you really like playing him, I guess? I think you should really pick up a set of attackspped reds, a couple decent junglers like Udyr/Lee Sin and possibly Soraka/Sona for bot lane(both cost 450IP iirc).
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On December 20 2011 00:15 Sabin010 wrote:
Doesn't Mao need a lot of farm to be effective heading into mid/late game? Usually when I see him toplane, he becomes this incredibly difficult to take down tank who can literally take a 5v1 for a good 20 seconds before being killed. If he's not getting farm and spends most of his money on wards/oracles, he is going to have to sit back in fights using ult to provide damage reduction, but won't he get blown up if he trys to root a carry?
You can't play support Maokai the same way you play solo lane Maokai. Support Soraka doesn't try to Starcall the enemy carry in the middle of a teamfight, does she?
Support Maokai puts down his ult so that it protects his carries and uses his CC to keep the enemy anti-carries under control. He stays in the back row.
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The best advice to newer players is to get comfortable with champions of the week. There are always at least 2-3 that you can discover every week, and there's enough variety to cover every role.
Ryze is playable without mana runes. You can run mpen reds / armor yellows / MR blues / movespeed quints and be fine. The reds/yellows/blues are great runes to buy if you haven't already; movespeed is not as common, but they're currently on sale.
For AD's, you can do fine playing only Trist/Ashe and whoever is free for the week. Caitlyn is the easiest AD to learn, but if you really like Vayne then by all means get her. I know you said you haven't bought IP, but right now it's 75% off on Vayne! (And I think today is the last day for the sale.) I know everyone thinks different, but IMO it's well worth spending $5-10 to enjoy the game infinitely more. Most "top tier" ADs are 6300, so it'll take forever to get them all with only IP.
Jungle is trickier. Warwick is easy to learn, cheap, and fairly solid, though by no means top tier anymore. It's also fairly easy to carry with WW because at 1250 elo every single gank with ult should be a kill, and he's very tanky after mid-game. Most top tier junglers are either 6300 (Lee, Noc, Skarner, Maokai), perma banned (Rammus, Shaco), or use specialized runes (Udyr). Other options you have include Amumu, Xin, GP.
Also, buy Soraka. She's one of the best supports and only 450ip.
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On December 20 2011 00:23 dismiss wrote:No offense, but if you are hovering at about 1250 Elo there are a lot more pressing concerns to address than the lack of available champions. Getting mana runes for Ryze seems like to big of an investment right now, unless you really like playing him, I guess? I think you should really pick up a set of attackspped reds, a couple decent junglers like Udyr/Lee Sin and possibly Soraka/Sona for bot lane(both cost 450IP iirc).
Soraka is cheap but Sona is a little pricy if I remember. 3150 it looks like, not terrible. Before jungle change I like WW because he was a cheap buy and easy to jungle.
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On December 20 2011 00:13 Brockster wrote:
I do have Ashe and Trist but i really like vayne and graves better from my free weeks, just dont feel comfortable with trist and ashe seems to lack utility apart from initiation
I have 4 Pages with full sets of red arpen, magicpen, flat ad; blue flat ap, MRes and scaling cdr; yellow armor and dodge and ad/ap quints.
I d grab Morg, but she is 100% banned in my elo range.
I want to wish you a warm welcome to the discussion. If you're going to play a lot of Ryze, finishing his runepage should be the #1 priority. The thing about the ad carrys is they're all good, but some are absolutely perfect for certain team compositions. If your team is Kat, Sona, Amumu, GP, you're going to want graves/ezreal over vayne almost every time, while if the team was Singed, Anivia, Udyr, Soraka you're going to want ashe/vayne over graves just about every time.
The problem with AD carries is the ones that are really best for specific team comps are all 6300. If I were you I would just pick up the Ryze runes, and then get some more junglers.
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Udyr doesn't need specialized runes, he's very effective with ArPen/AsPd reds, armour yellow, MR blues, and MS quints. And Yi is a good cheap jungler.
Rammus/Shaco aren't perma banned by any mean at lower Elos I think. And GP is one of the best junglers if you don't give blue to the mid :p
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Thanks for the advice given till now. I do have Soraka/Alistar as go-to supports. I agree that I ll have to get movespeed quints and asp reds sooner or later. The question is the sooner or later here.
It comes back to the choice between more variety aka champions or specialty aka more runepages dedicated to 2-3 champs to excel at any lane thrown at me.
For clarification, I dont mind staying at 1200-1300 for now, because i know i cannot counter specific lanes at all through runepages or simply being outpicked because i cannot counter xerath with ryze or stuff like that. And i do what Sandster said, trying out new champs i didnt have the chance to play yet, so its a given I m not able to carry as hard as i could with champs i feel comfortable with. So i m happy farming ip and gathering experience in the game.
The advice i was looking for is the champs vs runes decision i have to make.
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Get a feel for the champs you'd like in specifics roles. For example in the jungle, what aspects cater to you more?
Regarding Ryze I don't think finishing his runepage is that important, especially since he's so unique—the only runeset on my smurf is arpen red/quints, armor yellows, mr/level blues, and the gap with my main account (mpen reds, mp5/level yellows, AP/level blues, AP quints) is only noticeable when I get manastarved early.
If you want some AP mid that plays somewhat akin to Morgana, you could try Lux—and I mean try, she remains different. She's based around skillshots, has longish cooldowns and good AoE, along with mitigation in the form of a shield, tho she's squishy as opposed to Morg and the shields have only that in common—they're shields. But if it's long range poke and skillshots you like, she may be your style as much as Morg. And nobody bans her (they just pick clarity everytime, sillies).
Edit: to be more specific about your question: champs, clearly. Get your 2-3 cookie-cutter pages (hell, arpen/mpen reds, armor yellows, mr blues and ms quints and you'd be fine on anybody, for only 15k IP), unless you play stuff like Akali or want to trollface mids with full MR page Galio, runes are really more about comfort than performance.
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Don't invest in mana runes early.
That's my advice here. Ryze is perfectly fine without them. I don't even know if tournament Ryze players use mana runes...
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If you can learn to lane ashe against the batshit botlane combos that exist now you will be in a great spot for solo q. Arrow is still the #1 way to win a game.
The only problem is ashe gets dumped on by the majority of ad carries.
And spines- loci runs scaling mana yellows and flat blues.
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Yeah, that was my thought process there. I do fine with Ryze as he is, and it would prolly be more useful for me to get the Mspeed Quints rather than mana runes, because many junglers benefit from these too. And Mspeed benefits Ryze really well.
For junglers i was thinking about 2 of those 3: Lee Sin/Udyr/Skarner.
The longer i think about it, best would be i ll just buy me the 50€ RP to get the 7 rune page bundle and some champs i like and use my IP of the dodge refund plus what i saved till now on Msped Quints and Attspd reds. If only i wouldnt be such a cheap bastard : -).
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Personally I think you would be better off specializing, and maximizing the effectiveness through the runes before trying to buy more champions. Once you figure out one champ and have a full rune page for them, you start learning another one. That said I have two generic AP pages the only difference being mana per 5 per level yellows, and ap per level yellows. These two pages work for pretty much every caster who's name isn't Ryze. With the jungle changes I haven't been jungling as much, but theres a generic page that will work with a good variety of junglers that go 21 in the red tree, you would need a seperate page for a 21 defense or utility jungler. The aim being to get just enough armour penetration on the jungle minions, some where between 24-26, I would have to look it up as I have given up jungling, but then you can stack attack speed or flat ad for fast as possible clears.
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On December 20 2011 01:05 Two_DoWn wrote:
If you can learn to lane ashe against the batshit botlane combos that exist now you will be in a great spot for solo q. Arrow is still the #1 way to win a game.
The only problem is ashe gets dumped on by the majority of ad carries.
And spines- loci runs scaling mana yellows and flat blues.
Ashe also has a hard time at various elo ranges where your team will be like "FOCUS EZREAL" (with ghost+flash lol) while the enemy Annie walks past 3 of your allies unharmed, asking each of them "Have you seen my bear Tibbers?" just before she finds him - on top of your head.
Laning is hardly an issue compared to this crap.
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I would focus on getting the essential runes, in order of importance flat armor > armor/magic pen > MR > quints.
Reds: armor pen, magic pen
Yellow: flat armor (most important runes in the game), possibly mp5/lvl (if you want to play mid a lot - but not required)
Blue: flat MR, AP/lvl (only if you mid a lot; otherwise MR is ok and you can buy these later)
Quints: Flat AD, flat AP, possibly movespeed
Once you have those runes, you can play every champion in the game (except Akali). Maybe not 100% optimal but it'll work. In the meantime play free champions as you learn more about the game and individual champions. Note that AP's work ok using armor yellow, MR blues, and random quints (like movespeed or AP) until you have specialized ones - and this is true for Ryze as well. People at 1250elo lack proper runes anyway so you won't be at a disadvantage.
Only after that would I work on buying champs. You can also decide to pick up more runes - for example, you may want jungle runepages and run the 6-8 AS reds + arpen quints. Obviously it helps to have a few champs that you really like and can fall back to in every role, but it seems you already have that.
Lux has similar abilities to Morgana but don't really play similarly. Xerath is fun though, and again on 75% sale until the end of today, so for $5 you can pick up Xerath and Vayne for two very strong and fun champs that would otherwise take an entire month's worth of IP.
EDIT: And yeah, the easiest thing to do is spend 1/2 of what a full game would cost and buy RP for champions that you really like, especially while on sale. It takes 2-3 weeks to get 6300 ip for a new champion even if you play every day.
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On December 20 2011 00:56 Brockster wrote:
Thanks for the advice given till now. I do have Soraka/Alistar as go-to supports. I agree that I ll have to get movespeed quints and asp reds sooner or later. The question is the sooner or later here.
It comes back to the choice between more variety aka champions or specialty aka more runepages dedicated to 2-3 champs to excel at any lane thrown at me.
For clarification, I dont mind staying at 1200-1300 for now, because i know i cannot counter specific lanes at all through runepages or simply being outpicked because i cannot counter xerath with ryze or stuff like that. And i do what Sandster said, trying out new champs i didnt have the chance to play yet, so its a given I m not able to carry as hard as i could with champs i feel comfortable with. So i m happy farming ip and gathering experience in the game.
The advice i was looking for is the champs vs runes decision i have to make.
I would advice to invest a little money into the game and to be smart about it. There is no fixed ratio between IP and RP which means that you need to carefully decide what to buy with what.
Here are some things that I concluded from looking at RP and IP prices:
- Rune pages are really expensive in terms of IP when compared to RP. If you need more pages because you want to play more champion on a routine basis, it is worth to invest some RP.
- Champs do not have fixed IP to RP ratios. The general rule that I found is that the more IP a champion cost the more worth it is to buy him with RP. Make sure to calculate the ratio of IP/RP ratio before buying.
- There are bundles that can only be bought with RP. You will not get your IP refunded as far as I know for the champions that you already own. So look at them and try to determine as early as possible if you are interested in buying. You might waste IP by buying champions that are inside a bundle already.
- There are far more sales for the RP prices then for the IP prices. In case you are patient, just check on the sales and make a list of champions that you want to get.
In any case buying runes in my opinion is always "better" because you can't buy runes with RP. So if you really want to have a champion, you can always spend the money or try to catch a sale. For runes you need play time. In case you want to spend no money whatsoever this of course does not apply.
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only thing buying with rp imo are the champ bundles + skins + 7 rune page bundle or w/e it was... buying champs with RP individually is just overkill
MF is the best AD btw, she runs fast and has big boobies and shoots stuff. MF #1.
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On December 20 2011 01:30 randomKo_Orean wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2011 01:28 unichan wrote:
only thing buying with rp imo are the champ bundles + skins + 7 rune page bundle or w/e it was... buying champs with RP individually is just overkill
MF is the best AD btw, she runs fast and has big boobies and shoots stuff. MF #1. MF#1 obv
Officer Caitlyn in a police uniform far superior to the pirate lady imo.
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EPT
