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Want to rage about your latest loss? Use the QQ thread. If you whine in GD, you'll get warned. |
On December 05 2011 16:11 STS17 wrote:
What are the thoughts on smite stealing enemy blue wraith instead of starting wolves now that the exp/gold of the camp is weighted so much more heavily onto the "large" mobs of the camps?
You could get a slightly stronger leash at blue to make up for the lack of smite there as well.
If you get a good pull on blue you can smite the wraith after you do your blue, not really worth it to smite it before your blue though, doing wolves is far better.
What you can do however is start @ their golems, do their wraiths and kill them when they want to do their wraiths.
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United States47024 Posts
On December 05 2011 18:18 JackDino wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 16:11 STS17 wrote:
What are the thoughts on smite stealing enemy blue wraith instead of starting wolves now that the exp/gold of the camp is weighted so much more heavily onto the "large" mobs of the camps?
You could get a slightly stronger leash at blue to make up for the lack of smite there as well. If you get a good pull on blue you can smite the wraith after you do your blue, not really worth it to smite it before your blue though, doing wolves is far better. What you can do however is start @ their golems, do their wraiths and kill them when they want to do their wraiths.
Barring certain junglers that are especially weak 1v1s, it's not really reliable to bet on being able to win that fight when they have a buff advantage and their mid AP is probably closer to the fight than yours.
This is why when TheOddOne did Wolves->Blue->fight enemy at his wraiths as Lee Sin, he still got his blue. instead of doing something like taking the minis--even though Lee Sin doesn't need blue to jungle, buff parity matters in low-level 1v1s, especially since there's enough time for people's abilities to potentially come off CD.
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Ya it depends on what your jungling ofcourse but if you play a strong counterjungler it's something you can do.
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United States47024 Posts
On December 05 2011 18:26 JackDino wrote:
Ya it depends on what your jungling ofcourse but if you play a strong counterjungler it's something you can do.
Who do you qualify as a "strong counterjungler" that can beat Udyr or Skarner in a 1v1 when they have buff advantage and their mid joins the fight before yours?
Not to mention that they'll probably be higher HP than you because you had to do minis/wraiths solo while they got wolves/blue leashed. Or that their bot lane can very likely do their minis, and catch you if you go alone.
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On December 05 2011 17:40 TheKefka wrote:
I have been feeling the need to poke my head out of the jungle since they messed with it.
How is Swain these days?I noticed people play him top lane sometimes but don't see him a lot anymore.
Isn't he just better solo top than mid? Most mid have good range so he can't really trade with them, and even melees like Fizz can just E and laugh at him — does E cut off the tether btw? Even if it doesn't, he'll probably have enough range to get out anyway.
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On December 05 2011 18:28 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 18:26 JackDino wrote:
Ya it depends on what your jungling ofcourse but if you play a strong counterjungler it's something you can do. Who do you qualify as a "strong counterjungler" that can beat Udyr or Skarner in a 1v1 when they have buff advantage and their mid joins the fight before yours? Not to mention that they'll probably be higher HP than you because you had to do minis/wraiths solo while they got wolves/blue leashed. Or that their bot lane can very likely do their minis, and catch you if you go alone.
Despite actually not being a strong counterjungler xin beats both in a 1v1 early, lee sin, shaco but he can start at blue, you can do wolves blue with most champs and fight them @ wraiths/red actually.
If you're planning to do it you just tell your mid to pay attention and their mid will be there half a second faster at most.
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So I just had a thought. Wasn't the remade jungle supposed to be accessible to low level summoners? How can the new jungle be considered accessible when there are so many random new mechanics making it more unintuitive and even level 30 summoners with optimized runes/masteries have trouble keeping up with the small camp respawn timers?
I really can't imagine any sub-20 jungler being remotely successful, even if they had Udyr or Skarner. Sure, they can technically "jungle" but they're going to be way behind even the duo lanes even without ganking.
Seriously, use a blank rune page and try jungling with only 1-10 mastery points. It's terrible.
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Because Riot failed tremendously. The barrier for low level jungling has ALWAYS been the inability of newbs to cope with a 1v2 situation and it always will be.
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On December 05 2011 18:52 Craton wrote:
Because Riot failed tremendously. The barrier for low level jungling has ALWAYS been the inability of newbs to cope with a 1v2 situation and it always will be.
the barrier for entry to low level jungling was the fact that it was impossible without runes
an added negative factor was the fact that even if you got runes, your top lane would still probably lose a 1v2, but bad teammates is not a barrier to entry to the jungle
the more you know
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United States47024 Posts
On December 05 2011 18:59 gtrsrs wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 18:52 Craton wrote:
Because Riot failed tremendously. The barrier for low level jungling has ALWAYS been the inability of newbs to cope with a 1v2 situation and it always will be. the barrier for entry to low level jungling was the fact that it was impossible without runes an added negative factor was the fact that even if you got runes, your top lane would still probably lose a 1v2, but bad teammates is not a barrier to entry to the jungle the more you know
This was the case until the mastery revamp.
After that, jungling without runes was absolutely not an issue, even on some weird junglers.
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Negative. You could jungle, especially on sustain champs like WW, without full runes. It was often less efficient, but it was still very, very much doable. The problem was (and still is) that jungling isn't worth it when nobody knows how to deal with 1v2 or properly support a gank. I should point out that I jungled in a large number of my low level games.
Also note that barrier for entry and barrier for jungling are not the same thing.
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On December 05 2011 19:06 Craton wrote:
Negative. You could jungle, especially on sustain champs like WW, without full runes. It was often less efficient, but it was still very, very much doable. The problem was (and still is) that jungling isn't worth it when nobody knows how to deal with 1v2 or properly support a gank.
I got some accounts to level 5 for referrals on old masteries/jungle and jungling being garbage in the early levels had nothing to do with 1 vs 2. I mean it might be true that it wouldn't be worth it because the laners would fuck it up, but that's an obstacle you would not reach because it was just awful to jungle without runes or masteries. Not worth it. You were so so so much better off laning until you could buy some items and then going into the jungle.
The stuff you had to do to jungle at all efficiently with the old setup was absurd, you needed good yellows, solid reds, solid quints, and quite a few mastery points, and it ate up 50% of your rune slots because you only have two pages to start with for some god-forsaken reason.
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People at that level suck at last hitting, anyway, especially when dealing with someone else who also sucks at last hitting. Even going slow in the jungle still resulted in more gold/exp. 1v2 feeders were very common in my games, though.
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Means you take all your lane partner's cs, which they weren't going to get anyway, then go buy some items and clear the jungle.
Just wasn't as good to do it starting at level 1, I did it anyway but I just hate duo laning that much. If I wanted to win I def would have started lane.
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You need to stop thinking like someone who knows how to play the game. BOTH people at that level are bad and miss a ton of CS. It's not a matter of one person being a seasoned vet that can last hit like a pro while the other is a bright-eyed, clueless newbie.
Low level jungling really is more about roughly 15-29 than it is 1-5. There's simply no reason for people that new to the game to even be jungling, as they have no idea what the point of being there is. Note that level 5 can be as little as 3 or 4 games played and that level 10 isn't much more.
As an aside, people ought to get 10 mastery points at level 1 and 30 by level 20.
Another aside: why is Riot's client team so damn incapable of adding options for things that are already possible by editing their text files? You can't bind regular spell casts to shift+qwer, but you can do edit the file and do it just fine. Apparently they also added the ability to have smartcast on key release (with range indicators while pressed), but once again it's only possible through editing the text file. http://i.imgur.com/oAeKi.png
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Binding regular spell casts to shift qwer has been possible in the client since like forever.
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On December 05 2011 19:26 JackDino wrote:
Binding regular spell casts to shift qwer has been possible in the client since like forever.
Incorrect. Just confirmed it, as well.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/3cowu.jpg)
Note the error message.
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Anyone know if any of the IEM qualifier matches were archived?
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Odd, used to be able to do it without any errors.
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I dunno when the first time I tried was (many months ago), but it has never worked for me through the client.
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EPT
