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Want to rage about your latest loss? Use the QQ thread. If you whine in GD, you'll get warned. |
On November 20 2011 05:17 gtrsrs wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 04:27 Two_DoWn wrote:
Fizz can do pretty well in most level 1 trades. The only problem is your W scales INCREDIBLY poorly compared to most other leveling harass skills. You can boss vlad around for a few levels, but as soon as he hits 5, your done. Rumble? level 3. %-based damage scaling INCREDIBLY poorly two_down you need to take a break from posting br0
It scales off missing damage. Unfortunately, most of the time people come to lane with pots. So you get an extra 12 damage if someone is mising 100 health at level 3, assuming you hit w. Real strong scaling :S. Id rather just get an extra 70 damage like every other champion does when they level a harass skill.
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You could pick up Morg, but she's going to be banned in 99% of games, so you're better off learning a mage that you can actually use.
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On November 20 2011 05:22 Craton wrote:
You could pick up Morg, but she's going to be banned in 99% of games, so you're better off learning a mage that you can actually use.
I'd recommend him to pick her up for when she's not banned though, she's at least as stupid as Sion. With sustain and a real ult.
PS : got to love GP at 1k5 Elo :D
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/8NkK5.jpg)
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On November 20 2011 05:55 mr_tolkien wrote:PS : got to love GP at 1k5 Elo :D
Did that Xerath DC or what? 135 cs :/ reminds me of how well ppl farm at my elo 
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Shyvana is my new favorite low elo char.
-Clears so fast that i can save two lanes that are losing
-Getting counter jungled does next to nothing to her clear
-Counter jungles like a boss; if there's a buff up on their side and their jungler shows his face anywhere, that buff is mine.
-Ganks are slightly weak due to lack of CC but it doesn't really matter since she can tower dive with her ult ez pz. And in lower elo the lanes usually lose because the other player is being overly aggressive and over extending constantly; so red buff = kill + saved lane every time.
-After 6 i can be in their jungle all I want and be safe while recharging my ult in my own jungle if I have to use it to escape.
Current record in ranked is 9-1 and every game I can say I either saved top/mid or just pooped on their jungle so hard my own aggressive lanes didn't have to worry about a red buffed jungle or a blue buffed enemy AP carry.
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On November 20 2011 06:33 WirelessWaffle wrote:
Shyvana is my new favorite low elo char.
-Clears so fast that i can save two lanes that are losing
-Getting counter jungled does next to nothing to her clear
-Counter jungles like a boss; if there's a buff up on their side and their jungler shows his face anywhere, that buff is mine.
-Ganks are slightly weak due to lack of CC but it doesn't really matter since she can tower dive with her ult ez pz. And in lower elo the lanes usually lose because the other player is being overly aggressive and over extending constantly; so red buff = kill + saved lane every time.
-After 6 i can be in their jungle all I want and be safe while recharging my ult in my own jungle if I have to use it to escape.
Current record in ranked is 9-1 and every game I can say I either saved top/mid or just pooped on their jungle so hard my own aggressive lanes didn't have to worry about a red buffed jungle or a blue buffed enemy AP carry.
Problem with Shyvana right now is all those things that she does Udyr and Skarner do better.
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On November 20 2011 06:32 Dgiese wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 05:55 mr_tolkien wrote:PS : got to love GP at 1k5 Elo :D Did that Xerath DC or what? 135 cs :/ reminds me of how well ppl farm at my elo
Probably his whole team farmed midlame from 20 minutes on. Happens to me all the time.
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Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
Interestingly, someone who was 1536 Elo decided to disprove Elo Hell by dodging to -18 Elo and then grinding back up again to Gold Elo. He also recorded all 174 games it took to get back to Gold Elo. 153-21 record.
Linky
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On November 20 2011 07:00 MoonBear wrote:Interestingly, someone who was 1536 Elo decided to disprove Elo Hell by dodging to -18 Elo and then grinding back up again to Gold Elo. He also recorded all 174 games it took to get back to Gold Elo. 153-21 record. Linky
Ranked ratings are misunderstood. 1400 is INSANELY good from a statistical standpoint. It's the top 10% of ranked players . Even 1250 is top 25%. Those ratings are GOOD. If you were to compare League of Legends to Starcraft 2, 1400 and higher are diamond players while 1250 and higher are platinum players. This isn't even counting players below level 30 and the ones that have never played ranked. Keep in mind that Elo distribution is on a bell curve. If you claim to be a 1700 player then what you're actually claiming is that you're one of the top 2500 players in North America.
That is what I am trying to say/do. But if you pick a non support for bot @ 1100-1200 (my rating) you'll get flamed all game long. (though I have 2-1 with bot shen currently).
Be positive. Don’t yell at your teammates and put them down. It doesn’t provide anything positive. Maybe you’ll feel better but that teammate you just flamed at is now more discouraged and/or pissed off. Not only is their play impacted because they’ve been discouraged but do you really think that they want to contribute to helping you get a win after you were being a **** to them?
Tried to teach that to my team yesterday. Hell it was a freaking normal game and they flamed me all game long. Sooo annoying. Yeah, I played bad. And it just got worse. (though I played kog maw)
Anyway this guy is now my hero. <3
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On November 20 2011 05:20 Two_DoWn wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 05:17 gtrsrs wrote:On November 20 2011 04:27 Two_DoWn wrote:
Fizz can do pretty well in most level 1 trades. The only problem is your W scales INCREDIBLY poorly compared to most other leveling harass skills. You can boss vlad around for a few levels, but as soon as he hits 5, your done. Rumble? level 3. %-based damage scaling INCREDIBLY poorly two_down you need to take a break from posting br0 It scales off missing damage. Unfortunately, most of the time people come to lane with pots. So you get an extra 12 damage if someone is mising 100 health at level 3, assuming you hit w. Real strong scaling :S. Id rather just get an extra 70 damage like every other champion does when they level a harass skill.
your Q applies your W and W and Q both have flat damages applied to them as well
not even sure if you've played fizz tbh
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On November 20 2011 07:27 gtrsrs wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 05:20 Two_DoWn wrote:On November 20 2011 05:17 gtrsrs wrote:On November 20 2011 04:27 Two_DoWn wrote:
Fizz can do pretty well in most level 1 trades. The only problem is your W scales INCREDIBLY poorly compared to most other leveling harass skills. You can boss vlad around for a few levels, but as soon as he hits 5, your done. Rumble? level 3. %-based damage scaling INCREDIBLY poorly two_down you need to take a break from posting br0 It scales off missing damage. Unfortunately, most of the time people come to lane with pots. So you get an extra 12 damage if someone is mising 100 health at level 3, assuming you hit w. Real strong scaling :S. Id rather just get an extra 70 damage like every other champion does when they level a harass skill. your Q applies your W and W and Q both have flat damages applied to them as well not even sure if you've played fizz tbh
And what the hell does that have to do with the fact that the flat damage and scaling isnt good enough to match people like rumble, post 5 vlad, shen, ect? Its just my belief that he really cant handle a top lane matchup because the frequency and potency of the harass that exists up there goes beyond what he is capable of dishing out and handling.
Now, do I think that q-w combo is good enough for mid? You bet your ass I do. But champs that go mid generally dont stack mr, have infinite sustain, or super heavy pre 6 harass. But try to play fizz vs smash's irelia, or neo's rumble. You WILL lose. He doesnt have good enough scaling in terms of either sustain, damage reduction, or damage in order to survive top lane post level 2.
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The problem with ELO in League of Legends, as opposed to SC2's rating system, is that the inherent advantage of individual skill is relatively small (compounded if you play supports/ non-primary DPS roles) until very large gaps of skill. Sure, a CLG member can carry most 1200 ELO games, but a 1400 bottom lane player isn't going to work miracles every game. Even though her team is more likely to win, the variance caused by her team-mates is going to inevitably "trap" some players.
Now, as more games are played, the variance of win-loss decreases, and players trend towards their equilibrium skill level. But this can take a rather large amount of games. Let's assume that a 1400 ELO player has a 55% Win-Loss ratio at 1200 ELO. This implies that after 100 games, the player is most likely going to have a +10 win/loss ratio, which is approximately the 200 ELO difference between the two levels. We can determine the probability of each win-loss configuration (i.e 55 wins 45 losses, 54 wins 46 losses, etc.) with binomial distribution. At 100 games, she has about a 54% chance of having 55 wins or more, accurately reflecting her skill level. But she also has an 18% chance of having 50 wins or less, trapping her at that ELO level (or potentially falling down in ELO). In a game with millions of players, 18% is a significant amount of "trapped" players.
Now, this would be fine if games were usually quick. But 100 games is quite a bit of playtime; assuming each game averages 35 minutes, that's about 58 hours of play time. If you play a few games a day on average, that's possibly a month of playtime to adjust to your skill level. This long is compounded with dynamic skill change, such as improvement; unless the improvement is profound, it can take quite a while for the ELO system to accurately reflect the increase in skill.
So while ELO Hell is way exaggerated, it does exist to an extent. ELO Hell doesn't imply that the ELO system is "broken", in the sense that it fails to allocate players to their actual skill level. But it does imply a potential inefficiency, leaving some players "trapped" at an ELO for a significantly long time.
My 2-cents on the whole ELO Hell thing.
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If a player is "trapped" at an ELO for a significantly long time guess what: THAT IS THEIR ELO.
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y dont just admit that ur not the best fizz player in the world lol
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On November 20 2011 07:43 Two_DoWn wrote:
If a player is "trapped" at an ELO for a significantly long time guess what: THAT IS THEIR ELO.
Most likely, that is the case. But some unlucky folk will get trapped at a lower ELO range than they should. It is a rather terrible excuse though. You have everything to gain from analyzing your play and attempting to improve, rather than blaming losses on your team members.
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Where do I ever claim I'm the best fizz in the game? I simply laid out my experiences playing top lane, with reasons for why I felt that way. I know I'm not the best player. But I DO know that given what I have seen, Fizz does not seem to have the ability to survive in top lane.
Guitar has yet to actually give an example of a single time he has PLAYED fizz, let along actually vsed one of these champions he is so determined Fizz can beat. Everything he has tried to make a claim about has just come from knowledge someone could get by reading the wiki about Fizz' skills. The points I am trying to make are that the numbers and skills do not make him strong enough to handle the most difficult lane in the game in terms of matchups.
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On November 20 2011 07:47 ManyCookies wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 07:43 Two_DoWn wrote:
If a player is "trapped" at an ELO for a significantly long time guess what: THAT IS THEIR ELO. Most likely, that is the case. But some unlucky folk will get trapped at a lower ELO range than they should. It is a rather terrible excuse though. You have everything to gain from analyzing your play and attempting to improve, rather than blaming losses on your team members.
But what is lower than they should? If someone is better than the elo they are at, they should win at least 51% of their games. That means that their elo will rise until they hit their true elo, at which point they stay at that elo level. The simple truth is this- no one, and I mean no one, ever has 50%+ of their games lost by feeders, afks and trolls. Actually, its probably more like 60% because you can still win 4v5s, win despite trolls, ect. Otherwise, if you are just BETTER than the elo you are at, you will win more games than you lose. If you are not, you wont.
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Losses and wins aren't always the same amount. It's completely possible (and has happened already) to have a negative win-loss and still be 1900+.
There's no such thing as being trapped at a rating -- that's the entire myth of Elo (WHICH IS NOT AN ACRONYM).
You will always float around the Elo that represents your actual ability, whether above or below, regardless of your teammates. This has been proven so many times by people like rjsdnd, jiji, that guy mentioned above, and so forth. For every game you get with morons or d/cs, so to do other players. Elo exists to give you opponents at a similar level of skill to your own and to your team, which is does once. This happens a lot sooner than the 100 games you talk about -- even 50 games is stretching how many you need to be near your appropriate rating.
Your example is even more telling of the myth of Elo hell, as you're arguing against the system saying that someone who can only play one champion of one role should be a "higher elo" than they really are.
What you're really trying to argue with this is that supports are less impactful in a game than carries. Food for thought: my support Janna has the highest win percent of any of my champions with >5 games played (81%), which includes many of the games I played at my peak S1 Elo. Everyone likes to rag on the support role for being the easiest, but any good team (and especially heavy AD players) will tell you the support makes a tremendous difference in a game.
I also greatly question the accuracy of your statistics.
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On November 20 2011 07:52 Two_DoWn wrote:
Where do I ever claim I'm the best fizz in the game? I simply laid out my experiences playing top lane, with reasons for why I felt that way. I know I'm not the best player. But I DO know that given what I have seen, Fizz does not seem to have the ability to survive in top lane.
Guitar has yet to actually give an example of a single time he has PLAYED fizz, let along actually vsed one of these champions he is so determined Fizz can beat. Everything he has tried to make a claim about has just come from knowledge someone could get by reading the wiki about Fizz' skills. The points I am trying to make are that the numbers and skills do not make him strong enough to handle the most difficult lane in the game in terms of matchups.
Well, I was in that game where you were top against Shen and it seemed like you'd never even played against an AP Shen top before. Your posts make it seem like you know all of the ins and outs of these matchups, when you've played Fizz for two days. Are you losing lanes because Fizz CAN'T win those lanes, or because a) you don't know the matchups, b) aren't familiar with Fizz, c) aren't a strong laner in the first place, or d) have just been matched up against stronger players in lane so far every game? It's not like anyone is a master Fizz player already, so maybe instead of just giving up on Fizz top after 5 games, you could keep trying and really figure it out.
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EPT
