On November 28 2011 04:25 redtooth wrote: shyvana's great in both jungle and top. i feel that some matchups she straight up loses in top but at other times she can zone the fuck out of everyone and is unkillable. her jungling speed is ridiculous and pre-6 she's basically a good warwick. both totally viable and competitive.
also, #1 pentakiller IMO
I agree.
The secondary reason (aside from clearspeed abuse) why I like her in jungle more than lane is because it's more consistent for farm. I've had a jungle Shyv vs top-lane Shyv game once and I guess due to matchup, after I ganked her once and dropped her hp she fell behind and I actually ended up significantly ahead of farm despite her having a solo lane. That's pretty brutal for an item-dependent hero given her low base scaling.
On November 27 2011 20:48 cascades wrote: I dont know Utahime. As I discussed with you, Shyvana might have insane clear speed, but not the slow of Skarner/Udyr. I sure hope new jungle doesn't mean only this three superfast junglers are viable.
She has a nastier gank when she has red-buff thanks to double-flash (can catch up to even Riven with Flash) and her sick DPS at early levels. The problem obviously is that she's buff reliant for kills, but honestly if she had any sort of CC she'd be beyond retarded, lol. It's a bit like the Brand vs Annie balance issue; in exchange for the loss of a point and click CC Brand's damage output is insane (relatively speaking, although the Annie buff obviously swung that around so I'm not sure how the numbers match up %-wise). Shyv's mid-game damage is one of the best due to 170 DPS without even autoattacking at level 9.
The problem is that this 170 PBAoE DPS doesn't actually scale (or rather it has a paltry combined 0.4 bonus AD ratio which means it's terrible) so she just falls off late-game. That's why I've been pining for ratio buffs, hah.
But if you've ever played a slower jungler versus a good one, and I mean stuff like the XZ/Trundle/etc of the world who primarily thrive on single-target strikes (hence no matter what they're just slower at clearing) you can definitely feel the counterjungling start to catch up, and it's really hard to stop her from gaining levels on you. It's not so bad when you're even something like Master Yi; the AoE creep clear lets you keep up in levels and reduces the likelihood of being counterjungled, as the speed of clear can match hers and thus keeps her in the dark with regards to your creep respawns.
I honestly think she might become top 5 junglers if the jungle patch goes the way people are saying it will. If ganks become so bad that by doing so you'll end up behind an afk farm jungler then I don't know how a jungler would be able to match Shyvana except maybe like Pheonix Udyr or something. Not to mention her mid game is ridiculous.
I think her laning is good too but with the jungle changes I don't see her going anywhere but the jungle.
edit: Personally, and I'm probably biased cause I love playing as Shyvana, I don't think that Udyr/Skarner have the team fight presence that Shyvana does in mid game. I'm too lazy right now to do numbers but I'm pretty sure she out damages both of them in the mid game and she's a lot harder to ignore in a fight due to her size. She's like a 6-stack Cho'Gath that does more AoE damage and dives into the middle of your entire team.
See, I'm not so sure of that. She's good at farming, but you have to remember also how hard she gets outscaled late-game. She wants to put her speed advantage toward counterjungling because in a passive farm-fest, she does less with the farm than most likely opponents--even though she gets more of it. If counterjungling isn't worthwhile next patch, she might end up better top lane.
On November 28 2011 02:33 rigwarl wrote: Why would that be different (in terms of coding/implementation) than Sivir's spellshield blocking both Kass's silence/snare?
Also, a level 13 Kass with Q/E maxed vs a Morg with 1 point in Black Shield is possible.
Sivir's spellshield blocks "Next Spell, and ALL its effects" rather like banshee's veil. Morgana's blocks "X magic damage, and CC effects (but NOT other, non-cc effects) while the shield holds." They function completely differently.
And yes, if Kass Q/E land at the same time (you q and as the spell impacts you E which is instant) then it's likely that even if the damage from one spell was enough to pop the shield, both CC effects get ignored.
That pretty much is what I'm saying though, Sivir's spellshield, according to the tooltip, is designed to block only 1 spell, yet it can block multiple effects if they happen simultaneously. I don't see why Morgana's shield would be different in that aspect.
So in case anyone was interested in the breakdown of what the IEM Kiev qualifiers look like at the moment, here is a breakdown.
Apparently it breaks down into a 1-8 ranking from quals 1 and 2, with the teams from the 1st qual getting the upper seed. So for example, TSM is the overall 1 seed (winning qual 1), and the winner of qual 2 will take the #2 seed. V8 is #3, CLG is #5, and Goose is #7.
Now here is where shit gets interesting. The bracket will presumably look like this-
TSM (1) #4 qual 2 (8)
#2 qual 2 (4) CLG (5)
V8 (3) #3 qual 2 (6)
#1 qual 2 (2) Goose (7)
Notice anything interesting? Ya, you dont want the 2 or 4 seed.
So here is how it currently breaks down. EG and COL play, with the loser becoming the 4 seed. Both teams gonna have to tryhard to avoid the upper bracket. The winner then plays curse, with the loser becoming the 3 seed. Both teams are gonna try to throw the game to dodge TSM and CLG. The "winner" of that game then has to tryhard vs Dig in order to get the #1 seed and avoid the upper bracket of doom.
EG-COL is at 8 est according to westrice's stream.
When you have banshee's up and use sivir's spellshield you technically have 2 spellshields, but if say, kassadin q's you, it will block the q but both spellshields will now be gone.
I find that 200 ping can really mess-up champs like Trundle or Lee Sin who rely on timing their attacks to get their full dps. I remember dying on blue as LS because of my shared connection, cancelled too much AA while wanting to use his passive to full.
Haha, I play on ~150 ping always, with frequent lag-spikes up to ~1600 ping, where it will stay there for about 7 seconds before coming back down, it goes up pretty smoothly too, so the whole process lasts about ~20 seconds, of my ping going up and coming back down.
Makes my life fun. :p
It's still very playable at 150 ms for me, though, and I can manage to hit/dodge most skillshots, within a reasonable amount for my skill.
For reference, I live in Canada and play on NA, my ping's just because of my crappy Internet
On November 27 2011 20:48 cascades wrote: I dont know Utahime. As I discussed with you, Shyvana might have insane clear speed, but not the slow of Skarner/Udyr. I sure hope new jungle doesn't mean only this three superfast junglers are viable.
On a related note, why are all AP mid besides Annie skillshots? =/ Skillshots to hard with 250 ping.
Sion, Vlad, Zilean, Ryze(literally all of his abilities are target based, so he's less skillshot than annie), Soraka(hey don't laugh). And if you consider Annie non skill shot because her W and R are cone and aoe target, then heimer, veigar, swain and Kassadin aren't really champs with a skillshot, either.
I agree about Kass/swain but heimers nade is a major skillshot even if its not his #1 ability, and veigar's stun is MAJOR skillshot. Really fast and accurate stun placement is what makes good veigar players, and its a very trick skill. His entire toolset is based on hitting that stun well.
I'm not saying it isn't hard but his stun is an instant aoe targettable spell, just like Annie's, even it's more difficult. I was just using sob3k's standards. Though if he really wants a nonskillshot guy then seriously, Ryze and Zilean -- both incredibly strong ap mids without even the slightest need to aim anything.
EPT
