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On November 27 2011 10:00 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2011 09:58 turdburgler wrote:
so like junglers will never be below 90% hp? how will counter jungling work then?
It won't, which is what people have been saying since Stonewall made that video about the changes.
sorry for being a bit slow. but when they said in the video they didnt think changes would lower the skill cap of jungling, just raise the skill floor, they were just being stupid then?
couldnt they just nerf blue (because tbh it seems sooo op for a caster to take if you dont need it) and then introduce a few more jungle buffs? if there were attack speed buffs or whatever, that would help other junglers who need different stats. increasing the choice of junglers even more?
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Yeah... I don't subscribe to this whole "they're dumbing down the game" mindset that people are in about the jungle changes. We'll have to wait and see how counterjungling plays out, but currently counterjungling isn't really about killing the other jungler. It's about slowing them down and putting them behind on XP and gold. With the XP readjustments of the small camps (a Red said that Big Wolf, Blue Wraith, and one of the Golems give a buff and significantly more XP than the others at their camps) I think counterjungling will be even more effective than before. Instead of going into their jungle and stealing their full camp, you go in and steal just the Big Wolf and leave only 25% of the XP of that particular camp for their jungler.
Also, Stonewall made a comment in his video that analogized "No Child Left Behind" to the jungle changes and jungle champs. I completely disagree with him on that and the analogy doesn't even make sense. Here is a comment I posted on that video regarding this:
I don't see how this "casualization" of the jungle could ever be considered a bad thing. There will be a lot more variety in the jungle, and that is objectively good. The "No Child Left Behind" analogy is terrible, because in that system the "smarter kids" (better jungle champs) are being hurt, and that isn't the case here. Trundle isn't going to be worse, everyone else is just going to be better than they were. It's equalization without homogenization and that's a good thing. Always.
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On November 27 2011 10:01 JackDino wrote:
Counterjungling wouldn't be worth it with faster respawn timers anyways unless you can clear your jungler take enemy jungler and be back in your jungle when it spawns.
You just leave a mob so it doesn't respawn. I don't understand why people think it's a requirement to clear the entire camp.
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Going into the enemy jungle just to kill the blue wolf/big wraith/1 golem will put you too far behind actually.
On November 27 2011 10:24 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2011 10:01 JackDino wrote:
Counterjungling wouldn't be worth it with faster respawn timers anyways unless you can clear your jungler take enemy jungler and be back in your jungle when it spawns. You just leave a mob so it doesn't respawn. I don't understand why people think it's a requirement to clear the entire camp.
You lose too much time for gaining almost nothing, you're better off just farming your own jungle the other jungler won't be hurt that much just because a wolf is gone, especially with the jungle being made weaker they may not even need the lvls to get full clears(ie right now some junglers can't do red @ lvl2 when starting blue and you take their wraiths for example).
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On November 27 2011 10:18 ryanAnger wrote:
Yeah... I don't subscribe to this whole "they're dumbing down the game" mindset that people are in about the jungle changes. We'll have to wait and see how counterjungling plays out, but currently counterjungling isn't really about killing the other jungler. It's about slowing them down and putting them behind on XP and gold. With the XP readjustments of the small camps (a Red said that Big Wolf, Blue Wraith, and one of the Golems give a buff and significantly more XP than the others at their camps) I think counterjungling will be even more effective than before. Instead of going into their jungle and stealing their full camp, you go in and steal just the Big Wolf and leave only 25% of the XP of that particular camp for their jungler.
I don't think this necessarily means that counterjungling will be better - since your own camps are respawning so fast now it's questionable whether you will even have the time to travel across the map to counterjungle. You will probably lose more exp from the travel time than the enemy jungler will lose from you killing their big creep.
I've been thinking about the jungle changes and the ease of the jungle could be a pro for some farm-reliant junglers - the jungler could hold top lane and farm while the top laner clears small camps to regenerate HP or on their way to gank. There could be much more fluidity in the jungle role, becoming more of a roamer than a dedicated jungler.
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On November 27 2011 10:24 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2011 10:01 JackDino wrote:
Counterjungling wouldn't be worth it with faster respawn timers anyways unless you can clear your jungler take enemy jungler and be back in your jungle when it spawns. You just leave a mob so it doesn't respawn. I don't understand why people think it's a requirement to clear the entire camp.
Counterjungling is barely worth it in the current jungle- the time and gold you lose in transit does a lot of equalization. Lowering the exp and gold is just going to make the time loss an even bigger trade off.
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On November 27 2011 10:24 JackDino wrote:Going into the enemy jungle just to kill the blue wolf/big wraith/1 golem will put you too far behind actually. Show nested quote +On November 27 2011 10:24 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On November 27 2011 10:01 JackDino wrote:
Counterjungling wouldn't be worth it with faster respawn timers anyways unless you can clear your jungler take enemy jungler and be back in your jungle when it spawns. You just leave a mob so it doesn't respawn. I don't understand why people think it's a requirement to clear the entire camp. You lose too much time for gaining almost nothing, you're better off just farming your own jungle the other jungler won't be hurt that much just because a wolf is gone, especially with the jungle being made weaker they may not even need the lvls to get full clears(ie right now some junglers can't do red @ lvl2 when starting blue and you take their wraiths for example).
Except, except, except, they made the whole point that there putting much more of the small camps into the 'hero' minion (blue wraith, big wolf) so you go in and take that and both get and deny the majority of experience and gold from the camp. Go back and look at Guinsoo's post on the LoL forums, they HAVE though about this.
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On November 27 2011 10:31 Treadmill wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2011 10:24 JackDino wrote:Going into the enemy jungle just to kill the blue wolf/big wraith/1 golem will put you too far behind actually. On November 27 2011 10:24 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On November 27 2011 10:01 JackDino wrote:
Counterjungling wouldn't be worth it with faster respawn timers anyways unless you can clear your jungler take enemy jungler and be back in your jungle when it spawns. You just leave a mob so it doesn't respawn. I don't understand why people think it's a requirement to clear the entire camp. You lose too much time for gaining almost nothing, you're better off just farming your own jungle the other jungler won't be hurt that much just because a wolf is gone, especially with the jungle being made weaker they may not even need the lvls to get full clears(ie right now some junglers can't do red @ lvl2 when starting blue and you take their wraiths for example). Except, except, except, they made the whole point that there putting much more of the small camps into the 'hero' minion (blue wraith, big wolf) so you go in and take that and both get and deny the majority of experience and gold from the camp. Go back and look at Guinsoo's post on the LoL forums, they HAVE though about this.
Was pretty much talking about how it is right now since you can't really say anything about next patch.
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On November 27 2011 10:33 JackDino wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2011 10:31 Treadmill wrote:On November 27 2011 10:24 JackDino wrote:Going into the enemy jungle just to kill the blue wolf/big wraith/1 golem will put you too far behind actually. On November 27 2011 10:24 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On November 27 2011 10:01 JackDino wrote:
Counterjungling wouldn't be worth it with faster respawn timers anyways unless you can clear your jungler take enemy jungler and be back in your jungle when it spawns. You just leave a mob so it doesn't respawn. I don't understand why people think it's a requirement to clear the entire camp. You lose too much time for gaining almost nothing, you're better off just farming your own jungle the other jungler won't be hurt that much just because a wolf is gone, especially with the jungle being made weaker they may not even need the lvls to get full clears(ie right now some junglers can't do red @ lvl2 when starting blue and you take their wraiths for example). Except, except, except, they made the whole point that there putting much more of the small camps into the 'hero' minion (blue wraith, big wolf) so you go in and take that and both get and deny the majority of experience and gold from the camp. Go back and look at Guinsoo's post on the LoL forums, they HAVE though about this. Was pretty much talking about how it is right now since you can't really say anything about next patch.
I guess. Even in this patch, though, stealing the blue wraith/2 small ones doesn't take very long. Going all the way just to take the big wolf probably isn't worth it though, that is true. You did say "Counterjungling wouldn't be worth it with faster respawn timers" which is referring to the new patch though so if you say you aren't talking post-patch then I'm just confused.
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Obviously it's all speculation at this point, but saying counter jungling would be useless because it's going to respawn fast is not the issue. You can leave a minion to make it not respawn if that is the issue. If the opportunity cost isn't worth counter jungling that's a whole different problem, but I'd like to see mids stealing wraiths and bottoms/tops trying to steal mini golems or having skirmishes for them if nothing else. The small boosts they give could make a huge difference in top level play and become a whole new objective to have control over.
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Listening to Saint try to tell Jiji how to play the game, he's so condescending, jesus. Talks to jiji like he's a child or something.
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On November 27 2011 11:12 LoCicero wrote:
Listening to Saint try to tell Jiji how to play the game, he's so condescending, jesus. Talks to jiji like he's a child or something.
All of CLG tends to do that to Jiji, I dunno why. What's even more strange is that Jiji puts up with that shit.
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Watching Westrice play Akali is amazing. Learning so much about positioning ect. And them Leona ults! My god this game is crazy. Westrice definitely being a boss though. I love watching EG play definitely my favorite team.
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Seeing whole teams die in a burst of AoE is pretty funny. Why is Westrice playing for eg anyways?
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On November 27 2011 11:22 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
Seeing whole teams die in a burst of AoE is pretty funny. Why is Westrice playing for eg anyways?
Westrice has been on EG since Dreamhack.
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I must have some people seriously confused. I'll just stick to Dignitas ^_^
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On November 27 2011 11:24 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
I must have some people seriously confused. I'll just stick to Dignitas ^_^
Are you perhaps confused because sometimes they're called "EG" while other times they're called "Epik" ?
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Don't try to find logic in the illogical.
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If I were to theoretically make a team, what players (that aren't on a team) do you think would make a strong team?
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On November 27 2011 11:13 Theoren wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2011 11:12 LoCicero wrote:
Listening to Saint try to tell Jiji how to play the game, he's so condescending, jesus. Talks to jiji like he's a child or something. All of CLG tends to do that to Jiji, I dunno why. What's even more strange is that Jiji puts up with that shit.
They talk to him like that BECAUSE he puts up with it.
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EPT
