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[Patch 1.0.0.129: Fizz] General Discussion - Page 128

Forum Index > LoL General
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Want to rage about your latest loss?
Use the QQ thread.
If you whine in GD, you'll get warned.
SnK-Arcbound
Profile Joined March 2005
United States4423 Posts
November 26 2011 12:35 GMT
#2541
Wow, now that was a fucking impressive game as twitch by doublelift.
freelander
Profile Blog Joined December 2004
Hungary4707 Posts
November 26 2011 13:30 GMT
#2542
what summoners did he use on twitch?
And all is illuminated.
Hynda
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Sweden2226 Posts
November 26 2011 13:53 GMT
#2543
I love that the community would rather discuss the fact that Theoddone might or might not have slept with some random streamer girl than the radical changes to the jungler, It warms my heart.
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
November 26 2011 14:03 GMT
#2544
I guess you're talking about official forums?

Also, I just bought Janna. Was fun when I tried her but I tended to fail since she's not quite the other supports. Any good stream to watch? I tried some support players' streams but it was things like Nyph playing Karth so... ^^'
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
Craton
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States17303 Posts
November 26 2011 14:10 GMT
#2545
On November 26 2011 15:38 Treadmill wrote:
Guinsoo's post, for me, makes a lot of sense. It also shows that hey, the people at Riot actually have some idea what their doing and thinks pretty carefully about changes to their game.

If anything, it shows the opposite. They think there's a problem because somehow someone got it repeated enough that they've accepted it as fact, but when you compare what they say is going to happen vs what will actually happen there's a complete disconnect. Again, remember the Kayle "buff?" Lets not even mention all the horribly overpowered champions they've released as if they hadn't spent an hour testing. Fact of the matter is that Riot has a very poor track record when it comes to dealing with game balance internally. Most of their staff is very low rated and the game balance suffers greatly because of it. Invariably, either out of incompetence or negligence, things have to go live before they will accept just how imbalanced or broken something is. Even when it comes out balanced, they knee-jerk over-buff or over-nerf it most of the time.

Why should jungle 0.2 be any different, especially when even the testers are saying how bad it is?
twitch.tv/cratonz
Hynda
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Sweden2226 Posts
November 26 2011 14:26 GMT
#2546
On November 26 2011 23:03 Alaric wrote:
I guess you're talking about official forums?

Also, I just bought Janna. Was fun when I tried her but I tended to fail since she's not quite the other supports. Any good stream to watch? I tried some support players' streams but it was things like Nyph playing Karth so... ^^'
and reddit
Hynda
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Sweden2226 Posts
November 26 2011 14:27 GMT
#2547
On November 26 2011 23:10 Craton wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 26 2011 15:38 Treadmill wrote:
Guinsoo's post, for me, makes a lot of sense. It also shows that hey, the people at Riot actually have some idea what their doing and thinks pretty carefully about changes to their game.

If anything, it shows the opposite. They think there's a problem because somehow someone got it repeated enough that they've accepted it as fact, but when you compare what they say is going to happen vs what will actually happen there's a complete disconnect. Again, remember the Kayle "buff?" Lets not even mention all the horribly overpowered champions they've released as if they hadn't spent an hour testing. Fact of the matter is that Riot has a very poor track record when it comes to dealing with game balance internally. Most of their staff is very low rated and the game balance suffers greatly because of it. Invariably, either out of incompetence or negligence, things have to go live before they will accept just how imbalanced or broken something is. Even when it comes out balanced, they knee-jerk over-buff or over-nerf it most of the time.

Why should jungle 0.2 be any different, especially when even the testers are saying how bad it is?

I heard xerath needed buffs LOL
Unentschieden
Profile Joined August 2007
Germany1471 Posts
November 26 2011 15:05 GMT
#2548
I don´t think the limited selection of valid junglers right now and rune reliance to jungle is doubted by anyone. These are things that should be adressed. This patch is going to do that and declaring it failed before it goes live is a bit early isn´t it?
Craton
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States17303 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-26 15:19:04
November 26 2011 15:17 GMT
#2549
Limited my ass.

Common junglers: Amumu, Fiddle, GP, Jarvan, Lee Sin, Malphite, Master Yi, Maokai, Nocturne, Nunu, Olaf, Rammus, Riven, Shaco, Shyvana, Skarner, Trundle, Tryndamere, Udyr, Warwick, Xin Zhao
Uncommon, but used even in tournaments: Alistar, Blitz, Cho

Plus several others who can jungle well since mastery changes like Panth, Rumble, Twitch, Nasus, etc..

Even just counting the common junglers, that's 21. 24% of all champions are common jungler picks.

Considering there are 5 roles and that's counting only common junglers, there are tons of junglers right now. If you want to address weaknesses of particular ones then you buff the champ, not rape the jungle.
twitch.tv/cratonz
Unentschieden
Profile Joined August 2007
Germany1471 Posts
November 26 2011 15:45 GMT
#2550
1/4th is actually pretty poor. It means you need to select a champion specifically for jungling. There is also the issue that laning and jungling requires vastly different builds/stats. Thats why when people tried taking traditional junglers and their into lane it´s murderous sustain - warwick, udyr, wriggles are the most prominent examples. Pots as well, plenty junglebuilds NEED cloth+5pot.
Lanzoma
Profile Joined February 2011
Mexico813 Posts
November 26 2011 15:52 GMT
#2551
Can you pick 1/4th of the cast as AD carry? As support? As AP mid?

Surely we must rework those roles too.
BlackPaladin
Profile Joined May 2010
United States9316 Posts
November 26 2011 15:54 GMT
#2552
Yeah man, not being able to play kassadin as a ranged AD carry is a design flaw to me.
"Your full potential does not matter if you do not use all 100% of it."
sob3k
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States7572 Posts
November 26 2011 16:03 GMT
#2553
On November 27 2011 00:54 BlackPaladin wrote:
Yeah man, not being able to play kassadin as a ranged AD carry is a design flaw to me.


Manamune brutalizer BT Kass all day long

stack that R
In Hungry Hungry Hippos there are no such constraints—one can constantly attempt to collect marbles with one’s hippo, limited only by one’s hippo-levering capabilities.
Craton
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States17303 Posts
November 26 2011 16:06 GMT
#2554
On November 27 2011 00:45 Unentschieden wrote:
1/4th is actually pretty poor. It means you need to select a champion specifically for jungling. There is also the issue that laning and jungling requires vastly different builds/stats. Thats why when people tried taking traditional junglers and their into lane it´s murderous sustain - warwick, udyr, wriggles are the most prominent examples. Pots as well, plenty junglebuilds NEED cloth+5pot.

That's not an argument for anything, lol.

Jungler vs non-jungler is usually identical builds except for wriggles. Laners might get a few dblades, but that's about it. Starting items are pretty irrelevant, too. Some lanes need cloth 5 pot. Some lanes need boots 3 pot. Some junglers go boots 3 pots or vampiric sceptor. The vast majority of solos start boots 3 pots, the vast majority of AD start dblades (and those who don't are usually cloth 5 or boots 3, notice a pattern?) and the vast majority of supports start faerie charm, 3 wards, 2 pots. This is not an issue. You will never, nor should you ever, have completely unique builds (especially at the start of the game) for every champion in every situation. There's already a high degree of tailoring your opening based on what you're laning against.
twitch.tv/cratonz
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-26 16:13:53
November 26 2011 16:07 GMT
#2555
Not to mention, jungling isn't really that rune-dependent with the new masteries. Jungling at summoner level 10-15 even on less-conventional junglers is perfectly reasonable now.The barrier to entry with jungling has much more to do with how low level teams play with junglers (in particular, the 1v2 lane), rather than how hard doing the jungle is.

On November 27 2011 00:45 Unentschieden wrote:
1/4th is actually pretty poor. It means you need to select a champion specifically for jungling. There is also the issue that laning and jungling requires vastly different builds/stats. Thats why when people tried taking traditional junglers and their into lane it´s murderous sustain - warwick, udyr, wriggles are the most prominent examples. Pots as well, plenty junglebuilds NEED cloth+5pot.

Why is this a problem?

If I took my 30 armor runepage for a top laner into mid lane, it would be drastically less useful. Go figure.

And as others have stated, 24% of the champ pool being common junglers is way better than how much of the pool can be reasonably be played in any other role.
Moderator
Noocta
Profile Joined June 2010
France12578 Posts
November 26 2011 16:16 GMT
#2556
On November 27 2011 00:45 Unentschieden wrote:
1/4th is actually pretty poor. It means you need to select a champion specifically for jungling. There is also the issue that laning and jungling requires vastly different builds/stats. Thats why when people tried taking traditional junglers and their into lane it´s murderous sustain - warwick, udyr, wriggles are the most prominent examples. Pots as well, plenty junglebuilds NEED cloth+5pot.


Let's talk about the fact that there is less than 10 champions viable as support then.
" I'm not gonna fight you. I'm gonna kick your ass ! "
BlackPaladin
Profile Joined May 2010
United States9316 Posts
November 26 2011 16:17 GMT
#2557
On November 27 2011 01:03 sob3k wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 27 2011 00:54 BlackPaladin wrote:
Yeah man, not being able to play kassadin as a ranged AD carry is a design flaw to me.


Manamune brutalizer BT Kass all day long

stack that R


How is that ranged, bro?
"Your full potential does not matter if you do not use all 100% of it."
Unentschieden
Profile Joined August 2007
Germany1471 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-26 16:35:15
November 26 2011 16:31 GMT
#2558
FYI the masteries are supposed to work in conjunction to the new jungle. Do you really think lvl4 at 3:30 would last long?

The problem with different laning and jungling requirements is the collision when you take one to the other. Wriggles is intended as jungling item but plenty laners use it for infinite sustain. And in turn without in depht research your first try to jungle will most likely result in you dying to creeps - that is quite a bit different than a suboptimal runepage when laning.

The comparison is sololane, jungler and duo lane. Sustain supports have had numerous nerfs to make having nonhealers in the botlane valid.

On November 27 2011 01:16 Noocta wrote:
Let's talk about the fact that there is less than 10 champions viable as support then.


Shure it´s an issue. But we already see experiments with non-standart supports bot already, partly with picking up heal summoner. Maybe the pot nerf will make healers better - but it might also make offensive support better because damage "sticks" better.
rigwarl
Profile Joined January 2011
United States540 Posts
November 26 2011 16:33 GMT
#2559
Only like ~5 different champions are frequently picked as support
Inschato
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
Canada1349 Posts
November 26 2011 16:47 GMT
#2560
On November 27 2011 01:33 rigwarl wrote:
Only like ~5 different champions are frequently picked as support


Common: Soraka, Sona, Alistar, Janna, Taric
Uncommon: Blitzcrank, Galio, Leona, Nidalee
Rare: Lux, Yorick, GP, Ashe(lol), Nunu
Extremely Rare: Karma, Fiddlesticks

I think that about covers it.
3.
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