EPT[Patch 1.0.0.129: Fizz] General Discussion - Page 128
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SnK-Arcbound
United States4423 Posts
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freelander
Hungary4707 Posts
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Hynda
Sweden2226 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
Also, I just bought Janna. Was fun when I tried her but I tended to fail since she's not quite the other supports. Any good stream to watch? I tried some support players' streams but it was things like Nyph playing Karth so... ^^' | ||
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Craton
United States17250 Posts
On November 26 2011 15:38 Treadmill wrote: Guinsoo's post, for me, makes a lot of sense. It also shows that hey, the people at Riot actually have some idea what their doing and thinks pretty carefully about changes to their game. If anything, it shows the opposite. They think there's a problem because somehow someone got it repeated enough that they've accepted it as fact, but when you compare what they say is going to happen vs what will actually happen there's a complete disconnect. Again, remember the Kayle "buff?" Lets not even mention all the horribly overpowered champions they've released as if they hadn't spent an hour testing. Fact of the matter is that Riot has a very poor track record when it comes to dealing with game balance internally. Most of their staff is very low rated and the game balance suffers greatly because of it. Invariably, either out of incompetence or negligence, things have to go live before they will accept just how imbalanced or broken something is. Even when it comes out balanced, they knee-jerk over-buff or over-nerf it most of the time. Why should jungle 0.2 be any different, especially when even the testers are saying how bad it is? | ||
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Hynda
Sweden2226 Posts
On November 26 2011 23:03 Alaric wrote: and redditI guess you're talking about official forums? Also, I just bought Janna. Was fun when I tried her but I tended to fail since she's not quite the other supports. Any good stream to watch? I tried some support players' streams but it was things like Nyph playing Karth so... ^^' | ||
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Hynda
Sweden2226 Posts
On November 26 2011 23:10 Craton wrote: If anything, it shows the opposite. They think there's a problem because somehow someone got it repeated enough that they've accepted it as fact, but when you compare what they say is going to happen vs what will actually happen there's a complete disconnect. Again, remember the Kayle "buff?" Lets not even mention all the horribly overpowered champions they've released as if they hadn't spent an hour testing. Fact of the matter is that Riot has a very poor track record when it comes to dealing with game balance internally. Most of their staff is very low rated and the game balance suffers greatly because of it. Invariably, either out of incompetence or negligence, things have to go live before they will accept just how imbalanced or broken something is. Even when it comes out balanced, they knee-jerk over-buff or over-nerf it most of the time. Why should jungle 0.2 be any different, especially when even the testers are saying how bad it is? I heard xerath needed buffs LOL | ||
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Unentschieden
Germany1471 Posts
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Craton
United States17250 Posts
Common junglers: Amumu, Fiddle, GP, Jarvan, Lee Sin, Malphite, Master Yi, Maokai, Nocturne, Nunu, Olaf, Rammus, Riven, Shaco, Shyvana, Skarner, Trundle, Tryndamere, Udyr, Warwick, Xin Zhao Uncommon, but used even in tournaments: Alistar, Blitz, Cho Plus several others who can jungle well since mastery changes like Panth, Rumble, Twitch, Nasus, etc.. Even just counting the common junglers, that's 21. 24% of all champions are common jungler picks. Considering there are 5 roles and that's counting only common junglers, there are tons of junglers right now. If you want to address weaknesses of particular ones then you buff the champ, not rape the jungle. | ||
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Unentschieden
Germany1471 Posts
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Lanzoma
Mexico813 Posts
Surely we must rework those roles too. | ||
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BlackPaladin
United States9316 Posts
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sob3k
United States7572 Posts
On November 27 2011 00:54 BlackPaladin wrote: Yeah man, not being able to play kassadin as a ranged AD carry is a design flaw to me. Manamune brutalizer BT Kass all day long stack that R | ||
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Craton
United States17250 Posts
On November 27 2011 00:45 Unentschieden wrote: 1/4th is actually pretty poor. It means you need to select a champion specifically for jungling. There is also the issue that laning and jungling requires vastly different builds/stats. Thats why when people tried taking traditional junglers and their into lane it´s murderous sustain - warwick, udyr, wriggles are the most prominent examples. Pots as well, plenty junglebuilds NEED cloth+5pot. That's not an argument for anything, lol. Jungler vs non-jungler is usually identical builds except for wriggles. Laners might get a few dblades, but that's about it. Starting items are pretty irrelevant, too. Some lanes need cloth 5 pot. Some lanes need boots 3 pot. Some junglers go boots 3 pots or vampiric sceptor. The vast majority of solos start boots 3 pots, the vast majority of AD start dblades (and those who don't are usually cloth 5 or boots 3, notice a pattern?) and the vast majority of supports start faerie charm, 3 wards, 2 pots. This is not an issue. You will never, nor should you ever, have completely unique builds (especially at the start of the game) for every champion in every situation. There's already a high degree of tailoring your opening based on what you're laning against. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On November 27 2011 00:45 Unentschieden wrote: 1/4th is actually pretty poor. It means you need to select a champion specifically for jungling. There is also the issue that laning and jungling requires vastly different builds/stats. Thats why when people tried taking traditional junglers and their into lane it´s murderous sustain - warwick, udyr, wriggles are the most prominent examples. Pots as well, plenty junglebuilds NEED cloth+5pot. Why is this a problem? If I took my 30 armor runepage for a top laner into mid lane, it would be drastically less useful. Go figure. And as others have stated, 24% of the champ pool being common junglers is way better than how much of the pool can be reasonably be played in any other role. | ||
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Noocta
France12578 Posts
On November 27 2011 00:45 Unentschieden wrote: 1/4th is actually pretty poor. It means you need to select a champion specifically for jungling. There is also the issue that laning and jungling requires vastly different builds/stats. Thats why when people tried taking traditional junglers and their into lane it´s murderous sustain - warwick, udyr, wriggles are the most prominent examples. Pots as well, plenty junglebuilds NEED cloth+5pot. Let's talk about the fact that there is less than 10 champions viable as support then. | ||
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BlackPaladin
United States9316 Posts
On November 27 2011 01:03 sob3k wrote: Manamune brutalizer BT Kass all day long stack that R How is that ranged, bro? | ||
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Unentschieden
Germany1471 Posts
The problem with different laning and jungling requirements is the collision when you take one to the other. Wriggles is intended as jungling item but plenty laners use it for infinite sustain. And in turn without in depht research your first try to jungle will most likely result in you dying to creeps - that is quite a bit different than a suboptimal runepage when laning. The comparison is sololane, jungler and duo lane. Sustain supports have had numerous nerfs to make having nonhealers in the botlane valid. On November 27 2011 01:16 Noocta wrote: Let's talk about the fact that there is less than 10 champions viable as support then. Shure it´s an issue. But we already see experiments with non-standart supports bot already, partly with picking up heal summoner. Maybe the pot nerf will make healers better - but it might also make offensive support better because damage "sticks" better. | ||
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rigwarl
United States540 Posts
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Inschato
Canada1349 Posts
On November 27 2011 01:33 rigwarl wrote: Only like ~5 different champions are frequently picked as support Common: Soraka, Sona, Alistar, Janna, Taric Uncommon: Blitzcrank, Galio, Leona, Nidalee Rare: Lux, Yorick, GP, Ashe(lol), Nunu Extremely Rare: Karma, Fiddlesticks I think that about covers it. | ||
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