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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
On November 04 2011 05:21 TheKefka wrote: It's funny because most of the OP champs aren't even on that list.WE NEED MORE BANS ZOMG: wait, why would you ban OP champs? better to just ban annoying assholes who piss you off IMO. | ||
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TheKefka
Croatia11752 Posts
On November 04 2011 05:23 Mogwai wrote: wait, why would you ban OP champs? better to just ban annoying assholes who piss you off IMO. touché Than Zilean gets my ban.That little bastard. | ||
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
edit: why would you really need armor pen reds anyway? you rip though the jungle incredibly fast with just AS reds. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On November 04 2011 05:11 trollbone wrote: i think its enough because i think nowadays there is no extremely op champions, the game seems well balanced, a lot of viable picks. We shouldnt have more than 4 bans because there is 90 champs, i dont think this is a valid argument. I think the current bans are fine for solo queue where you're playing with randoms and the only real reason to ban stuff is to ban annoying shit you don't want to play against (the likelihood of picking a coherent team-comp/making effective counterpicks is virtually zero when everyone is just playing whatever the hell they want). But for arranged/tournament play, we need more bans/a second banning phase, because as it stands, people either don't have enough bans to ban strategically against their opponent, or it's pointless because they're blindly guessing at what bans are actually going to be disruptive to the enemy's strategy when nobody's picked anything yet. Bans should carry a strategic element in tournament play, but right now they have very little of that because removing stuff like Hotshot's Cho'gath or keeping Talon out of the champion pool take priority so there's not enough bans left to really ban strategically. | ||
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trollbone
France1905 Posts
On November 04 2011 05:21 TheKefka wrote: It's funny because most of the OP champs aren't even on that list.WE NEED MORE BANS ZOMG: they arent OP, sion wasnt touch for monthhhhhh he is just the FOtm, karthus,garen,riven,poppy (lol), yorrick are not ban worthy. Shaco and fiddle are strong but they are not OP maybe you dislike playing against them but they are not counterbale and have their streght and weakness Remember the good ol days were sona was shitting on everybody, when xin, udyr, gp, etc .. were so strong that they were banned ALL the times Riot just has to balance the game and we shouldnt need more than 4 bans edit : @ yango yeah for competitive play its different, 6 bans are good but 8 bans could offer some possibility (bans every support ??) | ||
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JackDino
Gabon6219 Posts
On November 04 2011 05:21 trollbone wrote: basically you need armor on every jungler that transition into a tank : Chogath, skarner, amumu, malphite, rammus, nunu, udyr, etc... Mid to lategame that 10 armour you get from yellows on a tank isn't gonna matter lol. I jungle both rammus and udyr with dodge instead of armour. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On November 04 2011 05:32 JackDino wrote: Mid to lategame that 10 armour you get from yellows on a tank isn't gonna matter lol. I jungle both rammus and udyr with dodge instead of armour. Dodge is good on Udyr because he has natural dodge, and dodge is a self-synergistic stat. Armor is arguably better on Rammus because it's straight-up better than Dodge on him for the early game, which rune choice matters more for. It speeds your jungle up by scaling into your AD/DBC damage, while Dodge actually has the potential to slow you down because damage isn't reflected by DBC on dodged hits. | ||
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JackDino
Gabon6219 Posts
On November 04 2011 05:34 TheYango wrote: Dodge is good on Udyr because he has natural dodge, and dodge is a self-synergistic stat. Armor is arguably better on Rammus because it's straight-up better than Dodge on him for the early game, which rune choice matters more for. It speeds your jungle up by scaling into your AD/DBC damage, while Dodge actually has the potential to slow you down because damage isn't reflected by DBC on dodged hits. The difference between armour and dodge on rammus is like really really small, I ran both and I just prefer dodge for outside the jungle. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On November 04 2011 05:35 JackDino wrote: The difference between armour and dodge on rammus is like really really small, I ran both and I just prefer dodge for outside the jungle. I think saving 4-5 seconds in your first jungle clear is more influential than the late-game difference between dodge and armor, but whatever. | ||
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Cuddle
Sweden1345 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/BipEy.jpg) I love you Shushei!!! <3 /brag | ||
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
On November 04 2011 05:35 JackDino wrote: The difference between armour and dodge on rammus is like really really small, I ran both and I just prefer dodge for outside the jungle. I use a full Armor page on Jungle Rammus. It speeds things up because wolves/wraiths just murder themselves on DBC (the small Wraiths will literally 100-0 themselves by the end of DBC), and it makes for hilarious counter-jungling potential against AD junglers. Nothing like Shaco trying to pounce on you at Red/Golems and just get destroyed because you have freaking 146 armor in DBC, auto for 100 damage and return 45 freaking damage every time he attacks you. | ||
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trollbone
France1905 Posts
You need also to not take dodge masteries if u dont plan to take dodge runes and the contrary if u take the dodge runes | ||
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JackDino
Gabon6219 Posts
On November 04 2011 05:41 Seuss wrote: I use a full Armor page on Jungle Rammus. It speeds things up because wolves/wraiths just murder themselves on DBC (the small Wraiths will literally 100-0 themselves by the end of DBC), and it makes for hilarious counter-jungling potential against AD junglers. Nothing like Shaco trying to pounce on you at Red/Golems and just get destroyed because you have freaking 146 armor in DBC, auto for 100 damage and return 45 freaking damage every time he attacks you. Wanted to try this once because it sounded really good on paper but couldn't get anyone to help me pull in a custom lol. On November 04 2011 05:44 trollbone wrote: well dodge is competely RNG, the runes are here to help u jungle faster, or stay in the jungle more before to go back. I prefer + 13 armor than 7% dodge (?) You need also to not take dodge masteries if u dont plan to take dodge runes and the contrary if u take the dodge runes Most highlvl junglers disagree with this. | ||
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trollbone
France1905 Posts
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JackDino
Gabon6219 Posts
Dan Dinh actually runs dodge yellows on amumu but he uses armour reds aswell. | ||
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trollbone
France1905 Posts
we are talking specifically about the dodge - armor question on yellow, and the vast majority of time they use armor | ||
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JackDino
Gabon6219 Posts
On November 04 2011 05:55 trollbone wrote: well we dont also, i have MS quint on skarner, magic pen on amumu, etc .. we are talking specifically about the dodge - armor question on yellow, and the vast majority of time they use armor On November 04 2011 05:44 trollbone wrote: well dodge is competely RNG, the runes are here to help u jungle faster, or stay in the jungle more before to go back. I prefer + 13 armor than 7% dodge (?) You need also to not take dodge masteries if u dont plan to take dodge runes and the contrary if u take the dodge runes That's not what you said. Magicpen is pretty useless on amumu, junglecreeps have no mres and the mpen does almost nothing for amumu mid-lategame. | ||
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Haasts
New Zealand4445 Posts
She wasn't one of the AD carries more comfortable in a solo lane (Corki/Miss Fortune; Sivir to an extent), but I see her very infrequently compared with Vayne/Caitlin/Kog'maw/Ezreal/Ashe/Graves. She'll pop up sporadically in tournaments (more popular in Europe, or is this an illusion created entirely by CandyPanda?), but rarely do anything breathtaking - I think IEM NY had a game where SK had her and Kass to brutally chase down stragglers after a dragon/blue fight, but that's all that springs to mind. She's got a decent lategame with her range and her steroid, but not on Kog's level - she's a bit more self-reliant safety-wise with her jump and her ult as an anti-dive. What's holding her back? Is it her AP ratios, the reward for being aggressive with her rocket jump not worth the risk with bruiser-heavy team fights, her healing debuff being devalued with the healing/sustain nerfs, or simply not matching the lustre of all the 6300 IP ranged ADs? Who does she lane well with/against, what comps does she synergise with, etc? | ||
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ArC_man
United States2798 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On November 04 2011 05:50 JackDino wrote: Theoddone actually used to run dodge yellows when he jungled GP because it was better mid-lategame. Saintvicious always gets more arp than he needs because he needs it midgame etc etc, they don't rune purely for jungle. Dan Dinh actually runs dodge yellows on amumu but he uses armour reds aswell. On most junglers, I think the tradeoff between dodge and armor is about even. On Rammus (which is what my particular interjection was about, and what the discussion is related to) where armor translates into extra AD and DBC damage, and dodge translates into occasionally reduced DBC damage on dodge procs, I think the advantages of armor are more noticeable. Saint, Oddone, and Dan all use armor on their respective Rammus pages. On November 04 2011 05:58 Haasts wrote: How's Tristana doing at the moment? She wasn't one of the AD carries more comfortable in a solo lane (Corki/Miss Fortune; Sivir to an extent), but I see her very infrequently compared with Vayne/Caitlin/Kog'maw/Ezreal/Ashe/Graves. She'll pop up sporadically in tournaments (more popular in Europe, or is this an illusion created entirely by CandyPanda?), but rarely do anything breathtaking - I think IEM NY had a game where SK had her and Kass to brutally chase down stragglers after a dragon/blue fight, but that's all that springs to mind. She's got a decent lategame with her range and her steroid, but not on Kog's level - she's a bit more self-reliant safety-wise with her jump and her ult as an anti-dive. What's holding her back? Is it her AP ratios, the reward for being aggressive with her rocket jump not worth the risk with bruiser-heavy team fights, her healing debuff being devalued with the healing/sustain nerfs, or simply not matching the lustre of all the 6300 IP ranged ADs? Who does she lane well with/against, what comps does she synergise with, etc? Trist has a different power curve than the other common AD carries right now. She is a strong laner, and has some of the best late-game damage output in the game, but her kit doesn't translate as well into midgame fights, so unlike other AD carries that have abilities with powerful baseline damage that make them strong in fights even before their big AD items come out, Trist has a gap in power after early laning but before her BF item is finished. It doesn't make her unplayable but it does mean you have to plan around that gap when picking her. | ||
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