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Want to rage about your latest loss? Use the QQ thread. If you whine in GD, you'll get warned. - Neo, 9:49 KST, Nov 9th | ||
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JackDino
Gabon6219 Posts
On November 02 2011 04:20 LoCicero wrote: Solo queue is like the definition of pub play. I would know because according to Saintvicious I'm a "pub stomper who can only play three champs." Learn 1 moar and you'll be as good as hotshot! | ||
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FieryBalrog
United States1381 Posts
On November 02 2011 04:16 ArC_man wrote: BW was not built for "baddies" and "scrubs", 12 years ago Blizzard wasn't catering to casuals (I don't even think that term even existed). You're completely wrong. 12 years ago "baddies and scrubs" is ALL that existed in RTS. Progaming did not exist, most of the Blizzard designers were sub-BGH level players who had no idea how the game would be played. They were just brilliant game designers. People seriously completely miss how most people who are not on TL talk about Starcraft. To them, it was a cool game where you killed aliens or played as some aliens and built photon cannon gardens and never went on Battle.net. Listen to most gaming podcasts that ever mention BW, to them going on Battle.net was hardcore. And that's among the enthusiast press. | ||
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phyvo
United States5635 Posts
On November 02 2011 04:05 Unentschieden wrote: LoL does make a conscious effort to make supports in lane more proactive, healing in general has been nerfed since release basically. The meta has momentum though and it´s going to take a while until people won´t rage over something like a support Ashe. Funny you mention that, I played a support ashe game and it made a shaco so mad when he got me next queue he insta-afked. Didn't even dodge. | ||
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Sabin010
United States1892 Posts
On November 02 2011 04:19 JackDino wrote: How exactly do you pull a lane anyways? Just let the enemy kill one minion in your wave and it begins to push on to your side. Then you zone him off the minions until it pushes up to your tower with a fuck ton of minions. The only thing is if you get ganked while the minions are built up you could lose the tower. | ||
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SHr3DD3r
Pakistan2137 Posts
On November 02 2011 04:20 JackDino wrote: Learn 1 moar and you'll be as good as hotshot! SV is just jealous that you beat him duh.... But yea Jackdino is right. lol | ||
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Phunkapotamus
United States496 Posts
On November 02 2011 03:46 Mogwai wrote: I disagree. It's extremely easy to secure a win against mechanically worse enemies. You just can't do it with mechanics alone. You need to know how to leverage a mechanical advantage. The advantage you get from pure mechanical dominance isn't enough to matter much in LoL. This is partly because the game has a very very low mechanical skill ceiling. Combining mechanical dominance with strategy is a different story. I think everyone can agree that LoL is much much more about your decisive ability than anything else. I think the argument people have is that they wish LoL rewarded mechanical skill more than it does. As someone who likes twitch gameplay, I agree. LoL simply does not offer enough technical mechanics. The ones that do exist aren't appealing to me- I'd rather have more stuff to click on and tweak out with. This is why I enjoy playing characters with skillshots or highlyspammable abilities. Don't you feel slow playing Jarman Mogwai? Don't you wish you could wavedash all over the place? What if you could L-cancel your autoattack? Imagine if such mechanics existed in LoL: you'd find that technical skill would become a much much much bigger factor in the outcome of a game than it does now. A lot of TL-folk would skyrocket in ELO because of our technical abilities. A lot of nubs with inflated ELO would drop like a rock. People with poor strategy, but high technical ability would be promoted. | ||
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FieryBalrog
United States1381 Posts
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
On November 02 2011 04:29 Phunkapotamus wrote: The advantage you get from pure mechanical dominance isn't enough to matter much in LoL. This is partly because the game has a very very low mechanical skill ceiling. Combining mechanical dominance with strategy is a different story. I think everyone can agree that LoL is much much more about your decisive ability than anything else. I think the argument people have is that they wish LoL rewarded mechanical skill more than it does. As someone who likes twitch gameplay, I agree. LoL simply does not offer enough technical mechanics. The ones that do exist aren't appealing to me- I'd rather have more stuff to click on and tweak out with. This is why I enjoy playing characters with skillshots or highlyspammable abilities. Don't you feel slow playing Jarman Mogwai? Don't you wish you could wavedash all over the place? What if you could L-cancel your autoattack? Imagine if such mechanics existed in LoL: you'd find that individual skill would become a much much much bigger factor in the outcome of a game than it does now. A lot of TL-folk would skyrocket in ELO because of our technical abilities. A lot of nubs with inflated ELO would drop like a rock. But why does he need all that shit? He can stomp people simply by knowing his champs limits, their champs limits, and how lane mechanics work. He gets all the benefits of mechanical play without having to click a billion different times. This game rewards KNOWING how to do shit, not being able to do shit. Anyone can learn to click shit really fast. Its much harder to have to learn an entire game system, then be able to make correct judgement calls every 15 seconds. | ||
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freelander
Hungary4707 Posts
why doesnt it happen automatically? | ||
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JackDino
Gabon6219 Posts
On November 02 2011 04:33 freelander wrote: if you have to L-cancel every autoattack then what's the point of it? why doesnt it happen automatically? The point is if you can't do it you lose, if you make something useless happen automatically then noobs will be able to win ofc. If you want to be good mechanically and click a lot just go play a guitar or violin lol. | ||
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overt
United States9006 Posts
On November 02 2011 03:35 IntoTheWow wrote: How did Saint run her? Anyone knows? 21/0/9 cloth + 5 pots? Runes? pure AS + Armor + Arpen? He ran 21/0/9, cloth + 5pot, had his mid pull wolves and did those first. Had his support pull blue then after getting blue went wraiths -> double golem -> red. His skill order was WQWEWR. I'm not sure on runes. I'm going to assume he went with AS/Armor with some Arpen probably in there as you suggested but I didn't happen to see his runepage so I'm not positive. | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
On November 02 2011 04:29 Phunkapotamus wrote: The advantage you get from pure mechanical dominance isn't enough to matter much in LoL. This is partly because the game has a very very low mechanical skill ceiling. Combining mechanical dominance with strategy is a different story. I think everyone can agree that LoL is much much more about your decisive ability than anything else. I think the argument people have is that they wish LoL rewarded mechanical skill more than it does. As someone who likes twitch gameplay, I agree. LoL simply does not offer enough technical mechanics. The ones that do exist aren't appealing to me- I'd rather have more stuff to click on and tweak out with. This is why I enjoy playing characters with skillshots or highlyspammable abilities. Don't you feel slow playing Jarman Mogwai? Don't you wish you could wavedash all over the place? What if you could L-cancel your autoattack? Imagine if such mechanics existed in LoL: you'd find that technical skill would become a much much much bigger factor in the outcome of a game than it does now. A lot of TL-folk would skyrocket in ELO because of our technical abilities. A lot of nubs with inflated ELO would drop like a rock. People with poor strategy, but high technical ability would be promoted. I'm pretty content just dunking on people. I don't care if it doesn't take the same level of finger speed that 0-deathing a fox takes. Basically, this: vvvvv On November 02 2011 04:33 freelander wrote: if you have to L-cancel every autoattack then what's the point of it? why doesnt it happen automatically? Like, the mechanical barrier is pretty pointless. Sure, it lets me be better than someone who's not as good at it as I am, but with something binary like l-canceling, where succeeding is 100% better than not 100% of the time, it's a completely arbitrary mechanical barrier. These barriers are neither good nor bad IMO, they just are. I don't mind them, and can even enjoy them to an extent, but you can't point them out to me and think that I'm going to think they're objectively better. Ok, they give me more things to spaz out on the controller with, but in many ways this is a distraction from the actual gameplay. For instance, if I can beat someone on pure mechanics, that means it's THAT much harder to find a real game where the underlying strategy factors into the outcome of the game instead of just brute forcing a victory with pure mechanics. In a game like melee, where the mechanics are so beautiful and creative, that's one thing, but in LoL, I don't miss those arbitrary mechanical boundries because it lets me ruin people via superior strategy and execution of that strategy rather than hitting more l-cancels. | ||
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red_b
United States1267 Posts
phunk has it. it is easy to dominate a bad player. it is much, much harder for a really good player to dominate one that is only merely good. and that, I'm afraid, is a failure of game design if the game is to be competitive. and I never suggested that solo queue was not pub play although it is hardly the same as a normal game by design. I merely brought it up because there are flaws with that too. and even more amusing is that for many of you who disagree with me the reason I am wrong seems to be that I am stupid in some shape or form, or bad, or something like that. spinesheath I'm especially disappointed in you. I have laned against you with a really, really bad matchup and you still couldn't make me leave the lane because I didn't give you the opportunities. And I will freely admit you are a better player than I am. why is it wrong that I think he ought to have gained more of an advantage? and I'm not an imbecile, it is merely an insular and defensive group of players who have lost sight of that that are getting very angry that someone might have criticisms they developed after investing time in a game and really giving it a chance because he wanted so badly for it to rekindle the feelings he had playing dota allstars. and TL might have a more skilled LoL constituency than the general community but it's hardly smarter or better mannered. | ||
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crate
United States2474 Posts
On November 02 2011 04:33 freelander wrote: if you have to L-cancel every autoattack then what's the point of it? why doesnt it happen automatically? One of my personaly biggest gripes with Melee^. (There is some strategic depth in L-canceling actually in that you can lightshield or use other hitboxes like Sheik's needles or Brinstar breakable terrain to cause different-from-normal hitlag and try to throw off your opponent's timing, but personally I'd argue that this isn't a compelling enough reason to require people to press a button to halve the lag on their aerials. However Melee is not a clear-cut case since the game is not obviously designed to be as mechanically simple as possible, so this is personal preference instead of a definite design flaw.) Of course the other big difference is simply that fighting games often are games designed around rewarding mechanical skill (you can simplify the inputs for a lot of moves in nearly any non-Smash fighter; Smash itself is pretty simple as far as individual actions go though) whereas LoL is specifically designed to not have more-complicated-than-necessary inputs. Certainly if we go to an extreme and look at a game like Guitar Hero ... there's basically no strategy in GH: it's almost entirely mechanical skill. And that's fine, if you're looking for a mechanically-demanding game. On the other extreme you have games that take zero mechanical skill like Chess or Go. Those are also fine, as long as you're not looking for a mechanically-demanding game. If you're looking for a mechanically-demanding game and you're playing LoL though, you are probably playing the wrong game. I think it's pretty clear Riot likes individual actions to be generally as simple-to-execute as possible. edit: If you dislike Riot's design philosophy, then quite simply you're playing the wrong game. I think there's definitely a big enough skill gap to make the game interesting competitively, and personally I really like Riot's decision to not include stuff like denying or mana burn in LoL. | ||
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
On November 02 2011 04:20 JackDino wrote: Learn 1 moar and you'll be as good as hotshot! Odd One said, when trying to guess who was on the enemy team (someone picked riven) "Locicero? I dunno, Locicero plays everything." | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On November 02 2011 04:22 FieryBalrog wrote: You're completely wrong. 12 years ago "baddies and scrubs" is ALL that existed in RTS. Progaming did not exist, most of the Blizzard designers were sub-BGH level players who had no idea how the game would be played. They were just brilliant game designers. People seriously completely miss how most people who are not on TL talk about Starcraft. To them, it was a cool game where you killed aliens or played as some aliens and built photon cannon gardens and never went on Battle.net. Listen to most gaming podcasts that ever mention BW, to them going on Battle.net was hardcore. And that's among the enthusiast press. He was talking about WoW. AND FUCKING HOW. If you didn't devote 40 hours a week to raiding at minimum, you were terrible. | ||
NonY
8748 Posts
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overt
United States9006 Posts
On November 02 2011 04:52 Liquid`Tyler wrote: reginald and odee (owner of dignitas) gonna be on mlg.tv today at 5pm EST to talk about wcg usa dat drama I'm usually really up for talking about drama and shit but in this particular instance I'm actually pretty burnt out of this whole drama. Yeah, it sucks, yeah Dignitas shouldn't be going to Korea but it's all pretty much over now. I don't know why Reginald isn't going to just let it die. | ||
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mordek
United States12704 Posts
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
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