EPT[Patch 1.0.0.127: Graves] General Discussion - Page 43
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Southlight
United States11768 Posts
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
HoG I can see the argument against, though. On soraka, maybe philo stone is unnecessary but CDR is so stupid good on her for sustain now that shurleyas seems like a good item again. You can just replace hog with kindlegem and then for a small price you're getting a lot of good stats and shurelyas active. | ||
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HazMat
United States17077 Posts
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Southlight
United States11768 Posts
the people arguing over the importance of gold/10 items! But of course, the carries and bruisers would know better, because we all know it's the bad players that play support. On October 22 2011 04:54 HazMat wrote: You're also completely ignoring the fact that Philo allows supports to open faeri charm and get 3 wards at lvl1. Dring or boots 1st builds don't allow that. You could start with no item though, I guess. I open pure wards on Soraka/Taric, Charm on Janna for Pstone, and depends on matchup for Sona. We've gone over this :p | ||
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Juicyfruit
Canada5484 Posts
I've felt incredibly stupid sometimes for buying heart of gold at like 20 minutes and I'm like...wtf am I doing >.> At some point in the game, minions are going to give more and more gold each that it becomes less and less justifiable to buy a GP10 item. | ||
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Southlight
United States11768 Posts
On October 22 2011 04:56 Juicyfruit wrote: Xpecial's Janna guide stated that he likes to start with 5 wards and no items on Janna. Dayum, Xpecial more baller/brave than me on Janna lol. | ||
NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On October 22 2011 04:55 Southlight wrote: Amusingly of the people arguing about this, the only people who regularly play supports are me, Spinesheath, and possibly Yango (I just remember him as Zilean player lulz). Hey, woah, that's like the delineation of I've hated bot lane support Zilean since day 1. I play almost exclusively jungle at this point, but that's irrelevant to this discussion. | ||
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Southlight
United States11768 Posts
Edit: omg Neo and Yango blowing my mind. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
On October 22 2011 04:55 Southlight wrote: Amusingly of the people arguing about this, the only people who regularly play supports are me, Spinesheath, and possibly Yango (I just remember him as Zilean player lulz). Hey, woah, that's like the delineation of the people arguing over the importance of gold/10 items! But of course, the carries and bruisers would know better, because we all know it's the bad players that play support. I open pure wards on Soraka/Taric, Charm on Janna for Pstone, and depends on matchup for Sona. We've gone over this :p Hey, hey I've got 80% win rate on soraka and sona (because they are broken as hell lololol) (also some of my soraka games are tank bait soraka in ranked 5's where I just run around and bait people to focus me with tanky runes and masteries and randuins+shurelyas rush and let carries kill ppl trololol) | ||
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BlackPaladin
United States9316 Posts
But if you're getting assists all day every day just build a good item with the gold... :x The good thing about philo though is it builds into shurelya's which is a really good item so I like to get 1 regardless of how well i'm doing. >.> It just gives you and your team so much it's silly not to have one. I didn't read everything but how did this whole gold/10 is good/bad debate come from? O_O | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On October 22 2011 05:00 BlackPaladin wrote: Uhhh, the gold/10 meta more or less is good at higher level tourny play where FB only happens 10+ mins in the game. You're not going to get many assists when they actual game itself only has 10 kills by the 20 min point lol. Again, this reasoning is flawed as it applies to supports. If you're not getting assists, then your gold income is slow. If it's slow, it means that you get your gold/10 items later, and it takes LONGER for them become cost-effective. Gold/10 is BETTER when you get early assists/global gold to buy them early, and worse when nothing is happening, and you can't get them till late and they take forever to pay off. This is slightly different from when it comes to solo laners buying gold/5 because solo laners are still farming creeps when nothing is happening. If no kills are happening, someone like Irelia will still get double gp5 before 10 minutes regardless. With supports, since you're not CSing, and buying wards/oracles, having nothing happen translates into that HoG coming in at like 15-20 minutes, which is a terrible time to buy a HoG. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
Probably something to do with it being so hard to get good ganks in tourney level play and dragon fights were less popular for some reason so nothing really happened so gold/10's made sense. | ||
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Wala.Revolution
7584 Posts
I'm with Yango with early gp5 (philo) because it turns into a most useful support item you want with stats you want but otherwise, you want efficiency because you don't get gold (not that you would want to build inefficiently on other chars anyway). Is it that hard to ask for a couple cs every now and then? + Show Spoiler + I know someone's going to comment about me taking all the farm here | ||
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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Southlight
United States11768 Posts
This is not the case for solo queue and for not-top-end-tournament 5rank. And amazingly, most people here, myself included, are not playing super high-end 5ranked games. @wala that's why you play janna or sona and "accidentally" snag creep huehuehuehuehue. | ||
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dnastyx
United States2707 Posts
I doubt there's many good support players who will say that all gold/10 items are bad. But they're not the end all be all. I just think Reverie is too damn strong to pass up in 95% of games, so my default start is Faerie+Wards(+Pots depending on matchup). HoG doesn't build into anything useful unless you're someone like Cow (maybe Taric) - in which Randuin's is pretty damn strong. There are instances where you'd want to get it on Soraka/Sona/Janna, but not often. I would much rather have worked toward WoTA, Aegis, or Abyssal, depending on the situation. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On October 22 2011 05:07 zulu_nation8 wrote: What else can you get in the first 10 minutes that's a better investment than gp/10? You don't need oracles that early, you don't need that many wards if you place them efficiently. Lv2 boots? Not really. A kindlem? You can get that later. If the game gets past 12min ish I stop buying gp/10 items but before then I spend everything I have on them and as few wards as I can get away with. Yes I still try to keep at least one ward in bot brush, and have a pink for first dragon, and start out with 3 wards, etc. This is probably the most sound rule to go by tbh. It's just sort of silly seeing supports buy a HoG at like 20 minutes into the game. | ||
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Parnage
United States7414 Posts
1. gp10 items are amazingly useful I tend to go with Philo/HoG. Because both are very very useful on supports that I play. I don't need math or numbers to know it's good. It's good because it allows me to actually take a hit because at my level everyone kills supports first not anyone else. Which is hilariously amusing. I've had a vayne chase me around the jungle instead of actually team fighting only to watch my team ace thars and the vayne chasing me into my own team to die like an idiot. Shurelias a pretty good item. HoG can be turned into Randuins which if your being focused is quite the useful thing to have. Wards and gp10 all you need besides boots. | ||
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-Zoda-
France3578 Posts
On October 22 2011 05:04 Slayer91 wrote: Gold/10 meta like originated from the idea that top, jungle, and supports gets 2 or so gold/10 items and then you stall the game not looking for too many fights and slowly get ahead while farming or something. TSM I think started or those are the guys I saw doing it first. Probably something to do with it being so hard to get good ganks in tourney level play and dragon fights were less popular for some reason so nothing really happened so gold/10's made sense. Screw long games, get like Leblanc mid, MF + Morg bot, Udyr jungle, or some other champs with strong early and rape them before they even buy g/10 items. | ||
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